Managing TA

[Sivartb000]

I have perpetually high TA because my fill water is really high (200). I believe the correct method is to add muriatic to get ph to 7.0, and then aerate to get ph up, then I can add more muriatic, rinse, repeat until I get my TA where I want it. Can I simply do this cycle as quickly as I can raise my ph back up? Or do I have to wait longer between cycles for testing TA?

Fc - 20 (currently slamming)
TA - 100
Ph - 7.2
Cya - 50

 

[ajw22]

You can lower the pH anytime it hits 8. But it is a losing battle with fill water of TA200.

With a vinyl pool and no SWG high TA does not matter that much for you. I would just do regular checks of your pH and lower it as needed.

 

[JohnT]

You can do it as often as you want. But really it’s not worth worrying that much about. The primary effect of high TA when you have a vinyl pool is that the pH gets high. If your pH is at 7.2, don’t worry about TA. If you find you have to add acid more than you’d like to keep the pH in range, you can work on lowering TA when you have time.

BTW, 200ppm is not high TA fill water. Mine is 480ppm

 

[Sivartb000]

Thanks for the replies. My TA was around 100 all year last year, and I was constantly battling high ph. I was (and probably still am) going to get my TA to 60 or so, and see how that works for me, because ph really was an issue. Its only at 7.2 right now because I just dropped it from 8 to 7. I do have to add quite a bit of water through the summer between evap and vacuuming to waste, so I'm constantly putting high TA water in the pool. This is only my 3rd year (2nd using tfp) so I'm still learning my pool. If the effort doesnt make a difference with managing ph, then I'll know for next year.

 

[Brett S]

My ph was around 100 all year last year

Boy, I sure hope you didn’t let anyone swim last year

 

[Sivartb000]

Boy, I sure hope you didn’t let anyone swim last year

Lol, I enjoy the humor on this website. Fixed it.

 

[gonfishin]

000, why do you need to vacuum to waste on a regular basis? I have never vacuumed to waste and I don't recall my parents ever doing it in 50 years of pool ownership.

 

[Sivartb000]

000, why do you need to vacuum to waste on a regular basis? I have never vacuumed to waste and I don't recall my parents ever doing it in 50 years of pool ownership.

I have a small 15ft round above ground pool with a sand filter that was designed for a pool larger than I have. It really gets the water moving. So while I can vacuum with it on filter, I cant see anything on the bottom because of the return, and it kicks up a lot of what's on the bottom. If its not too dirty I can vacuum the whole pool in about 8 minutes, so it's not THAT much if water going out the waste, but it adds up. An auto vacuum may work better, but I dont really want to spend hundreds of dollars on a decent one.

 

[Brett S]

An auto vacuum may work better, but I dont really want to spend hundreds of dollars on a decent one

The Intex auto cleaner actually works surprisingly well on small pools and it’s usually less than $60 on Amazon. It’s a pressure side cleaner, so it requires a system flow rate of more than 1650GPH, but that’s just the bare minimum. Above 2000GPH is probably better, but from your signature it sounds like your pump will be fine.

 

[Sivartb000]

The Intex auto cleaner actually works surprisingly well on small pools and it’s usually less than $60 on Amazon. It’s a pressure side cleaner, so it requires a system flow rate of more than 1650GPH, but that’s just the bare minimum. Above 2000GPH is probably better, but from your signature it sounds like your pump will be fine.

I tried that and it was super hit or miss. Sometimes it would roam around and seem to work well, other times itd sit in one spot and not move for hours. Could never figure it out. My neighbor gave me a suction side vacuum and it was the same deal - would just stop moving. If I back washed it seemed to start going again, but then stop an hour or so later. I didn't know to track the pressure of the pump, so I'm not sure if it was actually time to backwash or if my pumps just not strong enough but either way having to babysit it kind of defeats the purpose. Maybe I'll throw one in for a week and just see what it does for a longer period, maybe theyll start moving again on their own.

Edit: my last comment was kind of dumb, there would be no way that I need to backwash every hour.

 

[Brett S]

Yeah, if the intex cleaner just stops moving like that it’s definitely a sign that there isn’t enough pressure. Is your whole system rated at 2100GPH or just the pump? If it’s just the pump then by the time you add the sand filter there may just not be enough pressure for it.

If the return bulkhead on your pool is 1.25” and your pump came with a 1.5” bulkhead (some of the bigger pumps do) then you might want to use the 1.5” bulkhead as that will have less back pressure and might allow the cleaner to work better.

 

[Sivartb000]

Yeah, if the intex cleaner just stops moving like that it’s definitely a sign that there isn’t enough pressure. Is your whole system rated at 2100GPH or just the pump? If it’s just the pump then by the time you add the sand filter there may just not be enough pressure for it.

If the return bulkhead on your pool is 1.25” and your pump came with a 1.5” bulkhead (some of the bigger pumps do) then you might want to use the 1.5” bulkhead as that will have less back pressure and might allow the cleaner to work better.

Just the pump. My pool inlets/outlets are 1.25 adapted to accept the 1.5 hoses that the pump uses, so im definitely restricted by the 1.25 hoses. The original filter was one of those crappy intex cartridge filters. I did a bunch of research before buying and got the sand filter at the same time as the pool, so the original filter is sitting unused in the garage.

Edit: so the inlets are 1.25, nothing I can do about that. However, I could go 1.5 from the pressure side to the vacuum without stepping down, I havent tried that. Maybe that's what you meant originally. Like I said, I'm still at 1.25 on the auction side, so not sure if that'll make a difference or if the damage will already be done. Or I could go 1.5 straight to the auction side and use the suction vacuum, but then I'm stuck with the 1.25 return, unless I bypass that as well...

 

[Brett S]

Depending on exactly how much effort you want to put into this, I would suggest the following:

If you have two 1.25” bulkheads on the suction side, you can use those with the intex split plunger valve that looks like this:

It has two 1.25” inputs and one 1.5” output. This will allow the pump to pull more water from the pool because it won’t be restricted by a 1.25” hose.

Then for the return, I would suggest replacing your 1.25” bulkhead with a 1.5” bulkhead like this...

This one is a little scary to install because you need to cut the liner to install it, but it’s really pretty quick and easy and safe to do. This will allow the water a full 1.5” path back into the pool. Less restriction should allow for more flow. Your pump may have come with one of these fittings... I know that intex includes them with some of their bigger pumps, but I don’t know if one was included with your pump or not.

However, all that said, I don’t know for sure if making all those changes will be enough to make the auto cleaner work more effectively or not. I suspect that it will, because it sounded like it was just on the edge of working as it was, but there’s still a chance that it won’t make a difference. It should help your pump run more efficiently though, either way.

 

[Sivartb000]

Depending on exactly how much effort you want to put into this, I would suggest the following:

If you have two 1.25” bulkheads on the suction side, you can use those with the intex split plunger valve that looks like this:
View attachment 132540
It has two 1.25” inputs and one 1.5” output. This will allow the pump to pull more water from the pool because it won’t be restricted by a 1.25” hose.

Then for the return, I would suggest replacing your 1.25” bulkhead with a 1.5” bulkhead like this...
View attachment 132538
This one is a little scary to install because you need to cut the liner to install it, but it’s really pretty quick and easy and safe to do. This will allow the water a full 1.5” path back into the pool. Less restriction should allow for more flow. Your pump may have come with one of these fittings... I know that intex includes them with some of their bigger pumps, but I don’t know if one was included with your pump or not.

However, all that said, I don’t know for sure if making all those changes will be enough to make the auto cleaner work more effectively or not. I suspect that it will, because it sounded like it was just on the edge of working as it was, but there’s still a chance that it won’t make a difference. It should help your pump run more efficiently though, either way.

Wouldnt it still have the same restriction, since it has to go through the 1.25 ports of that valve, and I'd still be using 1.25 hoses from the pool to that adaptor? I currently have a similar set up - 2 1.25 hoses about 3 ft long, to a t with 1.25 to 1.5 adaptor and then 1.5 to the pump. I'd definitely be a little leery of cutting a hole in it.

Honestly I think this pool is temporary anyways, and the manual vaccuum takes all of 30 minutes a week, and 1/3 of the time is trying to get the stupid thing to prime. If the family continues to enjoy it for the next year or two I'd like to buy a bigger steel sided pool and build a deck around it. Just want to make sure the kids are going to continue to use it before I make that plunge.

Edit: or is the restriction only an issue on the pressure side that the vacuum is connected to? I could run a hose from the pump over the side of the pool to the vacuum instead of attaching to the bulkhead to test the theory, which actually would be a lot easier anyways because attaching to the bulkhead is a pain in the butt anyways. I'm gonna try that, kind of curious now.

 

[Brett S]

Wouldnt it still have the same restriction, since it has to go through the 1.25 ports of that valve, and I'd still be using 1.25 hoses from the pool to that adaptor? I currently have a similar set up - 2 1.25 hoses about 3 ft long, to a t with 1.25 to 1.5 adaptor and then 1.5 to the pump. I'd definitely be a little leery of cutting a hole in it.

It would not, because in your case the two 1.25” hoses are reduced to a single 1.25” connection before it goes through the adapter to enlarge the connection to 1.5”. The pump is limited by that single 1.25” connection and essentially the two 1.25” bulkheads in the pool are only operating at half their capacity.

With the piece I mentioned above the two 1.25” connections are directly joined to a 1.5” connection. This means that both 1.25” bulkheads in the pool can operate at close to full capacity because there is no single 1.25” restriction.

But, like I said above, it’s a decent amount of expense and work for not a whole lot of gain. Cutting the liner sounds a lot scarier than it actually is, but I can certainly understand why you wouldn’t want to bother. Especially if this pool is more of a short term thing.

 

[wireform]

If the manual vacuuming is tedious because of priming try this going forward. Put the vacuum head connected to the hose into the water and take the other end of the hose and hold it in front of the pool return untill there aren't anymore air bubbles coming out of the vac head. Now attach it wherever it needs to be and that hose is primed from the get go.

 

[Sivartb000]

It would not, because in your case the two 1.25” hoses are reduced to a single 1.25” connection before it goes through the adapter to enlarge the connection to 1.5”. The pump is limited by that single 1.25” connection and essentially the two 1.25” bulkheads in the pool are only operating at half their capacity.

With the piece I mentioned above the two 1.25” connections are directly joined to a 1.5” connection. This means that both 1.25” bulkheads in the pool can operate at close to full capacity because there is no single 1.25” restriction.

But, like I said above, it’s a decent amount of expense and work for not a whole lot of gain. Cutting the liner sounds a lot scarier than it actually is, but I can certainly understand why you wouldn’t want to bother. Especially if this pool is more of a short term thing.

I see what you're saying. Maybe I'll give it a shot. As for cutting the hole, I'm not so worried about the actual cutting. I'm pretty handy, I'm more worried about it holding up. Theres extra vinyl in that area that reinforces the bulkhead, I'd be concerned with it tearing, but I'll actually inspect it and see what I think. I'm not totally opposed to it, just need to check it out and see what I'd be looking at price wise and decide, like you said, if the small gain is worth the risk and money.

If the manual vacuuming is tedious because of priming try this going forward. Put the vacuum head connected to the hose into the water and take the other end of the hose and hold it in front of the pool return untill there aren't anymore air bubbles coming out of the vac head. Now attach it wherever it needs to be and that hose is primed from the get go.

I actually just found a method this weekend that's similar. I stuff my garden hose into the vacuum hose and put the hose stuffed hose (haha) underwater. The pump still air locked a couple times, but a lot less than any of the other methods I've tried. Your idea may work similar, and then I wouldnt have to deal with the garden hose.

 

[Brett S]

I see what you're saying. Maybe I'll give it a shot. As for cutting the hole, I'm not so worried about the actual cutting. I'm pretty handy, I'm more worried about it holding up. Theres extra vinyl in that area that reinforces the bulkhead, I'd be concerned with it tearing, but I'll actually inspect it and see what I think. I'm not totally opposed to it, just need to check it out and see what I'd be looking at price wise and decide, like you said, if the small gain is worth the risk and money.

I did the upgrade I talk about on my previous intex pool as well as my current intex pool and I never had any issues with leaks or with it not holding up. The hole for the 1.5” bulkhead isn’t significantly bigger than the 1.25” bulkhead, so if you replace the 1.25” bulkhead with the 1.5” one then most of that extra vinyl still stays there to help reinforce that spot.