Lowering TA before adding borates

[altapoolguy]

Hey TFP,

I'm in the process of lowering my TA so that I can add borates (as boric acid) to hopefully slow my pH rise.

I've gone through two cycles of adding enough muriatic acid to bring the pH down to ~7.0 and then waiting for aeration via my swcg + spillway to bring the pH back up.

I've lowered my TA by less than 10 across the ~3 weeks since I started this process. After reading some posts here, I finally tested my fill water's TA. 200!!

So it looks like I'm fighting a bit of a losing battle here. My intention was to lower TA to the lower end of the recommended levels (50-60) and then add my boric acid and bring my borates up to 40-50.

Does anyone have any guidance for me on this? Should I just add borates now? I figure with my fill water at a TA level of 200 I'm going to be fighting pH rise + TA rise no matter what, borates or not.

Current levels:

FC: 5
CC: 0
pH: 7.4
TA: 80
Ch: 325
Cya: 70
Salt: 3400

 

[mgtfp]

No real need to force TA lower before adding borates, as you realised yourself, this would be difficult with your fill water anyway. You might still be able to get it a bit lower with borates in the water.

No harm in trying Borates. Not sure how much it will reduce the pH rise, it might slow down a bit, but will eventually rise to pretty much the same. The total amount of acid you need to add will not really change, but you will probably have to add acid not as often, but more when you add it, which makes it less tedious.

The biggest advantage will be that Borates will buffer the localised pH rise within the SWG cell and therefore reduce the scaling risk that comes with higher TA and pH.

 

[Bperry]

Hey TFP,

I'm in the process of lowering my TA so that I can add borates (as boric acid) to hopefully slow my pH rise.

I've gone through two cycles of adding enough muriatic acid to bring the pH down to ~7.0 and then waiting for aeration via my swcg + spillway to bring the pH back up.

I've lowered my TA by less than 10 across the ~3 weeks since I started this process. After reading some posts here, I finally tested my fill water's TA. 200!!

So it looks like I'm fighting a bit of a losing battle here. My intention was to lower TA to the lower end of the recommended levels (50-60) and then add my boric acid and bring my borates up to 40-50.

Does anyone have any guidance for me on this? Should I just add borates now? I figure with my fill water at a TA level of 200 I'm going to be fighting pH rise + TA rise no matter what, borates or not.

Current levels:

FC: 5
CC: 0
pH: 7.4
TA: 80
Ch: 325
Cya: 70
Salt: 3400

I tried the borates and wasn’t all that impressed with the pH rise prevention but I did learn that keeping the TA lower and not trying to force the pH down to 7.6 helped a lot. Mine will hover around 7.8-8.0 a lot of the time and the farther I tried to force it lower than that, the faster it climbed to its “happy place”.

You might try letting pH sit at 7.8 and then only knock it back to 7.6-7.8 after it gets to 8.0

 

[altapoolguy]

No real need to force TA lower before adding borates, as you realised yourself, this would be difficult with your fill water anyway. You might still be able to get it a bit lower with borates in the water.

No harm in trying Borates. Not sure how much it will reduce the pH rise, it might slow down a bit, but will eventually rise to pretty much the same. The total amount of acid you need to add will not really change, but you will probably have to add acid not as often, but more when you add it, which makes it less tedious.

The biggest advantage will be that Borates will buffer the localised pH rise within the SWG cell and therefore reduce the scaling risk that comes with higher TA and pH.

Thank you. Btw, you have a 66,000 gallon pool?! Majestic. Must also keep you busy!

 

[altapoolguy]

I tried the borates and wasn’t all that impressed with the pH rise prevention but I did learn that keeping the TA lower and not trying to force the pH down to 7.6 helped a lot. Mine will hover around 7.8-8.0 a lot of the time and the farther I tried to force it lower than that, the faster it climbed to its “happy place”.

You might try letting pH sit at 7.8 and then only knock it back to 7.6-7.8 after it gets to 8.0

Thank you. I may go more judo as you've suggested and let the pH sit closer to where it wants. I've been micromanaging everything and I know that's not sustainable in the long run. I'm hoping borates let me add acid less frequently, at least. Do you get itchy skin with your pH that high?

 

[reggiehammond]

The reason you will need to worry about TA is to protect the SWCG you mention is soon to be installed. You'll need to track CSI, as scaling at the SWCG will occur rapidly if you don't manage it.

For me, I also have high TA well water. When I top up the pool, I know I have to add a gallon of muriatic acid. It is what it is. The sooner I fight my TA down to 50-60 each Spring, the more I can enjoy the summer.

 

[Bperry]

Thank you. I may go more judo as you've suggested and let the pH sit closer to where it wants. I've been micromanaging everything and I know that's not sustainable in the long run. I'm hoping borates let me add acid less frequently, at least. Do you get itchy skin with your pH that high?

The water comes out of the tap at 7.7pH so we’re drinking it like that and have never noticed an issue on the skin.

 

[mgtfp]

Thank you. Btw, you have a 66,000 gallon pool?! Majestic. Must also keep you busy!

No, it's 66000 litre, not quite as majestic.

And just a bit more detail on my first post: The most effective measure is TA reduction. But at this stage it doesn't really matter whether further lowering TA before or after adding Borates, if you want to try Borates anyway. You may still want to try if further TA reduction does the trick and save the money for boric acid. I personally like Borates for the extra cell protection, and if that's what you're after, then you could just as well go straight for it.

Key is in the end to accept pH to be in the high 7s.