Metal problems and Sulphur water source😞

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Texas Splash said:
You can. Drops will be the same. How long they last depends on your levels and how much you test. Since you will be doing a SLAM and may be testing FC, CC, and CYA fairly often, you want to be sure to have plenty of those. The others vary on use. As you noted, you burned through a lot of CH reagents since your levels were so high, so that's something else to consider.
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Okay! Gotcha. Good to know there are different sizes of the reagents available- I wasn’t aware of that!! So thanks for letting me know…I probably would have been buying these wee bottles forever! 😁Thanks!
 
JoyfulNoise said:
One doesn't typically find elemental sulfur in water. Sulfur almost always comes in the form of dissolved hydrogen sulfide gas which gives water a rotten-egg smell. H2S is processed by using UV light and peroxide based chemicals to oxidize it into sulfates. Sulfates in contact with high hardness water (calcium) will create calcium sulfate scale which looks powdery white, not black. If ascorbic acid is lightening the stains, then they are likely iron-based.

At this point, you need to forget about the stains as they are aesthetic and not a hazard. You need to SLAM your pool to get rid of all the algaecide that was added and causing your foaming issues. As @Texas Splash said, you're in a pickle and you need those testing reagents. So you need to focus on getting those whatever way you can and then get a SLAM going to correct your water issues. Everything else should be put on the back burner until you complete a SLAM.
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Joyful Noise- this is a copy of what I sent Texas Splash. ( I didn’t know how to tag then, but I just found out how!!👍😁) I’d appreciate your feedback about the Taylor Reagents…(and anything else you want ti chime in on!!😁 Thanks! Patti (message below)
Texas Splash said:
Patti, I caught up with your posts. I applaud your efforts to find a root cause to your problems, but remember, it's fruitless without a proper test kit. Some of the theories you noted above may have nothing to do with your situation, and you'll end up driving yourself nuts. To put it into perspective, we have literally thousands of pool owners here in the southern part of the US whose pools are close to seal level with extremely high water tables. With a strong storm the pool is 100% under storm water. I don't think I've ever encountered a situation where the staining was from that water. A liner is fairly thin, so in theory something dark might be leave a shaded spot, but I'm more inclined to focus on the water you can control and test. The copper is definitely a legitimate issue and it's good you stopped using it. Unfortunately it may have already added enough copper to cause problems.

In the end though, I personally wouldn't worry about the stains right now. I would focus on obtaining a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C test kit first, then take actions to balance your water properly. If there is algae, we'll coach you through a SLAM Process. If the CH is indeed too high, we'll show you how to reduce that as well. But it all starts with the proper testing. That's where I would focus my efforts rigth now.
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Yup! I do have the K-2006 (FAS-DPD) kit- but was having trouble finding the replacement reagents. I found one that a fellow Ontarian recommended, so I was just making up my list to order.
Is there any significant difference between the K-2006 kit and the K-2006’C’???
I ordered this test not this spring, but the spring before that. When it arrived some of the reagents were outdated and others were not far off- BUT the retailer refunded my total cost- and let me keep the whole kit.
Most of the reagents now have 2020 dates on them…but I really can’t afford to replace every single bottle right now if I can get away with it…
Do you know if there are any that ‘should be okay’ to use with the April 2020 date- and those that DEFINITELY have to be fresh?
I will try & tag Joyful Noise about this as well (not sure I know how!) But I’m hoping his knowledge of chemistry could help direct me!
Here is the list of reagents in the kit (some of which I’m out of so will have to replace anyways):
FREE & COMBINED CHLORINE:
•R-0870 DPD Powder
•R-0871 FAS-DPD Titrating Reagent
•R-0003 DPD Reagent #3

pH TEST:
•R-0004 pH Indicator Solution-phenol red
•R-0005 Acid Demand Reagent
•R-0006 Base Demand Reagent

TOTAL ALKALINITY TEST:
•R-0007 Thiosulphate N/10
•R-0008 Total Alkalinity Indicator
•R-0009 Sulfuric Acid .12N

CALCIUM HARDNESS TEST:
•R-0010 Calcium Buffer
•R-0011L Calcium Indicator Liquid
-R-0012 Hardness Reagent

CYANURIC ACID TEST:
•R-0013 Cyanuric Acid Reagent


***For the Calcium Hardness Test…
I used the smaller 10ml sample size and I still ran out of the Reagents after just a couple of tests because my CH is over 800+++ (according to the strips).

I know it is high…so I don’t want to keep putting out money for the reagents if I already know it will be off the charts.
You mentioned something called Cal-Hypo??? If I use this product is it going to throw other levels out of whack? Will I have to compensate?
What exactly is it (besides a calcium reducer or eliminator) and do you know of any other brand names it might go under? (Being in Canada, quite often we can’t get the products you guys in the States use- ie. I can’t get Metal Magic up here and couldn’t find any U.S. Retailers - or even the distribution company itself- that would let me order from them!!

So, while it’s great that people discuss products that work for them…it would be SO HELPFUL if people could include other brand names that have the same ingredients. If they don’t know of any other brand names, if they could at least post the ingredients, it helps us here up North to search for products that have the same chemical composition. It IS time consuming though, and I never did find a Canadian equivalent to Metal Magic.

Is there a page dedicated to Resources/Useful Links? where Info like that could be added??
If members could share that kind of information -about comparable products and/or specific ingredient lists, and other pertinent info such as: supply companies that DO ship to Canada, or names of retailers they know of in Canada, or places that have good prices/sales on products… that kind of stuff- it would be SO helpful!!!

I would have loved to have a resource like that rather than wasting weeks contacting the manufacturer numerous times, waiting for responses, and never getting any after initial inquiries were made. 🙄 And I spent a lot of time contacting U.S. Retailers, Amazon sellers etc too….which all proved fruitless. I’ve been trying to get on top of this for almost 2 months now…so I’m sure you can imagine my frustration!! 😊

How long should I keep the FC at 5 before we do the SLAM? (Or- I guess we will do it as soon as I get the reagents?)

One more question…I got some bleach yesterday. However, it didn’t have the breakdown of ingredients on it like the Purox and liquid chlorine jugs did.
Should I assume it will contain the same ingredients & amounts??
Is this used to shock with? (as opposed to the powder granules I’ve used in the past).
How do you know how much to put in? What should your FC and CC levels go up to when you shock? If you add 2 jugs say, how long do you wait before testing the water? Will shock levels affect other readings? Do I just ignore those until the FC is back around 5 and start testing then? I’ve never used liquid chlorine before, so this is all new to me! After it’s been SLAMMED and I get it balanced, When can I start using my chlorinator again? I assume I start dispensing at 1 and monitor (daily? Every few days?) and gradually turn it up until I consistently get 3-5ppm readings?
And if you know anything about the shelf life of those reagents, I’d appreciate your input!
THANK YOU!!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! 😊😊😊
 
Texas Splash said:
You can. Drops will be the same. How long they last depends on your levels and how much you test. Since you will be doing a SLAM and may be testing FC, CC, and CYA fairly often, you want to be sure to have plenty of those. The others vary on use. As you noted, you burned through a lot of CH reagents since your levels were so high, so that's something else to consider.
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Sorry- another tech question…do you know Why I’m not receiving email notifications of responses to my threads? In the settings I checked every box. But every time I go in to check, one of the boxes has been unchecked. I reset it, but still don’t get any notifications of any kind. Thoughts? (I’ve checked in spam box too)
 
Patti said:
Sorry- another tech question…do you know Why I’m not receiving email notifications of responses to my threads? In the settings I checked every box. But every time I go in to check, one of the boxes has been unchecked. I reset it, but still don’t get any notifications of any kind. Thoughts? (I’ve checked in spam box too)
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Good question. I'll tag @Leebo for help on that one. :)
 
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Patti said:
Yup- I have those in my kit now (almost full bottles). Just need to know if they’re still going to be okay to use because they’re dated April 2020.
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Ideally they should be replaced since they are about 1.5 years old. Will they give accurate results? .. humm, maybe close, Hard for us to know.
 
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I had found a video from Taylor a long time ago that explained how to tell if certain ones were no good by how they behaved in the bottle etc.
I tried to find it just now but had no luck.
 
Texas Splash said:
You can. Drops will be the same. How long they last depends on your levels and how much you test. Since you will be doing a SLAM and may be testing FC, CC, and CYA fairly often, you want to be sure to have plenty of those. The others vary on use. As you noted, you burned through a lot of CH reagents since your levels were so high, so that's something else to consider.
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You had said that the water should be okay to swim in - all my levels are good (based on the strip), and you suggested I focus solely on the chlorine & getting balanced & not worry about the black algae. I can live with the staining - but what concerns me is swimming in something that has black mold spores present!!! Super chlorination doesn’t appear to kill it…so I have to question whether it’s safe or not - especially if friends bring their kids over…the whole water in the mouth thing. I’m going to try and find out, but if you or anyone else knows the answer to that I’d appreciate it.
One more thing (🤦‍♀️🙏🤷‍♀️😁) …now that it’s been balanced for a few days, can I add Clarifier? The water isn’t cloudy, but it’s certainly nowhere near sparkling either. Thank you (for you help…AND your patience!!!😊) BTW - we’re hitting balmy Texas-like temperatures this week - 40*Celcius +++ temps today (the humidity is a killer- is it dry or humid in Texas?)
Just fyi…42*C is 107.6F …but it feels even HITTER with the humidity! 🥵🥵🥵
 

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No clarifier. It will resolve nothing. You CAN swim in a pool while treating with algae IF you can see the bottom of the pool and the chlorine level is accurate to the SLAM level for your CYA and no higher. Test strips won't give you that accuracy. If you still have some of the older R-0013 for YCA tests, I would use that. If you have any remaining FAS-DPD, use that as well for FC tests.
 
To reiterate, my position is that we first obtain accurate testing (reagents) before attempting the SLAM. With only about a month left, you're on a short timeline. We need to be careful about bouncing back & forth between metal staining and black algae until we first are sure we can count on reliable testing. Test strips do virtually nothing for you/us. They are too broad in levels not to mention never accurate. Once you are able to test accurately, this is my recommended priority:
- Consider a water exchange (to some degree) to address potential for metals (previous copper use)
- Balance all levels in preparation for a SLAM
- Perform a SLAM to its full completion
- At the completion of the SLAM, see if staining is still present or worse (ID type of stain)
- Treat for metals last
- Prepare for closing. This might jump-up in priority at any given time depending on how long it takes to get reagents, provide accurate test results, and do the steps above.
 
Texas Splash said:
No clarifier. It will resolve nothing. You CAN swim in a pool while treating with algae IF you can see the bottom of the pool and the chlorine level is accurate to the SLAM level for your CYA and no higher. Test strips won't give you that accuracy. If you still have some of the older R-0013 for YCA tests, I would use that. If you have any remaining FAS-DPD, use that as well for FC tests.
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Yup I have the powder - it is dated 2019. But it worked fine last year. Unfortunately I’m out of the R-0013. 😕
 
Texas Splash said:
To reiterate, my position is that we first obtain accurate testing (reagents) before attempting the SLAM. With only about a month left, you're on a short timeline. We need to be careful about bouncing back & forth between metal staining and black algae until we first are sure we can count on reliable testing. Test strips do virtually nothing for you/us. They are too broad in levels not to mention never accurate. Once you are able to test accurately, this is my recommended priority:
- Consider a water exchange (to some degree) to address potential for metals (previous copper use)
- Balance all levels in preparation for a SLAM
- Perform a SLAM to its full completion
- At the completion of the SLAM, see if staining is still present or worse (ID type of stain)
- Treat for metals last
- Prepare for closing. This might jump-up in priority at any given time depending on how long it takes to get reagents, provide accurate test results, and do the steps above.
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Okay, sounds good! 👍Just ordering the reagents now!
 
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I suspect your CYA is much higher than the strips indicate, because you have been using tablets and some kind of powdered shock. either cal-hypo which would raise hardness, or dichlor or trichlor which raises CYA or both.

now, after allowing chlorine level to drop even more due to magic copper gimmick machine and attempts to address stain, you are getting algae for real - hence cloudiness/lack of sparkle.

as soon as you can, you need the most accurate reading of CYA so you can get the chlorine up for a SLAM, following directions and adjusting pH first if needed (because no need to test pH during shock as it is inaccurate at high chlorine levels). stockpile at least 5 to 10 gallons of liquid chlorine (called liquid shock sometimes in stores) or plain unscented, unthickened, un-"cloromax technology" bleach. (sodium hypochlorite 6, 8.5, 10, 12, or 12.5%, with other ingredients only or mostly water) get a gallon of muriatic acid to have on hand too for lowering pH, store safely and read directions carefully. no clarifiers, no algaecides. they are NOT NEEDED and can be MORE HARMFUL than good.
 
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