My new automation system.

[Katodude]

I am pretty sure he is talking about this card. It appears to be shipping soon.

Home, Industrial & Building Automation I/O HATS for Raspberry Pi

Home, Industrial & Building Automation for Raspberry Pi Isolated digital inputs & closure counters from 3V to 250V Analog inputs for voltage, resistance and temperature measurements Relays & solid state outputs up to 40A/240V AC/DC loads 4-20mA & 0-10V I/O's for industrial sensors and actuators...

sequentmicrosystems.com

 

[cmc0619]

Hi, thanks! The new board (MEGA-BAS) still hasn't been released. Very excited for it. For now one of the BurgessWorld ADC hats on Tindie would be the way to go if you don't want to build any circuits.

 

[MyAZPool]

@cmc0619 and @Katodude
I don't know why I didn't see this before now? This is fantastic. Sent you a couple of "noob" questions on PM when you have the time.
Very much interested in incorporating this into my setup.
Thanks very much for sharing...
r.

 

[country_pool]

Great thread, @cmc0619! I stumbled across your YouTube video first, and ended up here to see more updates since that was posted (my first TFP post).

I'm very new to this space (relay acronyms, RS-485 standard, etc), and had a handful follow-up questions to better understand the current state of your project. Many of these refer to the last posted image update, which I realize was a work-in-progress at the time.

1. Related to the GFCI protection, my understanding is the Altech GFL series have a 15mA tolerance (intended for industrial purposes), whereas residential GFCI uses a ~5mA tolerance (shouldn't trip <4mA, should trip >=6mA). I don't know if this is significant in practice, but it had me considering other options, like protecting the entire pool control box through a ~30A 240v GFCI breaker off a main/subpanel of the house (not within the pool controller box in DIN rail form -- which you've noted can be $$$). Like you, my pool was built before the NEC had some of these standards in place ('94), and today my equipment does not have any existing GFCI protection. I could see how a central GFCI breaker covering many devices could make it more challenging to diagnose a trip issue, but I'm hopeful that using standard MCBs within the control box would provide some ability to isolate components, assuming the trip is easy to reproduce. Also, I've seen some discussion around GFCI+VSP being problematic, but it's not clear to me yet why that is (based on my cursory research of GFCI behavior .. protection against current leakage). Anyway, I was curious if you had considered holistic GFCI protection outside of the control box, and decided against it.

2. From your last image update, it looks like your AD ice-cube relays are interacting with your gray WAGO relays. I was curious what scenario you were going to be handling with this design (mainly looking at the pair on right side in the image, although the same exists on the left side). My imagination is limited to thinking about your Pi hat relays toggling the WAGO/AD relays for larger voltages, so the WAGO-AD wiring is throwing me off.

3. I ended up on your YouTube video from looking up "DIY Pool Controller", based on interest in getting some actuators on each of my valves running them on some interval. Without getting too deep in the weeds, I decided I'd like to be able to set the actuators at some in-between state in the valves rotation (not just at the poles), and my plan was to use the (relatively cheap) intermatic actuators, each w/ 2 relays to control a time-based rotation. It seems like a hack, and worst case both relays end up on due to some error. Was curious where you stand with deciding on an actuator approach (I'm assuming IntelliValve+485) and if there was anything significant that steered you in that direction.

4. Regarding the 24VAC transformer, I saw the discussion related to the original Amazon transformer (green board, blue box) being underpowered, leading to you buying the bulkier RS unit. I'm tempted to get a non-DIN transformer and mount it on a random DIN bracket, but I'm open to being dissuaded if my desire to save $ and stay compact has me shortsighted. Anything stand out as a bad idea here? Seems like there might be a safety concern here with the lack of an enclosure.

Really appreciate the detail that has gone into this thread -- super helpful! I need to give a few other's threads a read as well, seeing as they're doing similar things (and maybe answering some of these questions).

 

[cmc0619]

Hi! Glad my youtube was informative. I really should find some time for updates.
1. The reason why I went with the MCBs is I wanted to mimic as much of the current boxes existing characteristics because I know literally nothing about electrical codes. I figured by copying what was already in place, I'd be better off if Mr. Inspector ever came a knockin' for some reason (Like maybe he saw my youtube! ). I don't personally see a problem with it. At one time I'd considered using fuse blocks but in the end it just came down to not knowing what problems I'd run into if I did it another way vs the Intermatic I started with.

Altech has 10, 30, 100, 300mA rated GFCI tolerance breakers. I have the 10mA ones. I don't know either if that has a disadvantage vs the 5mA tolerances of other GFCI breakers. I look at it like this... For 10-15 years the pool didn't have any GFCI on it. If I get it down to 10mA I'm ahead of the game vs not touching it, which is the option tons of "new home"/"new pool" owners take every year.

2. That is probably the relay coil power wires. All my relays operate on 24V AC. They come in multiple voltages but that's the one I chose since I needed 24VAC for my valve actuators so I can share a power supply. So the "negative" side I just daisy-chained to every relay on A2, that's probably what you're seeing. The "positive" side (A1) isn't wired up in the picture but, like you described, has an individual control wire per relay run back to the pi relays that I switch to control those big relays. The A2's on the wagos are daisy-chained too but there's no wiring because I used a busbar to connect the negative side coil relay power together. The bar lives on the underside of the wagos. That's why it looks like it comes in one side of the relays, disappears for a bit and then comes back out and goes to the other 240V A/C relay. That's all just the negative A2 relay connection.

3. There's been a lot of discussion on that topic on here! I'm lucky, I don't have to do any in-betweens with my relays. I could see a timer-based approach working just fine though, but never personally experimented with it myself. Maybe @MyAZPool will know where those threads are. He's doing a similar project and is a much better information gatherer/saver than I am. The Intellivalve sadly doesn't do RS-485 yet. There's a few of us working under our fearless leader rstrouse, who wrote a program to brute force it. We've made a lot of discoveries regarding the RS-485 control of Intellivalve but none yet that let us do whatever we want with it. When Pentair finally releases Intellivalve support over RS-485 for their IC60 it'll get cracked for sure, if we don't figure it out first.

4. Yes, @Katodude saved my butt on that one. I found a use for the little guy so I didn't even lose out on the money! I don't think it matters. I forget who said it but "pretty costs money". That's why we went with that blocky DIN transformer. You could use a cheaper transformer and just put some DIN rails on it for sure. I'm bad with that kind of stuff though, so I tend to get premanufactured devices is all. But if you open my (and probably most) heater, there's the same decased 120/240 to 24V AC transformer in there and it's perfectly fine sitting out in the open barely covered by the elements. It'll also probably be just as large.

Lots of great DIY threads on here. If you have any other questions, you know where to find me.
Cliff

 

[MyAZPool]

country_pool
Welcome to the party.
Here are a couple of threads that come to mind. I know there are more but these should get you started regarding IntelliValve/RS-485 control (or better said, the lack thereof).

Controlling Intellivalve

So I just received a Pentair Intellivalve that I am looking to hookup to my DIY controller. I am not sure how the wiring on it works. There is a black, red, and white wire in that order (there is also a green and yellow reserved for future use, RS-485 control). With most actuators it seems like...

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair IntelliCenter Review and Information

@MyAZPool thanks for keeping my integration of Glacier Pool Chiller in the back of your mind, I appreciate it. I was told 5 weeks ago the Alexa would be back up in the Skills, but nothing, have you heard anything around Alexa coming back for IntelliCenter

www.troublefreepool.com

IntelliCenter Home Automation Integration and Control

Please could you try: {"command":"SETPARAMLIST","objectList":[{"objnam":"VAL03","params":{"STATUS":"ON"}}],"messageID":"foobar"} and see if this turns your valve number 3 on. Replace 'VAL03' with 'VALxx' where xx is the number of the valve you want to control and "ON" for "OFF" to turn off. I...

www.troublefreepool.com

r.

 

[Katodude]

I modeled my controller off of Cliff’s design.

The intermediate control of valve actuators is tricky. Until they figure out the Intellivalve configuration timing is your best bet. I would start by zeroing the valve in one direction and then time how long it takes to get to the intermediate stop. Every time you want the intermediate stop I would also start by zeroing the valve in that direction and then move it for the prescribed time. That should help manage the drift that would normally occur.

I also started with a cheaper transformer and looked on how to mount it and just bit the bullet and bought the more expensive and pretty din rail mount one.

Since my initial build I have done a bunch of upgrades including pH monitoring and temp control for the spa. I am about to do a full re wire with some of the new hats that have been released in an effort clean up the box. Will post more pictures when that starts.

You can check out my build from the link in my signature. I dont have a fancy YouTube video, but some decent pictures.

 

[cmc0619]

2022 Update.

The pool is open! The controller is still working well. Changes this year include:
Removal of 5V power sources. The MEGA-IND/MEGA-BAS can take 24VAC or DC power and provide 5V to the raspberry pi. My raspberry pi now functions off the same 24VAC transformer I use to power my actuators. I've seen no problems with the pi while the actuators are operational. I now have more room for activities in my case!

Alexa is back! I've readded Alexa integration into my node-red flows. The trick was to use an iptables command to PAT requests to port 80 on my pi over to port 60000 where my Alexa node-red flow listens.

My CIrcupool died on power up this year. I gotta say those guys are top-notch. I shipped it back to them for prorated warranty repair. I was into year 3 (40% of base price to repair) by about 7 days. After a call they went ahead and knocked that down to the year 2 prorating (20%) saving me a couple of hundred bucks. The whole process took < 2 weeks which is more than I can say for my Dolphin S200 repair...

And now that random people are allowed at my house again, I've started calling around to get the plumbing redone. I'm planning on this year being the year of automated testing, looking forward to getting that manifold installed and probes going.

It hit 95 degrees here yesterday in South Jersey. Happy swim season everyone!

 

[Katodude]

So I am happy for you since you have both inspired me, and shamed me. Just order the industrial automation card. Excited to use that since it will replace the RS-485 dongle is takes up a lot of room, and give me a proper 4-20ma reader.

And wait, wait, wait, the card can be powered by 24VAC? I dont see that anywhere in the documentation. That would be a huge space saver.

 

[setsailsoon]

So I am happy for you since you have both inspired me, and shamed me. Just order the industrial automation card. Excited to use that since it will replace the RS-485 dongle is takes up a lot of room, and give me a proper 4-20ma reader.

And wait, wait, wait, the card can be powered by 24VAC? I dont see that anywhere in the documentation. That would be a huge space saver.

Glad to see this thread again... We are making a lot of progress on the house and will get the construction drawings for my pool this week or next. I plan to install with simple timer and convert to this system for my pool automation. It will fit in nicely with the rest of our smart home features. I'm gonna need a LOT of help from y'all. I do have a couple RPi's only a year or two old laying around from old projects.

Chris

 

[cmc0619]

So I am happy for you since you have both inspired me, and shamed me. Just order the industrial automation card. Excited to use that since it will replace the RS-485 dongle is takes up a lot of room, and give me a proper 4-20ma reader.

And wait, wait, wait, the card can be powered by 24VAC? I dont see that anywhere in the documentation. That would be a huge space saver.

I have a MEGA-BAS in there at the moment. I have a MEGA-IND but I can't find it I'm almost certain that both can be powered by 24V AC or DC but you might want to double check with Mihai. The MEGA-BAS definitely can as it's running at 0.8 amp draw off the transformer at the moment. Plenty of room for my two actuators to also run and power the relay coils.

Glad to see this thread again... We are making a lot of progress on the house and will get the construction drawings for my pool this week or next. I plan to install with simple timer and convert to this system for my pool automation. It will fit in nicely with the rest of our smart home features. I'm gonna need a LOT of help from y'all. I do have a couple RPi's only a year or two old laying around from old projects.

Chris

Ready when you are!

 

[natetanr]

I have some really basic questions about these DIY controller setups I plan on building a standalone Nixie controller. The intellicenters are difficult to find in stock and I wanted to save some money. I've got lots of questions so I probably should start my own thread...
1. I ordered the MEGA-IND and not the MEGA-BAS because the BAS was out of stock. Looked like the IND would work the same as the BAS? I already have a spare Pi 4.
2. Do you use a breaker subpanel before running power into your automation boxes? The Nixie standalone pool controller wiki assumes your using a subpanel before the automation box. Im hoping to use the same box for automation and all my breakers and transformers. I see breakers or mini breakers in these boxes but im trying to understand how you would run 220v. In a residential sub panel those are usually two pole but the mini breakers im finding are all single pole.
3. The wiki for the Nixie standalone pool controller talks about using 3hp contactor relay rather then the relays on the pi HAT for loads like the pump and intelichlor. I have a 220v pump thats vsp and will always have power on but will need one of these relays for the SWCG. What do you all recommend for these relays? Googling 3hp contactor relays sent me down a confusing rabbit hole.

 

[Katodude]

1. Either should work for you. I have the Mega-IND because I need a 4-20ma input. It just depends on what you are looking for. An advantage of the Mega-BAS is it will use 24VAC for power so you can use the same power supply as the valve actuators. In my case I need a 24VDC but that will replace two PS that I currently have.

2. Yes. I have 220V and 120V breakers at the pad. I also now have no 220V running through my box. I switched my heater and SWG to run on 120V so those are easier to switch.

3. I also switched to a VSP that now always has power so I dont power that through my box. I drive it through the RS-485 connection. Much cleaner and safer.

 

[cmc0619]

I have some really basic questions about these DIY controller setups I plan on building a standalone Nixie controller. The intellicenters are difficult to find in stock and I wanted to save some money. I've got lots of questions so I probably should start my own thread...
1. I ordered the MEGA-IND and not the MEGA-BAS because the BAS was out of stock. Looked like the IND would work the same as the BAS? I already have a spare Pi 4.
2. Do you use a breaker subpanel before running power into your automation boxes? The Nixie standalone pool controller wiki assumes your using a subpanel before the automation box. Im hoping to use the same box for automation and all my breakers and transformers. I see breakers or mini breakers in these boxes but im trying to understand how you would run 220v. In a residential sub panel those are usually two pole but the mini breakers im finding are all single pole.
3. The wiki for the Nixie standalone pool controller talks about using 3hp contactor relay rather then the relays on the pi HAT for loads like the pump and intelichlor. I have a 220v pump thats vsp and will always have power on but will need one of these relays for the SWCG. What do you all recommend for these relays? Googling 3hp contactor relays sent me down a confusing rabbit hole.

You're making the right call DIY (IMO). Why spend 6000 when you can $600 and get more functionality for it.

1. I agree with Katodude. Either will work, just depends on what you might need feature wise.

2. I have 30amp service from the main breaker in my basement it pops up in the bottom of my box and gets distributed from there via a row of DIN rail circuit breakers in my box. If you check my BOM (I think it's page 6), I have part numbers for 220V two pole breakers, some even have GFCI. I have an all in one box, there are pictures (and a youtube) of how I did it sprinkled throughout this thread.

3. A SWCG is a non-inductive load. It just needs a regular old relay on it. Probably doesn't pull more than 3 amps. The contactor mention was for the pump. Your pump will always have power (like mine), so no relay/contactor is required.

 

[AmazinPistolPete]

GFCI 120v	GFL2C160102	1	63	63
GFCI 240v	GFL2C20010S	1	72	72
15amp breaker	1CU*L (Altech * = Amps)	1	15	15
240v breaker	2CU*L (Altech)	2

I am trying to plan for materials to begin an automation project.
For context I currently have 3 - 240V Breakers 15 AMP (Hayward VSP, a booster for the SPA, Blower Pump). There are 2 120V 15amp breakers (pool and Spa lights and the other to malibu lights (pretty sure these are non-functional). Pretty sure the SPA Pool lights leaves the breaker and goes to a GFCI outlet, that then feeds a light switch to currently control the SPA, and Pool light at the same time (goal would be to split as you have moving forward). I am just trying to figure if I need to match Breaker for Breaker.

So I do have a few questions, as I have been following the various different projects in this space.
1. In your BOM you use a GFCI 120V for Lights (total get saving the kiddos), is the GFCI 240V for your Pump?
2. Then what are the non GFCI breakers used for?
3. You also have 2-24V PS and a 5 volt PS. Was cost a factor when deciding to use 24V PS. I noticed you upgraded to a 96W, If you were to do it again would you buy an even higher watt 24V PS. To just run more off the 24V busbar?

 

[AmazinPistolPete]

1. Either should work for you. I have the Mega-IND because I need a 4-20ma input. It just depends on what you are looking for. An advantage of the Mega-BAS is it will use 24VAC for power so you can use the same power supply as the valve actuators. In my case I need a 24VDC but that will replace two PS that I currently have.

I am trying to the follow the MEGA-BAS and MEGA-IND reference. I see the 8 or 16 relay option on the Sequent Site. Is this what you are referring too. In addition, I now see a Three 40A/240V RELAYS RS485 Daisy-chainable HAT for Raspberry Pi. Would it be valuable to invest in this hat for the high voltage switching of the VSP Pump, Booster, etc? Avoiding the separate relays in @cmc0619 build?

 

[Katodude]

No the Mega-Bas and Mega-Ind each do not have relays. They have the RS-485, the 4-20ma and other inputs. We use separate dedicated relay hats for relays. I personally use the 8 relay for valve actuators. I also use them to fire off the separate high voltage relays that @cmc0619 uses.

The 3 high voltage relay hat seems very appealing. It frightens me a little but the specs seem good.

 

[AmazinPistolPete]

I realize now you are referring to this. Building Automation 8-Layer Stackable HAT (BAS). Correct?
So does that mean you have a 8 relay hat, BAS hat and MCP3208 12bit-8channel HAT? Or your using the BAS in place of the MCP3208 that @cmc0619 used?

 

[Katodude]

This is what we refer to as the Mega-BAS. It turns out Sequent calls them other names now, but thats what they used to be called.

Building Automation 8-Layer Stackable HAT for Raspberry Pi

Raspberry Pi Building and Industrial Automation. 8 Univ. Inputs: 1K/10K thermistors, 0-10V, Dry contact/counters; 8 Level Stackable; Pluggable Connectors; 4 x Triac Outputs; 4 x 0-10V Outputs; 4 GP LEDs; RS485 ports; RTC with Battery Backup; Watchdog; LEDs on all digital IOs; TVS on inputs; Cmd...

sequentmicrosystems.com

This is the Mega-Ind

Industrial Automation 8-Layer Stackable HAT for Raspberry Pi

Industrial Automation 8-Layer Stackable HAT for Raspberry Pi; 4 Opto-inputs; 0-10V: 4 In 4 Out; 4-20mA: 4 In 4 Out;4 PWM Outputs; RS485;1-Wire;RTC;

sequentmicrosystems.com

 

[cmc0619]

I am trying to plan for materials to begin an automation project.
For context I currently have 3 - 240V Breakers 15 AMP (Hayward VSP, a booster for the SPA, Blower Pump). There are 2 120V 15amp breakers (pool and Spa lights and the other to malibu lights (pretty sure these are non-functional). Pretty sure the SPA Pool lights leaves the breaker and goes to a GFCI outlet, that then feeds a light switch to currently control the SPA, and Pool light at the same time (goal would be to split as you have moving forward). I am just trying to figure if I need to match Breaker for Breaker.

So I do have a few questions, as I have been following the various different projects in this space.
1. In your BOM you use a GFCI 120V for Lights (total get saving the kiddos), is the GFCI 240V for your Pump?
2. Then what are the non GFCI breakers used for?
3. You also have 2-24V PS and a 5 volt PS. Was cost a factor when deciding to use 24V PS. I noticed you upgraded to a 96W, If you were to do it again would you buy an even higher watt 24V PS. To just run more off the 24V busbar?

Hi! Sorry for the delay. Kids Soccer season is back!

1. Yes. 240v GFCI is for the pump. I think the new rules(tm) are anything that touches water needs a GFCI and I try to stick close to the NEC rules as much (or as little) as I understand them

2. I have non-GFCI 120V breakers for my raspberry pi PS and actuator transformer. The 240V non-GFCI breakers are for my SPA air blower and to power the heaters control system.

3. The 5v PS has been removed as the MEGA board is powered by 24V and can provide 5V of power to the rPi board so one 24V PS is to power the MEGA-BAS board and rPi.

The other PS, that you have the question about, is actually not a PS but a transformer that converts mains power (120V, 240V, "high voltage" stuff) to 24V *A/C* for the valve actuators. Each actuator takes .75A to turn and I was planning on having 3 of them so 2.25Amp potential draw there. A 96W transformer at 24V provides me with 4Amps of power which gives me some headroom.

Also, re: 24V AC sizing:
Right now, I'm actually playing with having the transformer also power my MEGA board/rPi combo and that's been working well allowing me to remove the 24V *DC* power supply I was previously using. I'm just testing it. I don't know if I'll leave it like this long term though but the 96W has been more than adequate and I really only need a 72W for its intended purpose. In theory, I could also bypass the transformer in my heater and run the heater directly from the 24V AC transformer but that's purely academic I'd never do that.