Need advice about steps

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I don't think the rebar is necessary for just building up the bottom to make it shallower. It's not structural, like the stairs. The structural part of the pools shell has already been constructed. The added gunite just needs to stick to the existing stuff. I'm sure one of the pro will correct me if I am wrong, but that's would I expect would happen.

So yes... shallowing up the shallow end will make a steeper slope! My pool has inset anchors to attach a rope to demarcate the deep end from the shallow end. I used it when the kids were little, then took it out. You might consider something like that. I've also seen a different tile piece used on either side of the pool to identify the big drop off to your guests. I remember being in a pool like that once and forgetting the drop was there, it was like a fell into the Marianas Trench ;)
 
I think you will end up with at least some rebar because they will/should drill into and tie the existing gunite to the new gunite with rebar. And at that point, why not run some through it. Dirt cheap.
 
You can add as much concrete as you want. They need to tie into the shell with epoxy pins and connect to the existing bonding grid. Technically the weight of the new concrete will hold it together and its thick enough BUT extra attention and prep need to go into the blend to the existing sloping floor. You cant just feather a 17" slab into nothing where it blends into existing gunite. This is the crucial area that is prone to failure.
 
jimmythegreek said:
You can add as much concrete as you want. They need to tie into the shell with epoxy pins and connect to the existing bonding grid. Technically the weight of the new concrete will hold it together and its thick enough BUT extra attention and prep need to go into the blend to the existing sloping floor. You cant just feather a 17" slab into nothing where it blends into existing gunite. This is the crucial area that is prone to failure.
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@jimmythegreek as a homeowner who knows nothing about this, how can I ensure that they do this correctly? Is there a particular direction I need to give (in writing)? Do I need to hire someone to oversee this? We are having lots of trouble communicating with this company and I am really concerned about this but am not sure what to do.
 
To everyone who commented about the rebar, the pool builder is planning to add additional. We are still not seeing eye to eye on the steps though. It seems either they are unable to do math or I am unable and we can't get on the same page. They keep pushing us to keep 10" steps that are too high for us. This is so frustrating.
 
There are simple rise and run calculations available on the web. Figure out the finished height when coping goes on and the height of the pool floor when added. Plaster is thin dont bother adding that in. Then tell me how high you want the step spacing and how deep you want each step tread. Every contractor should have a cheap construction calculator in the glove box I use it all the time

The only way to ensure its done right is to pay am engineer to site survey it or someone who understands construction. Any mason would be able to tell if its proper. If it was me doing it I'd snap a chalk line at the end of the blend and cut a groove and chip away material at least 2" thick at that edge. You dont want any spots thinner than that. A bonding agent wouldnt hurt either at that cold joint
 
jimmythegreek said:
There are simple rise and run calculations available on the web. Figure out the finished height when coping goes on and the height of the pool floor when added. Plaster is thin dont bother adding that in. Then tell me how high you want the step spacing and how deep you want each step tread. Every contractor should have a cheap construction calculator in the glove box I use it all the time

The only way to ensure its done right is to pay am engineer to site survey it or someone who understands construction. Any mason would be able to tell if its proper. If it was me doing it I'd snap a chalk line at the end of the blend and cut a groove and chip away material at least 2" thick at that edge. You dont want any spots thinner than that. A bonding agent wouldnt hurt either at that cold joint
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@jimmythegreek thanks much. I will suggest they do that and try to find an engineer or someone who can assist as well. The stairs thing is incredibly silly and it's scary that they can't do this math.

I created a spreadsheet to do exactly what you describe and the builder is still arguing with me about the rise. Once we raise the shallow end we should have 46.5" from the floor of the pool to the top of the coping (42" of water + 3" of exposed tile + 1.5" coping). We currently have 4 steps plus the step down from the coping, so essentially 5 steps into the pool. He says the first step down (from the coping) must be 10" in order for the plaster on the step to be covered by the water (1.5" down from the coping + 6" tile + 2" water over the step). Take that 10" off of the 46.5" and that leaves 36.5" for the remaining 4 steps. 36.5/4 = 9.125 rise for each step. Builder is insisting each can be 7.5". I say that's impossible and to get our steps to this low of a rise we'd have to add an extra one. Is my math wrong? I don't understand why I can't make the builder understand this.
 
7.5 would require 5 steps and the top coping step down making six total. I suggest 5 steps total at 9.5 inches each nothing worst then uneven rise some people dont expect it and can trip. If you have an auto level and overflow setup properly you could do an extra step and bring the rise down to just under 8" I wouldnt worry about the bottom step being past the wall space make a platform out of the bottom step and follow pool shape either curved or straight corners to flow with pool shape. Sounds like your PB failed math class in HS
 
jimmythegreek said:
7.5 would require 5 steps and the top coping step down making six total. I suggest 5 steps total at 9.5 inches each nothing worst then uneven rise some people dont expect it and can trip. If you have an auto level and overflow setup properly you could do an extra step and bring the rise down to just under 8" I wouldnt worry about the bottom step being past the wall space make a platform out of the bottom step and follow pool shape either curved or straight corners to flow with pool shape. Sounds like your PB failed math class in HS
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@jimmythegreek We are trying to get lower than 9.5" because we have a family member with mobility issues and want him to be able to use the pool. He already has trouble with 8" interior steps. We are thinking of adding a step, so we'll have 5 steps plus the step down from the coping. All but the coping step would be about 7.3". The coping step has to be 10" per the pool builder but I am going to question that again today. He said 10" is necessary so that the top step has water but the step is starting about 2 3/4 inches under the 6" waterline tile. If the water will go to mid-tile, I don't understand why we can't raise that step a little. I agree that I want the steps to be a consistent height but I don't want them consistently 10" so we have a bit of a problem there.
 

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Your PB May come back with a concept of the water making you more boyant therefore making the taller steps easier in the pool than out of it. While there is certainly validity to that, it really only applies when probably half or more of your body is submerged. Before that gravity is working as normal. Just a heads up so you can be ready with your counter-argument to that.

But as stated above, your pool your rules. So long as theY don’t against code. I’d be less concerned about a difference in step height on the bottom step. Often that step varies both from the others and also from side to side if the depth of the pool changes along the length of the step, if that makes any sense.
 
bmoreswim said:
Your PB May come back with a concept of the water making you more boyant therefore making the taller steps easier in the pool than out of it. While there is certainly validity to that, it really only applies when probably half or more of your body is submerged. Before that gravity is working as normal. Just a heads up so you can be ready with your counter-argument to that.

But as stated above, your pool your rules. So long as theY don’t against code. I’d be less concerned about a difference in step height on the bottom step. Often that step varies both from the others and also from side to side if the depth of the pool changes along the length of the step, if that makes any sense.
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@bmoreswim oh yes, we've been educated on buoyancy already! :) When there is a mechanical issue (you literally have difficulty bending your leg to the point necessary to take the larger step), it doesn't matter. I think our PB has accepted that.
 
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Is there any way to also plan for a lift should things get worse? Perhaps having the support and electrical run now. Just a thought.
 
So this made me go out and measure my steps... I never had done that before...I have; 11inchies from the top of the deck to the first step and 12 inches to each step after that. I guess we are very buoyant people. So the first step is taken up by the thickness of the deck and spacer, the tile line and the about an inch and a half of plaster. To make the top step much smaller would require sacrificing some of the tile line and might potentially expose the plaster to the elements. Maybe that's what the PB is balking at...

Here is my idea.. Bear with me, I have the foggiest recollection of seeing something like this at some public pools that have a shallow first step into the pool, exactly for accessibility, which sounds like what you want. That "top" step was right at the waterline and always had water washing over it. It was made of a different material, I think a kind of rubber with bumps on it or textured tile, so it still had traction. Sorry it's been ages, it might even have been a public pool in Europe when I lived there as a kid. There has got to me some place that has handicap accessibility solutions that can be built into a pool. Heck they sell bar stools and picnic tables that go in the water.
 
Hes worried about the plaster on the top step. If you maintain water level with an auto fill and have an overflow in the skimmer setup high like to top of face I wouldnt have a problem with a 7.5 top step. Its your money just be aware you need a wet top step I would insist on what you want. Have him shoot a laser and mark off middle of skimmer and mark that line on step wall so you have a reference point. You wanna be a solid inch under that minimum. You can make a stick or cardboard template and see how it looks in the pool over the existing stairs
 
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