My "Giant Pond" is Almost a Real Pool! And Some Questions...

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Could I just add the muriatic acid, then the stabilizer/CYA, then the chlorine -- for now -- and deal with the calcium chloride later, like Monday? If my CH is low, that means it's soft water, right? Soft water won't hurt people, and that's what I'm most concerned about for the next 24 hours or so. Also, the change to 70 on the TA means the pool calculator says I need to add baking soda. At what point should I add that?
 
I had started writing this post before I realized my numbers were off. I've gone back and corrected it, but I may have missed something.

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I tried using the pool calculator, and am going to post what I did and what it told me (not sure I did it right, being the first time and all).

At the bottom, I put in 14 W x 28 L x 7 D (our average depth), which gave 20,500 gallons.

I put the primary source of chlorine as bleach. I put the pool surface as plaster. (Don't know temperature, left that at 84 degrees.)

Here are the "Now" and "Target" numbers I put in, and the results the calculator gave me:

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FC - Now: 0 Target: 4 - Results: Add 102 oz. 10% bleach. (Mine says it's 10% and is in 1 gallon containers, so a little less than a gallon?)

pH - Now: 8.0 Target: 7.5 - Results: Given TA of 70 and Borate of 0, add 42 oz. of 15.7% muriatic acid. (Mine says it 14.5% and is in 1 gallon containers, so how do I recalculate that? Math is not my forte. Ask me anything about ancient Rome or Greece, and I can tell you, but math is not a strong suit. Help? Please?)

TA - Now: 70 Target: 100 - Results: Add 144 oz. by weight or 115 oz. by volume baking soda.

CH - Now: 30 Target: 260 - Results: Add 698 oz. by weight or 558 oz. by volume calcium chloride. (That seems like a lot! Is this correct?)

CYA - Now: 0 Target: 40 - Results: Add 109 oz. by weight or 114 oz. by volume stabilizer. (Mine says it's 4 lbs., so that's 64 oz. by weight, right? I need another one, right? But not all of it? Can we swim in it while this is dissolving?)

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Do these results seem reasonable? I'm afraid I'll screw this part up.

I'm concerned about the message under "Suggested FC Levels" that reads: "Note: Be careful if your CYA is really and truly zero!" I'm assuming mine IS really and truly zero since I couldn't get a reading on that test twice?

Also: "Unless you are shocking your pool, it is always best to add less than the full amount, wait a little while to allow the addition to mix thoroughly, and then retest to see where you are." So, add part of the suggested amount (half?), then test again in a few hours?

So, as per crabboy's post, I would add part of the muriatic acid first, wait, test again. Add more if necessary, until the pH reading is good.

Then, I should add part of the stabilizer, wait, test again, add more if necessary.

Finally, I should add part of the chlorine, wait, test again, add more if necessary.

At what point should I add the baking soda? And can I wait a few days on the calcium chloride?

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BTW, we got the vast majority of the debris out with the vacuum. Looking better! We might be able to net the little bit that's left out, or at least direct it into the skimmer.

Sorry to be asking so many questions! I feel clueless, and don't want to mess this part up. I am also totally exhausted, so if I don't make sense (or sound panicked, or grumpy :D ), please excuse me (I worked all night cleaning, etc. for tomorrow's party -- I've spent so much time working on the pool that my house was a mess -- NOT good for a party!).
 
Are you sure your average depth is 7 feet and not about 5? it's a difference of more than 5000 gallons.

I'd start off and add for a 15000 gallon pool.

Add full amount of CYA to get you to about 30.
Add full amount of chlorine.
Add full amount of Acid.

Leave TA alone until PH is correct.
CH can wait till next week.

Estimating low on the gallonage will not allow you to overdose the pool with anything. You'll find out in time if the pool is larger based on how you test after adding chemicals based on the pool calc estimates.

Keep a close eye on the FC level during the day until the CYA dissolves.
 
crabboy said:
Are you sure your average depth is 7 feet and not about 5? it's a difference of more than 5000 gallons.

I'd start off and add for a 15000 gallon pool.

Add full amount of CYA to get you to about 30.
Add full amount of chlorine.
Add full amount of Acid.

Leave TA alone until PH is correct.
CH can wait till next week.

Estimating low on the gallonage will not allow you to overdose the pool with anything. You'll find out in time if the pool is larger based on how you test after adding chemicals based on the pool calc estimates.

Keep a close eye on the FC level during the day until the CYA dissolves.
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It's a very deep pool. We were surprised at how deep it is. It's at least 10 feet at the deep end, and about 4 feet at the shallow end.

But yeah, I can start smaller and work up, which is sorta what I was thinking anyway. Thanks for the advice.

Using your suggestion, my test results and the pool calculator, I get 75 oz. of chlorine, 30 oz. of 15.7% acid (but mine is 14.5%, so maybe a little more?), and 60 oz. by weight or 63 oz. by volume CYA (to get to 30).

Does that sound about right?
 
Wow, 10'. If it is that deep, then 20k is more realistic. I'm guessing you were not watching your water meter as you were filling, if you did fill with city water.

You'll likely need double the chlorine and closer to 80oz of acid based on updated depth. If you go over on the chlorine it's no big deal, better to have more in there than less. As for the acid, dump some in there tonight and retest and readd in the am.
 
crabboy said:
Wow, 10'. If it is that deep, then 20k is more realistic. I'm guessing you were not watching your water meter as you were filling, if you did fill with city water.

You'll likely need double the chlorine and closer to 80oz of acid based on updated depth. If you go over on the chlorine it's no big deal, better to have more in there than less. As for the acid, dump some in there tonight and retest and readd in the am.
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Yeah, the pool guys who emptied it said it was really deep, one of the deeper pools they'd seen. I'm just over 5 feet tall, and it sure felt like it was twice my height (at least) when I was down there working on it. We don't have metered water (yet... that's supposed to change next year) -- just a flat rate, so there's no meter to watch that I'm aware of. That would've been a good indicator, but I'm just as happy that we DON'T have metered water right now. ;)

OK, I just added about 32 oz. of acid based on the previous. Add more or wait until morning and re-test? I can add the CYA and bleach tonight and re-check in the morning, too - right? How long do I need to wait before re-testing? (I'm so green at this!)
 
The original pool calculator results said I'd need 109 oz. of the stabilizer/CYA. I had a bottle that said it was 4 lbs., or 64 oz., so I just added that. Is that right, though? It seems like an awful lot. I used an old knee-high nylon and it's crammed full. It takes up an awful lot of room in the skimmer. Just wanting to be sure I did the right thing. I can go take it out easily enough if that's wrong.
 
WaterWoman said:
The original pool calculator results said I'd need 109 oz. of the stabilizer/CYA. I had a bottle that said it was 4 lbs., or 64 oz., so I just added that. Is that right, though? It seems like an awful lot. I used an old knee-high nylon and it's crammed full. It takes up an awful lot of room in the skimmer. Just wanting to be sure I did the right thing. I can go take it out easily enough if that's wrong.
Click to expand...


Im sorry, I gave you wrong info here. I said skimmer by mistake, I meant return. I guess I was thinking (make sure not to say skimmer) in my head, and did. Like mentioned above it goes to teh filter and is usually backwashed out so its a waste. Tie it in the pool some ware. best by a return. Have you figured out what pipe is a return yet??
 
Not 100% sure about this because I don't have your test, but a CH level of 30 sounds WAYYY low. 300 sounds more realistic. The TA level of 70 does sound about right. You don't need to raise that up to 100 BTW, it should be fine at 70. :wink:

Good luck with the party!

Adam
 
gman said:
WaterWoman said:
The original pool calculator results said I'd need 109 oz. of the stabilizer/CYA. I had a bottle that said it was 4 lbs., or 64 oz., so I just added that. Is that right, though? It seems like an awful lot. I used an old knee-high nylon and it's crammed full. It takes up an awful lot of room in the skimmer. Just wanting to be sure I did the right thing. I can go take it out easily enough if that's wrong.
Click to expand...


Im sorry, I gave you wrong info here. I said skimmer by mistake, I meant return. I guess I was thinking (make sure not to say skimmer) in my head, and did. Like mentioned above it goes to teh filter and is usually backwashed out so its a waste. Tie it in the pool some ware. best by a return. Have you figured out what pipe is a return yet??
Click to expand...
OK, took it out. Will tie it to the extended return tomorrow. Thought that seemed odd, but I knew I'd read to do that somewhere on this thread. Hey listen, I'm half-loopy tonight myself. I haven't slept in about 36 hours or so.

Yes, I posted somewhere back there that the smaller pipe angled toward the shallow end (the oval one) blows, the extended pipe with the reducer blows, but nothing comes out of the center pipe we had uncapped, so we've replaced the cap on that pipe.

I've GOT to go get some sleeeep... :)
 

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launboy said:
Not 100% sure about this because I don't have your test, but a CH level of 30 sounds WAYYY low. 300 sounds more realistic. The TA level of 70 does sound about right. You don't need to raise that up to 100 BTW, it should be fine at 70. :wink:

Good luck with the party!

Adam
Click to expand...
That figure seems odd to me, too, Adam. Maybe I did the test wrong somehow (wouldn't surprise me, as tired as I am!). I'll have to figure it out tomorrow. I'm off to get some much-needed sleep right now. Will be up early and will check back in here. Thank you for the 'good luck'! I could use it right about now! LOL
 
Re-tested FC, pH, and TA this morning. Results below:

FC - This is the first time I've been able to complete this test, so here are the details. I used the 25 mL test for 1 drop = .02 ppm. It took 11 drops to turn it from pink to colorless, so that's .22 ppm. The pool calculator (I've rounded pool size down to 20,000 gallons instead of 20,500 since it's hard to be exact on that and this seems easier) says to add 69 oz. (2 qts. 5 oz.) 10% bleach. So, add all of that, half of that? How long should I wait after adding it to test again?

pH - My pH is now a little on the low side at 7.2. The pool calculator (using 20,000 gallons) says to add 26 oz. (1 lb. 10 oz.) by weight or 23 oz. (2 cups 7 oz.) by volume washing soda or soda ash. So, again, add part or all of that and check again? How long do I wait before checking?

TA - No change. TA remained at 70.

I skipped CH and CYA tests this morning.

Water looks nice and clear now. There's still a little 'stuff' on the bottom that we need to finish vacuuming out, but other than that, it looks really pretty!
 
reebok said:
fc is 2.2 which you figured for correctly, just wrote it wrong. adding 69oz of 6% will put you at roughly 4ppm fc. you can retest in 30 mins with pump running. I wouldn't change that ph. just make sure you're in line with whatever your cya is per the chart. pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock
bleach/chlorine is one of the things you add all at once (not half now, half later or anything like that).
Click to expand...
OK, thanks! (I'm confused, though, because my calculator said that 11 x .02 = .22. ?) But using your figure, the pool calculator says to add 19 oz. (2 cups 3 oz.) of 10% bleach. (What I have is 10%.) So, just add that and leave the pH alone for now? I've put the recommended amount of CYA in the sock as I was advised (and placed it at the return), but was also told it would take it 5 to 7 days to dissolve, so not sure what I can check about that just yet.
 
WaterWoman said:
OK, I found the manual for my skimmer (Sta-Rite U-3), and that grate underneath in the pool wall evidently IS an equalizer. However, after looking at the manual, now I have more questions. ... The manual shows both pipes open for a "residential installation" with a float valve, but it shows the front pipe going to the main drain, not an equalizer, and the rear pipe (the one that's now plugged) going to the pump. ... We don't have a check valve. That pipe is open. And the rear pipe is plugged with a very large cap that won't let the float valve and the skimmer basket seat properly. We tried to unscrew this cap, and it wouldn't budge by hand. ... Do we need to unscrew and remove that cap somehow? And do we need to get a check valve for the front pipe? I am even more confused now than I was before I read this! ... Any advice? Anyone?
Click to expand...

I think I know the answers because my pool is plumbed like this.

One of the lines in the skimmer goes directly to the pump. The pump sucks water out of the skimmer through that line. The other, capped line goes to a drain somewhere. It looks like the grated hole in the side of your pool is that drain. (In my pool, that same line goes to the main drain in the bottom of the pool.) That thing you refer to as a float valve (I call it a turtle) has a hole in the bottom with a slide to vary the amount of water sucked from the area on top of the turtle's back. With both lines in the bottom of the skimmer open, place the turtle on top of the lines. The turtle will cause suction to be diverted both to the drain and the skimmer. Vary how much the slide is open to change the amount of suction going to the skimmer v. the drain.

My gunite pool is about 40 years old and I guess that this technique was common back then.

Cheers,

Hank
 
reebok said:
oh ok. you multiply by .2 not .02. assume the cya is there after 24 hours and dose chlorine accordingly.
Click to expand...

Bob_Funk said:
Your calculator is right, but with a 25 ml sample you multiply by .2 not .02, you do net need to be so exact on your chlorine test, just use a 10 ml sample, divide the # of drops by 2 & save on reagent(13 drops=chlorine level is 6.5)
Click to expand...

Oh, OK. Gotcha! Thanks for that info, you guys! Wish the instructions with these tests were more understandable. And that's great advice about saving on the reagent.
 
CUTiger78 said:
WaterWoman said:
OK, I found the manual for my skimmer (Sta-Rite U-3), and that grate underneath in the pool wall evidently IS an equalizer. However, after looking at the manual, now I have more questions. ... The manual shows both pipes open for a "residential installation" with a float valve, but it shows the front pipe going to the main drain, not an equalizer, and the rear pipe (the one that's now plugged) going to the pump. ... We don't have a check valve. That pipe is open. And the rear pipe is plugged with a very large cap that won't let the float valve and the skimmer basket seat properly. We tried to unscrew this cap, and it wouldn't budge by hand. ... Do we need to unscrew and remove that cap somehow? And do we need to get a check valve for the front pipe? I am even more confused now than I was before I read this! ... Any advice? Anyone?
Click to expand...

I think I know the answers because my pool is plumbed like this.

One of the lines in the skimmer goes directly to the pump. The pump sucks water out of the skimmer through that line. The other, capped line goes to a drain somewhere. It looks like the grated hole in the side of your pool is that drain. (In my pool, that same line goes to the main drain in the bottom of the pool.) That thing you refer to as a float valve (I call it a turtle) has a hole in the bottom with a slide to vary the amount of water sucked from the area on top of the turtle's back. With both lines in the bottom of the skimmer open, place the turtle on top of the lines. The turtle will cause suction to be diverted both to the drain and the skimmer. Vary how much the slide is open to change the amount of suction going to the skimmer v. the drain.

My gunite pool is about 40 years old and I guess that this technique was common back then.

Cheers,

Hank
Click to expand...
Thanks for that info, Hank. I'll check it out. Sounds like our pools are close to the same age. :)
 
A TA level of 70 is fine and can be left as is.

If the PH doesn't go up (it may go up on it's own) in a week or so, add some Borax, to raise it to 7.6.

Retest the CH, but understand it's a tricky test to perform correctly. You MUST swirl for 20-30 second between EACH drop. The test should take a long time to do correctly. If 30 is accurate, then you may want to increase it. It's not critical, some time next week is fine.

However, isn't the pool painted? I'm pretty sure with painted plaster the level doesn't have to be as high as normal plaster. I think you can get by with 100-150ppm on the CH.

The CYA - a Nylon probably isn't the best choice for that much CYA - I would use an old tube sock next time, hopefully your's won't break. If you notice the CYA escaping thru the nylon, just be sure to brush the pool where it's dissolving. Remember to wait a week to retest - and 24 hours after the CYA has dissolved from the sock, assume your level is whatever you targeted. So if you targeted 50ppm, that's now your level, and then you start keeping your FC according to the CYA chart, with 50 as your level. Make sense?
 

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