Need help troubleshooting Jandy Aquapure 1400 SWCG

[Cluckr7]

Hi all,

I need a little help with what steps to take to troubleshoot an issue with my SWG, which is a 3 year old Jandy Aquapure 1400. My pool is about 21000 gal.

The main symptom is that it seems like the SWG is having a hard time “keeping up” and I need to run it at a higher percentage and longer than prior summers.

In past summers, I’ve run it at around 75% for 12 hours a day, which according to Pool Math is about 2.5 ppm of FC per day. This summer, I’ve bumped it up to 100% for 14 hours a day which is about 4 ppm FC per day and it’s still having trouble keeping up - I see a couple ppm of FC drop in weekly tests and I top off with liquid chlorine. I try to keep FC at around 7-9 ppm for my CYA of 60-70. I use TFTestkit.

My CYA is about the same - around 60-70. I can’t think of why this summer would be different except something is wrong with the cell, but it seems way too early (3 years, two full summers) for a cell to die.

I do see bubbles coming out…it seems to be working from what I can tell. Most of the time I don’t see any error codes. I have a couple times seen a No Flow code which I don’t understand because there IS flow, and it disappears after a while on its own, and most of the time when I spot check it does not show any errors. I wish it kept a log of errors vs time so I could see how often the no flow is in vs me just spot checking. I have twice seen a 120 error code but have not seen it since I descaled the cell with MA a few months ago.

Is this how SWGs fail as they age - just gradually lose productivity? Most of the forum posts I’ve found is more of a sudden zero production?

Any tips on next steps? It’s still under warranty but I don’t think my pool builder / Jandy will honor it with no error codes…though I haven’t tried.

 

[PoolGate]

What is your salt level? I suggest you try your pump 24 hours a day. That's what I do. At 53% I maintain FC of 7. And it usually needs to be turned down as it produces chlorine like crazy. I have the same one as you. Can you see in the cell if it looks like the plates are calcified? What is your CH? What is your CSI?

 

[Cluckr7]

I no longer have a 1766 salt test kit. I did two summers ago and tested it at around 3300ppm at that point. I’ve been relying on the Aquapure measurement which says 3200 ppm. I did check with a Taylor salt test strip which is hard to read but I think it is around 3000 (only has 1000 ppm increments).

I few months ago I had a pool tech clean the cell with MA when I started suspecting lower than prior FC output. I’ve attached a picture he sent me after cleaning showing the results…I haven’t fiddled with the SWG myself so not sure what I’m looking at. He said it looked “good” when he was done. My CYA does tend to trend up as my PH likes to creep up. I have a CH of around 300 and I try to add MA weekly. My PH measures 8.2 each time I test (CYA around 0.5 in summers) and I add MA to drop PH to ~7.4-7.5 (CSI of around -0.3) weekly and it creeps back up to 8.2 / +0.5 by next week. I have missed a week a few times and have noticed a couple spots on my waterline where I have some calcium scale which is why I had the pool tech do a MA descaling of the SWGC.

Are you saying crank the SWG to 100% as some sort of test, or just that I may need it that high in the summer? What I don’t understand is the change vs last two summers.

 

[wireform]

Can't see your poolmath logs but I'd do a OCLT tonight with cell off to make sure it's not trying to overcome a algae problem. Also, you can't rely on a salinity test from two years back and neither from the cell reading. If the cell is happy and not reporting low salt it's probably OK.

 

[Cluckr7]

Will do OCLT tonight.

Valid point on salt test. Do you know how the salt reading on the Aquapure work? Does it use its own reading as just a safety on / off protection for salt way too low or high? And in reality if my true salt level is maybe 2600, could that result in lower FC production?

 

[jark87]

I have the same cell, a similarly sized pool and am also in Texas - DFW area. My pool is 16 years old and I’m on my 3rd cell. I’m currently running at 45% for 14 hours. I have a single speed pump, so I don’t run 24x7.

In the past, when my cells started to fail, I’d get the “No Flow” error code intermittently. I don’t know if the cell is producing chlorine when this code is shown. If not, that would contribute to the need to increase the cell run time. My salt content reading also gets low when the cell gets older. More than a year ago, I thought my current cell was failing, but I cleaned the sensor with rubbing alcohol and haven’t had any trouble since. You should also check the cell for scale, given the No Flow error.

Last, consider adding a gallon of bleach every other week or so. A gallon gives me roughly a 3 ppm boost. I don’t add it on a regular basis, just if I want a boost without increasing my SWCG run time. Also, consider getting your CYA to 80. It will help with chlorine loss. And I’d recommend getting another Taylor salt test kit. I don’t test very often, but I like knowing that I have a correct reading. The cell sensor is usually off by about 10% - more when it starts to fail.

 

[wireform]

I believe you can calibrate it but you would have to know from what #'s and this is also where the K-1766 comes to play.

 

[jark87]

I few months ago I had a pool tech clean the cell with MA when I started suspecting lower than prior FC output. I’ve attached a picture he sent me after cleaning showing the results

I just caught this in your post. If the tech had to clean it, I would guess there was scale. Cleaning with MA can reduce the life span of the cell, especially if it was pure MA and not mixed with water.

 

[Cluckr7]

Update:

- Passed OCLT. 0 to 0.5 PPM drop overnight.

- When I checked the panel yesterday before turning off the SWG for the OCLT, it had a Service 120 code. What’s interesting is there were still good amount of bubbles coming out of the return, but must not have been much actual FC production because I actually lost FC yesterday even with the cell at 100%. This 120 error, as well as the No Flow indicator, appear to be coming and going intermittently. Wish this thing logged errors with time stamps.

I went ahead and submitted a warranty request to my pool builder.

Bought a set of AquaChek salt test strips (the titration strips). I cheaped out on the K1766, such an expensive test kit.

Are the AquaCheks accurate enough? . There were a ton of TFP posts recommending these as a good salt test back in the 2007-2011 range. My cell itself is saying 3200 salt.

 

[PoolGate]

Sounds like the cell is bad. Have you checked for corrosion at the cable connection points? Hopefully it is covered under warranty. I got my cell replaced under warranty right at almost exactly the 5 year mark with no issues from Jandy. I do suggest you get the 1766 kit. But, this isn't a salinity issue.

 

[Cluckr7]

Picture of pins attached. They seem to look pretty good to me, what do you think?

Ya we will see what the builder / Jandy says about warranty. The cell is less than 3 years old. Fingers crossed

 

[PoolGate]

It looks ok but see pic below where my center electrode failed. All three electrodes were in the process of failing. Other than that my cell looked perfect.

 

[Cluckr7]

Ah, so you have to take the cover plate off to really see. That’s confusing to me that it would corrode under the cover plate; seems like it would be a protected environment in there.

I think at this point, I’m going to let the techs take a look so I don’t do anything to inadvertently void the warranty.

 

[PoolGate]

I did a post-mortem after the cell was replaced and they did not want the cell back. It was educational to see what it inside. It is purely mechanical there are no electronics at all in the cell. If I could get the plates with the connection points I could repair this cell.

 

[Cluckr7]

So interestingly, my Aquachek salt test strips came in and my water tested at 2500 ppm salt. The salt cell still says 3200 ppm, and has a consistent 120 service fault and an intermittent no flow.

I know the AquaCheks aren’t as good as the 1766 test but thought they were fairly accurate.

I also thought that cells usually err by reading low in salt vs actual as they age, not high. So that’s puzzling. Is this correct?

Thinking about adding 750 ppm salt and seeing what happens. Isn’t 120 possibly a low salt issue? But then I assume the cell will read high…thoughts?

However, I wouldn’t think the No Flow issue would have anything to do with this right?

Got a warranty claim in, still waiting for the techs to schedule…

 

[jark87]

I wouldn’t adjust salt level based on a test strip. It’s just not accurate enough. I’d trust the pool store results over the test strip, but wouldn’t feel comfortable until I had done my own test with the Taylor kit.

As far as cell sensor discrepancies go, every cell I’ve had has read on the low side. For example, my Taylor kit result is 3400, but my cell shows 3000. I’ve never heard of a low flow error that was the result of low salt. If you haven’t tried cleaning your sensor, I’d suggest that before adding salt. It’s easy - just unscrew the sensor, wipe it off with a soft cloth and then wipe it with a small amount of rubbing alcohol. It worked for me a couple of years ago when I was getting a really low reading from my cell, but the salt level was actually above 3000. Once I cleaned the sensor, the cell reading was within 10% of actual.

Good luck with the service call!

 

[Cluckr7]

Bummer update:

Tech came and pulled the cell. There was a small bit (very small bit IMO) of scale on just the edges of the plates and the tech said Jandy would not cover it. He said anytime there is any scale or any time one of the pins is corroded out then Jandy will not approve the warranty. Said another warranty compny may feel differently and take the risk but they’ve been burned enough by Jandy that they won’t risk it. Seems pretty sketch to me if this is really Jandy’s approach as a tiny bit of scale seems inevitable.

Not sure how I will proceed. May try another warranty company. Or may just live with half the cell capacity - seems like it works in the reverse direction still, and I did an “overnight SWGC production rate test” and it seems like my SWG is producing roughly half the nameplate capacity. Absent warranty, I don’t see myself replacing the cell. Will probably just run the working half (reverse) to failure.

 

[PoolGate]

Call Jandy yourself and tell them you can't get ahold of your builder. They replaced mine 4 years and 12 months into my 5 year warranty no questions asked. I called direct.

 

[jark87]

Call Jandy yourself and tell them you can't get ahold of your builder. They replaced mine 4 years and 12 months into my 5 year warranty no questions asked. I called direct.

While I didn’t file a warranty claim myself, my builder has honored the Jandy warranty on a couple of occasions, no questions asked. Just came out and replaced the cell, once they confirmed it wasn’t producing. Never mentioned any conditions on replacement, like scale. Plus, I think the standard warranty is 3 years, but 5 years if installed by a Jandy certified pro.

 

[zzed]

I have the same cell (FSOFT1400) throwing off codes 125 and 194. What electrical checks can I do to see if the cell is a problem?

Moved from here.

Never mind. I took it apart and the middle plate is completely gone and the electrode is broke. Cell is 7+ years old. Anyone know the best place to buy a replacement?