My test kit is here!

[kimkats]

If you think it is clear now...........wait until you see it when the algae is gone!

Sleep on it and see what your gut and wallet says! Let us know and we can guide you along the way.

Kim

 

[Jezza]

Hey Wheelie- just checking in- how are things going today?

 

[Wheelie]

Hi Jezza - thanks for checking in.

I've stopped the SLAM until we can resolve the ladder issue. Still losing 7 FC overnight. We had a big storm yesterday so we could;t touch the ladder. I want to remove it, husband wants to block the holes so we're looking into how to do that.

 

[kimkats]

Let him try to block them. It cannot hurt (other than sore arms from pouring bleach) for him to try.

Kim

 

[Jezza]

Ok Wheelie- just shout out if you need a hand!

 

[AUSpool]

Yes I feel like the ladder is the problem. I want to remove it - I suspect it's been there since the pool was built. I don't know how old the pool is but I reckon 20 years. I know it was here when the last people bought the house over 10 years ago.

We bought the house last May and to be honest the pool looked okay. Not crystal clear like now but pretty good. It was cold from may to October and we had algicide pool drops in pool and the last owner left solid chlorine in the skimmer so it survived. In the summer we've been using test strips and adding chlorine and it's been okay. It's only now since doing the SLAM that I can see the colour of the drainage thing in the bottom of the pool so there is a noticeable improvement.

But with the ladder there it's like throwing chlorine away.

I have to disagree with this diagnosis. I doubt you have much growing in the ladder. Algae is light dependant and there is little to no light inside the stainless steel tubing. Stainless steel in it's self is an anti microbial so bacteria growth would be reduced. It is potentially a low to anoxic environment so any anoxic bacteria growth would be limited to the zoogleal surface layer that is limited due to the anti microbial effect from the stainless steel.

l would leave your ladder as is, during you slam a higher percentage of HOCl would make its way into tubing by diffusion.

 

[kimkats]

awwwwwww so how do you explain people finding algae behind lights? As in inside the hole the light goes into where no light can get?

Kim

 

[AUSpool]

Right I've removed the light and there is algae growing inside. The light is very old and hasn't been used for years. We don't know where the switch is and nor do the previous owners so we have no idea if it's live or not - but given that there was water in the lantern and its completely rusted I assume it's not connected (I hope it's not!!).

Is there an easy and non-dangerous way to know whether it's live?

I guess we need an electrician to come and find the transformer for the lamp...

I replaced my old 90W light with a new 40W led light. You will need an electrician to hard wire the transformer or led driver as a minimum but the home owner can choose the light, just make sure it has an Australian approval or the sparky can't install it. Pool lights can be expensive, I bought an LED one on eBay for ~$150 and a new driver for around $30. you don't need a sparky for the low voltage side but since it's under water you really need to know what your doing.

The output from your old transformer to light is low voltage and not likely to be problem. Old transformers are not always wired to a switch Ive seen them plugged into a power point in a garage or into an outlet in the main power or meter board.

Steve.

 

[AUSpool]

awwwwwww so how do you explain people finding algae behind lights? As in inside the hole the light goes into where no light can get?

Kim

Light can get behind light fittings that are out in the open. Light transmission into stainless steel tubing is dramatically reduced. I'm worried that you're all telling wheelie to remove somthing that's not broken.

 

[kimkats]

I am worried about that also.............that is why I suggested they try to shoot some bleach into the holes and close them up to see if that helps her huge FC lose.

Kim

 

[AUSpool]

I am worried about that also.............that is why I suggested they try to shoot some bleach into the holes and close them up to see if that helps her huge FC lose.

Kim

I certainly mean no disrespect, forcing bleach into the holes can't hurt but I would think chlorination by diffusion would do the same.

Steve.

P.S. I care also.

 

[Wheels007]

People sharing different opinions is one of the things I really like about this forum. I've been working with pools for over 15 years and one thing I've found to be true is that a consensus from knowledge people is always better than one opinion. I think you both have reasonable and valid points.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[Jezza]

The problem is that if the algae has established itself somewhere in the ladder and developed a protective biofilm, then it will need elevated FC and probably 'mechanical' removal which could potentially hold up the SLAM.

My understanding is that algae also will grow on any surface given the right conditions and particularly in areas of low circulation - I used to have a stainless steel dog bowl that I was constantly battling with algae.

The forum is full of threads where people have found algae located in various parts of the pool including ladders which have held up their SLAMS. It appears that Wheelie's testing indicates that she is consistently losing a lot of chlorine overnight despite her elevated FC levels and a relatively clear pool. While one could assume that by scubbing/brushing the easily accessible parts of the ladder may be enough, the presence of any algae especially if it has a biofilm may put her in the above category. In the meantime she will continue to be pouring in litres of liquid chlorine to sustain the SLAM without getting on top of it which will get expensive.

Obviously Wheelie has made the decision to bail out of the SLAM while she decides what to do about the ladder. I think that this idea has merit as long as she manages to maintain a level of FC to avoid the algal bloom getting worse.

 

[Patrick_B]

The last overnight loss I saw in this thread was 7.0 PPM FC. If that is true, I am in grave doubt that you would see that much loss from whatever might be in that ladder. Which I would tend to agree with others, is not much. It is much more likely there is something else in/throughout the system creating this much demand. No matter what it is, the way to overcome it is to destroy it by keeping the FC elevated to SLAM levels minimum until it subsides. Stopping that will only set you back.

I will also add, that if this ladder were the root of 7 PPM demand on FC, then it's getting plenty of exposure to FC just as it is.

I would continue with the full SLAM until FC demand was satisfied if this were my pool.

 

[setsailsoon]

Folks,

Just a newbie opinion here so please keep that in mind as you weigh the merits of my post. The chemical engineer in me can't help but think about the mass balance. Wheelie is using a LOT of CL for what must be very small mass of algae in the ladder especially considering the flow is so restricted to the ladder. Wheelie, when you add the bleach do you get the FC increase that you should based on the Pool Math calculator? I may have missed it but what strength bleach are you using? When I add 11 L to my pool (slightly larger than yours) I get an increase of 23 ppm and it's uniformly distributed in about 3 hours.

I completely agree the ladder is very likely harboring algae and needs to be addressed but I'm just having a very hard time understanding how that has much to do with the very high chlorine demand at night and day. Wheelie describes the pool as the clear and I'm sure it is compared to previous but it take a lot of mass to chew up 7 ppm of FC overnight even when you factor in the N oxidation reaction can consume several Cl atoms for each N. I suspect there's still a lot of live algae in the water that needs to react with FC. Live algae has a very strong charge in its cell wall which keeps them from clumping together so the water can be only slightly turbid and still have a lot of algae in it. What would you experts say about this approach?:

1. Continue the SLAM while you figure out the ladder. You've used a LOT of bleach to get this far and seems a shame to give the algae time to recover... this will happen quickly and require even more bleach to correct in the end.

2. Check to be sure the liquid chlorine is at full strength. One way to do this is to carefully check to see you get the predicted FC rise (from the bottom of the Pool Calculator) within a couple of hours after adding. If the bleach is not at full strength adjust the amount you add proportionately.

For the ladder, if you can't get it out of the pool consider Kim's neat trick with the turkey baster. Plug all holes under water with plumbers putty and squirt bleach in through a hole above the water line until it overflows. A dose of 10% bleach should kill it all in that contained space pretty quickly. Another approach would be to find a way to pump pool water or from a hose directly into the ladder if you can get an end cap off. Or even better a combination of both techniques.

I hope this helps and I hope I'm not out of line to offer a newbie opinion.

Chris

 

[kimkats]

Chris I like your way of thinking and how you laid it out so clearly.

I hope wheelie comes back to read this.

Kim

 

[setsailsoon]

Kim,

Thanks so much for the kind words. I've learned a LOT here and continue to do so every day. The water chemistry and microbiology of all this is fascinating to me and I'm planning to learn a lot more in the Deep End. I also feel an obligation to "give back" some but I want to be sure people know it's not an expert at the helm on this end.

Thanks for all you and the other experts continue to do here!

Best regards,

Chris

 

[duraleigh]

What would you experts say about this approach?:

I think it's spot on. As Patrick and Chris both pointed out, that's simply wa-a-a-y too much FC loss to be algae hiding in a ladder.

I think the ladder issue sidetracked the thread.

In short, SLAM the pool. Finish the SLAM as the articles describes and treat the algae laden ladder as a separate issue......a reasonably important issue but I do not believe it is the primary source of you FC loss.

I have only briefly looked at this thread. Does OP have a test kit to properly perform the SLAM? When was the last time a complete set of tests were post?

 

[Jezza]

I just wanted to clarify my post from yesterday- I totally agree that the algae from the ladder alone could not be causing the huge ON loss recorded, in fact Wheelie said there was a noticeable improvement in the clarity of the water indicating that the SLAM was doing its job.

I also agree that the SLAM ideally should have been seen through or resumed with ladder issues aside. Wheelie bailed out of the SLAM only 3/4 days in so obviously not enough time to complete it successfully.

Dave- OP has a K2006 and her results are in post #3,

 

[duraleigh]

So, Wheelie, did you get that CYA up to around 30 for your SLAM? (The thread is too long to examine every post)