Need help troubleshooting ScreenLogic's scheduling logic and PV3 Infloor Cleaning System with IntelliFlo pump

[DustonMcG]

Hey everyone, this is my first post here. I already donated because I've gained so much insight just browsing the forums as a guest over the past few days, so thank you to everyone who gives so much of their time helping us out with our problems.

My pool has only been finished for two or three weeks now but we've had issues with the ScreenLogic schedules not working properly from Day 1. I only use Mac computers so I had a heck of a time trying to get the software installed on my desktop but finally made it happen today using PlayOnMac (thanks to advice found here).

I've since learned there are a maximum of 12 schedules you can have between all of your schedules including egg timers and run-once schedules. Problem is, what I see on my panel outside is not the same what shows in my ScreenLogic software. For example, outside under Schedules the Cleaner shows a total of 2... an egg timer set to 4 hours and the schedule I set for 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM.

What happens throughout the day though is I'll notice the infloor cleaner jets popup sporadically and it seems to be almost every 20 minutes. I can tell because the "waterfall" from our spa gets much heavier when the infloor jets popup in there.

I know I have less than 12 total schedules so my scheduling is jacked up somewhere but my initial question is regarding the infloor cleaning system and why it's not running inside its scheduled window. While reading the Pentair ScreenLogic manual today I noticed a note at the bottom of the 'Circuit Functions' page that says:

"Note: Assigning Floor Cleaner function: If a multi-head (six head) in-floor cleaner system or an IntelliFlo pump is being used, assign the equipment to the ' GENERIC' circuit function, NOT the ' Floor Cleaner' function. Assigning the 'Generic' circuit function ensures that the pump will not ramp up and down every 20 minutes."

I've attached a screenshot showing how they have my Cleaner set up using the 'Floor Cleaner' circuit. Could this be the cause of the cleaner not following my schedule and running nearly every 20 minutes?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Duston,

ScreenLogic does not really have the ability to control an IFCS except by turning a valve or by controlling the pump speed. So I don't fully understand how it could be turning your IFCS on and off all day..

That said, the first thing I would try, based up your comments above, would be to set the Circuit Function back to 'generic' and see what happens.

How is your IFCS plumbed? Do you have wall returns and floor returns with a valve that either sends the return water to the floor or the wall outlets? Or do you only have floor returns?

Show us several pics of your Equipment pad so that we can get an idea of how things are plumbed.

Let's see if @proavia has any ideas...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[DustonMcG]

Thanks for the reply, Jim! I've attached some pics of my equipment pad (one of the entire pad and some zoomed-in pics so you can read the labels better).

I also included a few pics of the pool itself because I'm honestly not sure whether or not we have any wall returns. We definitely have the main central floor vacuum at the bottom in the deep end which you can see in that one pic.

In that same pic, you can also see one of the in-floor heads on a bench seat against the wall, as well as a white plastic fitting/cap of some kind. I believe the builder said that had something to do with helping the flow of the filter (venturi flow maybe??).

I will definitely try setting the Circuit Function back to 'Generic' now. I was just afraid to mess with anything before confirming with someone who actually knows what they're doing lol!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Duston,

Ok, so you have a completely separate pump for your IFCS. I assume you have some dome shaped device somewhere else in the yard that controls the IFCS.

The first thing that pops into my mind when I see two IntelliFlo pumps is the pump's com port address. Something we see all the time is that the address for both pumps are the same. Just like your house has an unique address, just for you, your pumps need a unique address. As a test, put the system into the Service mode and then go to each pump and using the pump's control panel, check to see what address each pump has.. One of the pumps should be address #1 and the other should be address #2 (or any number other than 1)

When at the pump... Menu, Settings, Device, Pump Address..

If you are not sure how to go into the Service mode, go out to the main box and your little LCD should show "Auto" . Push the Mode button and Auto will change into Service. When done... Push the mode button again and Service will change to Time-Out. Push the mode button again and the system will go back to Auto.. Do NOT panic as it may take a couple of minutes or so for things to fire back up.

You can't hurt anything doing this.

Let me know what you find..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[proavia]

I have no idea why you would want the IFCS to cycle on every 20 minutes.
While I don't have automation, my VS pump schedule is set to run the IFCS 2 hours in the AM and 2 hours in the PM.
An IFCS should be set to run long enough to cycle thru each zone multiple times per run time to best clean the pool bottom.

I'm not a fan of an IFCS that doesn't run thru the filter. You're pumping dirty water back thru the IFCS and/or waterfall. This can lead to premature wear of the IFCS moving parts.

Ask the PB to supply the plumbing plan and post it here.

How many skimmers do you have?
Why is the main pump suction and waterfall/IFCS pump suction lines both set to skimmer off?

What is a "skimmer return"? Do you have venturi skimmers?

The unmarked pipe to the left of the the 2 skimmer return pipes may be the line to wall returns. Are there any ports in the pool wall about the size of a silver dollar? Does any water dome out of these lines when the main pump is on?

Is your automation set to allow a spillover mode for at least 15 minutes twice daily? Spillover mode allows chorinated pool water to return to the spa and spillover into the pool - thereby keeping the spa chlorinated.
Or does the spa spill into the pool any time the main pump is running?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Gene,

I do not know much about IFCS, so I thought you'd be able to help.

The OP has a pump just for the IFCS, but if you use the main pool pump to run your IFCS, what make the IFCS turn on or off? It is just the pump speed or am I missing the key here??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[proavia]

Jim

In a manual setup like mine, the IFCS is always active regardless of pump speed - unless i manually change the position of my IFCS/wall returns Jandy valve. It does NOT depend on pump speed.

So, for an automation controlled pool, there would need to be an automated Jandy valve on the return side to change between IFCS and another return option. I would guess you'd set a feature circuit to ramp up the pump speed and position the Jandy valve to send return water thru the IFCS.

In the OPs pool, the second pump and plumbing does this function. If the pump turns on, either the IFCS or waterfall runs, based on the position of the automated Jandy valve on the return side of the second pump.

 

[DustonMcG]

Duston,

Ok, so you have a completely separate pump for your IFCS. I assume you have some dome shaped device somewhere else in the yard that controls the IFCS.

The first thing that pops into my mind when I see two IntelliFlo pumps is the pump's com port address. Something we see all the time is that the address for both pumps are the same. Just like your house has an unique address, just for you, your pumps need a unique address. As a test, put the system into the Service mode and then go to each pump and using the pump's control panel, check to see what address each pump has.. One of the pumps should be address #1 and the other should be address #2 (or any number other than 1)

When at the pump... Menu, Settings, Device, Pump Address..

If you are not sure how to go into the Service mode, go out to the main box and your little LCD should show "Auto" . Push the Mode button and Auto will change into Service. When done... Push the mode button again and Service will change to Time-Out. Push the mode button again and the system will go back to Auto.. Do NOT panic as it may take a couple of minutes or so for things to fire back up.

You can't hurt anything doing this.

Let me know what you find..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Forgot all about that dome thing. I attached a pic of it. I checked the addresses of the pumps and they are different… #1 and #2.

 

[DustonMcG]

I have no idea why you would want the IFCS to cycle on every 20 minutes.
While I don't have automation, my VS pump schedule is set to run the IFCS 2 hours in the AM and 2 hours in the PM.
An IFCS should be set to run long enough to cycle thru each zone multiple times per run time to best clean the pool bottom.

I'm not a fan of an IFCS that doesn't run thru the filter. You're pumping dirty water back thru the IFCS and/or waterfall. This can lead to premature wear of the IFCS moving parts.

Ask the PB to supply the plumbing plan and post it here.

How many skimmers do you have?
Why is the main pump suction and waterfall/IFCS pump suction lines both set to skimmer off?

What is a "skimmer return"? Do you have venturi skimmers?

The unmarked pipe to the left of the the 2 skimmer return pipes may be the line to wall returns. Are there any ports in the pool wall about the size of a silver dollar? Does any water dome out of these lines when the main pump is on?

Is your automation set to allow a spillover mode for at least 15 minutes twice daily? Spillover mode allows chorinated pool water to return to the spa and spillover into the pool - thereby keeping the spa chlorinated.
Or does the spa spill into the pool any time the main pump is running?

Yeah every 20 minutes is crazy. Since I switched the circuit function earlier I haven’t seen the cleaners come on today.

Unfortunately I was gone during the 2-hour window while it was supposed to be running so I’m not sure if it did or not.

I just requested a plumbing plan from the pool builder. Not sure why they would ever design the cleaner to not run through the filter.

We have two skimmers. And yes I believe we have Venturi skimmers. Maybe the main pump suction and IFCS/waterfall suction lines were set to off in those pics because they weren’t running at that time??

Yes there are smaller ports on the sides of the pool where water comes out when the main pump is on. Not sure about water doming, I’ll have to pay closer attention next time I’m out there.

Our spa does spillover into the pool any time the main pump is running.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I checked the addresses of the pumps and they are different… #1 and #2

Duston,

That is good news.. If they were the same address it could cause the problem with both pumps trying to do the same thing as the same time.

I think changing the Circuit Function will fix your problem.

If you get a chance, show me your pump speeds. You should have two pages, one for your main pump and one for your cleaner/waterfall pump. Like this..

Set up page 4.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Apr 19, 2019

I suggest that you open the skimmer valves on the suction side of your plumbing (Input to main pump). And shut off the water going to the skimmer returns. Venturi skimmers are more marketing than anything else. I'd use them a normal skimmers without any return water going to them.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[DustonMcG]

If you get a chance, show me your pump speeds. You should have two pages, one for your main pump and one for your cleaner/waterfall pump.

I suggest that you open the skimmer valves on the suction side of your plumbing (Input to main pump). And shut off the water going to the skimmer returns. Venturi skimmers are more marketing than anything else. I'd use them a normal skimmers without any return water going to them.

Okay cool, I've attached screenshots of my pump speeds. Seems odd that Pump 1 is the same as Pump 2 though??

I'll get those valves switched over too. I appreciate your help!

 

[DustonMcG]

Okay cool, I've attached screenshots of my pump speeds. Seems odd that Pump 1 is the same as Pump 2 though??

I'll get those valves switched over too. I appreciate your help!

Just to confirm I set these valves correctly could you please take a look at the attached pics when you get a chance? Thank you!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Duston,

I assume you 'fixed' the speeds for pump #2 ....

I say this because the pics I see shows that pump two will only run when the cleaner circuit is on or when the waterfall circuit is on. This makes sense to me.

When I was talking about opening the skimmers, I should have been more clear.. The only skimmers I want you to open are the ones that go to the input of your main pump. The one that routes the water through the filter. It would be ridiculously stupid to have a skimmer sending water to the in-floor pump. A skimmer's job is to skim the crud from the top of the pool water. The very last thing you want that water to do is being sent to the IFCS.

You want to open the valve that is labeled "Skimmer Suction".. This valve is connected to the main pool pump.

The Skimmer return line appear to be shut off ok.

You say you have two skimmers, but only one pipe coming into the main pump. It appears that you have a skimmer input to the cleaner/waterfall pump which does not make any sense to me. Is this just mislabeled or ???? I'd shut the "skimmer' input into your cleaner/waterfall pump off and see what happens. I'd ask the pool builder how this is supposed to work. Maybe there is something there that we can't see.

Do you three skimmers or just two skimmers. If you only have two skimmers, it would be interesting to see if one is connected to the main pool pump and the other is actually connected to the cleaner/Waterfall pump.

When you run the cleaner, where does all the dirt and debris go? Do you have some kind of additional baskets or leaf catchers or ???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[proavia]

Venturi skimmers send some return water back to the skimmer to create the venturi effect and allow some skimming even with the suction side skimmer off.

I would open to 2 skimmer returns to at least half open (45* angle) to aid the skimming action. You can open them further aslong as you are getting good circulation in the pool.

As for the suction side SKIMMER/MAIN DRAIN Jandy valves - set rthem so you get adequate skimming and adequate floor debris removal. If you have wall main drains, they should be plumbed to the cleaner pump only. You don't really want all the floor debris and dirt going thru the unfiltered cleaner pump.

How many floor drains and/or wall drains do you have?
I would think you need four total - two for the main pump and two for the cleaner pump.

 

[DustonMcG]

Duston,

I assume you 'fixed' the speeds for pump #2 ....

I say this because the pics I see shows that pump two will only run when the cleaner circuit is on or when the waterfall circuit is on. This makes sense to me.

When I was talking about opening the skimmers, I should have been more clear.. The only skimmers I want you to open are the ones that go to the input of your main pump. The one that routes the water through the filter. It would be ridiculously stupid to have a skimmer sending water to the in-floor pump. A skimmer's job is to skim the crud from the top of the pool water. The very last thing you want that water to do is being sent to the IFCS.

You want to open the valve that is labeled "Skimmer Suction".. This valve is connected to the main pool pump.

The Skimmer return line appear to be shut off ok.

You say you have two skimmers, but only one pipe coming into the main pump. It appears that you have a skimmer input to the cleaner/waterfall pump which does not make any sense to me. Is this just mislabeled or ???? I'd shut the "skimmer' input into your cleaner/waterfall pump off and see what happens. I'd ask the pool builder how this is supposed to work. Maybe there is something there that we can't see.

Do you three skimmers or just two skimmers. If you only have two skimmers, it would be interesting to see if one is connected to the main pool pump and the other is actually connected to the cleaner/Waterfall pump.

When you run the cleaner, where does all the dirt and debris go? Do you have some kind of additional baskets or leaf catchers or ???

Thanks,

Jim R.

Lol I'm honestly so confused at this point... I feel like an 8-year-old set up this entire system. I've attached some more pics showing the skimmer boxes as well as what looks to be a basket for the cleaner maybe??

 

[Jimrahbe]

Duston,

Ok, it looks to me like the cover with the clear dome under it is a filter of some type that your cleaner water has to pass through. This is good, as something has to collect the junk that gets picked up. It appears to me, that this 'filter' has to be cleaned on a routine basis..

The other two covers appear to be for your skimmers. They appear to have skimmer baskets that you need to routinely pull out with the handle and clean.

Did the pool builder walk you through any of this?

Let's see if we can get Gene back in for his opinion.. Calling @proavia

I am not a fan of venturi skimmers, as I believe that they do not work any better than normal skimmers. That is why I said to turn off the Skimmer Return valves. Gene believes that I am wrong, and wants you to open the Skimmer Return valves. I doubt it makes much difference one way or the other, so I suggest that over time you experiment with the position of the Skimmer Return valves and see if you notice any improved skimming with them on or not.

Anyway, you came here about your cleaner not being scheduled as you thought it should. Hopefully, you have found a fix for that. What else can we help you with???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Duston,

Here is a video about your skimmers. Keep in mind that it is a marketing video..

A venturi pool skimmer is 200% more powerful, reducing maintenance time

Choosing the right pool skimmer will dramtically reduce maintenance time. A venturi pool skimmer is 200% more effective than any regular skimmer.

www.1paramount.com

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Duston,

Your in-deck filter canister...

EDC - Paramount Pool & Spa Systems

The largest pool debris canister on the market. Collect more leaves and debris before it reaches your pool pump. The high capacity Equipment Debris Canister (EDC) is designed to capture more debris, reduce cleaning time and

www.1paramount.com

Jim R.

 

[proavia]

I think it's an in-deck leaf trap. It catches the debris before it gets to the pump basket?
Can you see any water flow threw that basket when only the main pump is on?
Or is it only active when the cleaner pump is on?

With only the main pump (with the filter) on, do both skimmers appear to draw in water?

With a venturi skimmer (and the "skimmer return" open partially or all the way) you can run the pump at a lower speed while still getting the same skimming action. This is because at least part of the return water creates a venturi effect in the skimmer, increasing the flow into the skimmer.

I'd still like to know how many main drains and wall drains you have.
Hope the PB comes thru with the plumbing schematic.

 

[DustonMcG]

Can you see any water flow threw that basket when only the main pump is on?
Or is it only active when the cleaner pump is on?

The water flowing through this basket is most noticeable when the cleaner pump is on.

With only the main pump (with the filter) on, do both skimmers appear to draw in water?

So I'm still pretty new to all of this stuff (2 to 3 weeks now) but I remember when we tried to hook up our manual vacuum hose inside each of the skimmer boxes, only one of them worked.

I'd still like to know how many main drains and wall drains you have.
Hope the PB comes thru with the plumbing schematic.

From what I can tell, there are 3 wall drains in the pool (you can see one in the cleaner "leaf basket" photo above) and only one on the floor which is the cleaner/vacuum. There's also what I'm assuming is a drain in the bottom of the spa as well. But our salesperson for the pool company has been great, I'm sure tomorrow (Monday) she'll send the plumbing plans over to me and I'll post them here. Thanks for the help, @proavia