My new build plan (NJ) - feedback welcome!

petepool

Member
Sep 1, 2019
24
North NJ
I am now just focusing on pricing for the pool itself, since the patio has a lot of variables that makes it hard to get an apples to apples quote. I'll do the patio separately after the pool is constructed (but will apply for permits and drainage work assuming the patio).

Here is latest quote from another PB. Looks more competitive than initial quote:
MatertialVinyl
Size20x40 Rect
Thickness28/20 mil with 26 mil steps
Step size20' (steel)
Deep end swimout5' (steel)
Pipe2" / 1.5" sched 40 PVC
Skimmers2
Side suction1
Returns4
Cleaner line1
FilterPentair cartridge
SaltPentair IC60
PumpPentair intelliflo
HeaterPentair ultratemp 140K
CleanerPolaris TRP35
AutomationPentair Easytouch 8
Lights4 Pentair GloBrite
CopingBluestone (set in concrete)
Pool pad4x8' pad

$58k for the above. Other PB was >$63k and that was assuming NG heater (vs. HP), paver coping (vs. bluestone), smaller 12' steps (vs. 20'), smaller swim out (4' vs 5'), 1 less LED light.

Both are reputable builders that seem very knowledgeable and have provided good advice. Still waiting on one more quote so we'll see where I end up.

Thoughts?
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
10,502
Northern NJ
Why the old Easy Touch instead of the new IntelliCenter automation?

Note GloBrite lights seem to last 2-4 years before they crack and fail. They are in a proprietary housing that no other lights an be used in.

Pentair has a new version called the MicroBrite that you should consider. It may be better and probably can't be worse.

What size and model cartridge filter?
 

petepool

Member
Sep 1, 2019
24
North NJ
Isn't the intelliCenter relatively new and still sort of in development? I would think the easy touch is tried and true at this point.

I'll ask about the globrite. Wasn't the cracking issue on older versions? Has there been a change in design to address the cracking risk?

Cartridge is clean and clear pentair 520. Is that one good?
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
10,502
Northern NJ
Lots of good reviews on the IntelliCenter from @MyAZPool and @setsailsoon and others. It sounds as good as the ET now and is where Pentair is putting their future development and software upgrades.

If you get the ET you should get ScreenLogic. You don't need ScreenLogic with IntelliCenter.

Pentair 520 is fine.
 

petepool

Member
Sep 1, 2019
24
North NJ
Why dont you just build around your patio? Your existing patio seems to be nice and your patio quote seems insane.....
Yes you read my mind. I'm headed toward keeping my existing patio (installed by prior owner, only about 6 yrs old), building the pool and then figuring out the best way to tie into the existing patio.
 

Neto

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
203
Urbana, MD
Yes you read my mind. I'm headed toward keeping my existing patio (installed by prior owner, only about 6 yrs old), building the pool and then figuring out the best way to tie into the existing patio.
Yes or having a pathway from your existing patio to the pool like your neighbor has.
 

chazas

LifeTime Supporter
Jun 4, 2007
74
Manassas, VA
Yes or having a pathway from your existing patio to the pool like your neighbor has.
That's what I'm doing. Existing cheap (but very clean) brushed concrete patio. Doing "matching" brushed concrete around the pool - obviously it won't match exactly, but being separated it shouldn't be as noticeable. Then I'm buying concrete pavers to make a connecting walkway.
 

petepool

Member
Sep 1, 2019
24
North NJ
My concern is how well the patio around the pool will match the existing patio, even if they are separated by a walkway. The existing patio sort of has a distinct look as you can see in the pictures (mixture of light brown and dark brown pavers), and I don't really want that look around the pool. Prefer a light/dark gray look instead, similar to bluestone. How do you tie those two together?
 

jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
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In The Industry
Aug 10, 2017
1,339
Morris Cnty NJ
New guys quote is better. things I dont like is the coping. Bluestone is easy and fast to lay but pops easily in our climates and I dont care for the look. If you like greya you are looking for modern and its also a softer material not great with salt setup. Ditch the globrites there are great led lites out there much better and cheaper. HP compared to heater is 2 different setups. HP needs to run all the time it makes heat slow where the nat gas is point of use mainly.
As for the patio it's pretty simple to skim off the old pavers and set new color/style on the existing base and cheap to do too. Work that patio into your plan
 

petepool

Member
Sep 1, 2019
24
North NJ
New guys quote is better. things I dont like is the coping. Bluestone is easy and fast to lay but pops easily in our climates and I dont care for the look. If you like greya you are looking for modern and its also a softer material not great with salt setup. Ditch the globrites there are great led lites out there much better and cheaper. HP compared to heater is 2 different setups. HP needs to run all the time it makes heat slow where the nat gas is point of use mainly.
As for the patio it's pretty simple to skim off the old pavers and set new color/style on the existing base and cheap to do too. Work that patio into your plan
Thanks Jimmy.

I actually prefer the look of bluestone slabs. Is there a "paver equivalent" that has the same look but holds up better to salt (and hopefully is cheaper)?

Which LEDs do you recommend in place of the globrites, and will they work with the pentair automation?

Yes my plan with HP is to run it more often to maintain temp during the peak season. Have solar panels on roof so have already "prepaid" for the future running cost, and upfront cost is the same when including cost of running gas line. We don't really plan on using pool before late May or after mid September, which is when the HP really can't keep up with cold nights (or I'll use a solar cover during those shoulder periods).

I was going to tackle the patio after the pool is built, and hopefully keep the existing patio base to keep the cost down as you suggest.
 
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malba2366

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2016
63
Middletown, NY
Thanks Jimmy.

I actually prefer the look of bluestone slabs. Is there a "paver equivalent" that has the same look but holds up better to salt (and hopefully is cheaper)?

Which LEDs do you recommend in place of the globrites, and will they work with the pentair automation?

Yes my plan with HP is to run it more often to maintain temp during the peak season. Have solar panels on roof so have already "prepaid" for the future running cost, and upfront cost is the same when including cost of running gas line. We don't really plan on using pool before late May or after mid September, which is when the HP really can't keep up with cold nights (or I'll use a solar cover during those shoulder periods).

I was going to tackle the patio after the pool is built, and hopefully keep the existing patio base to keep the cost down as you suggest.
Techno bloc Aberdeen and Belgard Verona (porcelain) both look similar to bluestone. Both are also quite expensive ($5-6 a sq foot more than the standard pavers)
 

petepool

Member
Sep 1, 2019
24
North NJ
Contract is signed and we are applying for permits now. Let's assume permits are done quickly and we can get the pool in the ground before it gets too cold. Will focus on coping/patio in the spring once weather warms up.

Given the above, do you suggest paying a little extra to backfill with gravel, or is compacted dirt ok given we are waiting until the spring for patio (also contract states that any dirt backfill will be compacted every 6-8").
 

jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
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Aug 10, 2017
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Morris Cnty NJ
If you are going with pavers for the decking stone is the only choice. Dirt will never compact properly and you cant run a compactor right against a liner pool. You will need a bond beam around the top lip for your coping to sit on and tha has to be solid. Were talking 300 in gravel for an average pool backfill honestly. Less work too just dump the 3/4 clean in. If you have any kinda water issues with swampy ground near you have them throw a drain line around pool and exit to low spot of yard. Cheap insurance
 
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petepool

Member
Sep 1, 2019
24
North NJ
Ok good to know. PB estimated closer to $1800 for gravel (3 trucks @ $600 each), so not a rounding error.

I did notice in the summer that the soil in that part of the backyard was often moist even on sunny days. I’ll talk to PB about running a French drain around pool. Is that to prevent future settling of dirt or for other reasons?

I have another question regarding how to design the depth of the pool. We are a doing a 20x40 vinyl pool, (42” steel walls) with full length 20’ steps within pool rectangle. Steps will take up about 4’ of the 40’, and then the deep end has a transition slope of a few ft from floor up to the wall. That leaves probably 32’ of usable pool length.

Is it generally recommended to have a big flat shallow area (12’), 3:1 slope transition (8’), and then flat deep area (12’)? Or for a long pool with only a 6’ deep end, would it be better to have a more gradual slope to avoid the “drop off” feeling once you hit the slope? For example, could I do one big slope of 3.5-6 over 32’ (13:1 slope)?
 
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jimmythegreek

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Aug 10, 2017
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Morris Cnty NJ
Didnt realize u were doing a 20x40 but still more than I would charge but my overdigs are tight and I'm fair. The drain is insurance to never have a floating liner. Jersey is notorious for clay soil that holds water in bad rains and our mini hurricanes the ground can saturate and float a liner. Not so much if the yard has steady pitch off the property but easy to do pipe is cheap. For a pool that size I like a big shallow area. I've done them with normal slope from there or steady angle all the way. You wont be able to do laps with the stairs like that. Any thought to a shelf between steps for a play area for little ones or tanning ledge? Or split the 20ft and do a ledge with normal stairs on the other 10 or less stairs more ledge. Idk the family size/age but the little ones love the shallow play shelfs and they are nice to lay in to tan the water stays warmer and sun feels warmer too on them.
 

petepool

Member
Sep 1, 2019
24
North NJ
Kids are 11, 9, 7. Shelf wouldn't get much use for us. Plus my understanding for vinyl pools is the shelf needs to be deeper than a typical shelf to ensure enough weight on liner.

The laps point is a good one. How would a shelf work between the steps?
 

jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
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Aug 10, 2017
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Morris Cnty NJ
There are a few on here that have done the shelf between stairs I'd look in the gallery. Basically if you had 4 stairs you have 2 normal ones then a large area then 2 more stairs. You have a large lot and lots of room. Are you looking for modern style and what type of corners interest you? I ask because I'm a big fan of L pools. You can do the main part all shallow and then deep end bump out of a bowl so kids can cannonball and jump or normal pool and then an L for a large set of stairs entering pool. In a liner pool with 42" walls the water depth is actually closer to 3ft and it's barely enough to do laps you rub bottom spinning on laps in shallow end
 
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