Light's Chrome Finish Lost

cwilliamp

Silver Supporter
Mar 14, 2022
17
San Diego, CA
About November 2022 my pool was replastered and at that time I had the pool builder install a new pool light, a Pentair Amerlite Underwater Incandescent Light, MN 78458100. Initially, the stainless steel light ring had a chrome finish. In the first year of use the chrome was lost. I recall brushing the pool one night and thinking the brushing activity around the light was generating a lot of dust, and that dust might be the chrome coming off.

Please see the associated photographs, new light with chrome, light without chrome, light without chrome in the sunshine.

Please let me know what you think I could have done to cause the chrome finish to come off the stainless steel?

Does the lack of chrome finish require the light be replaced?

Thank you.
Charlie
 

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You did not cause that. It happens to many lights due to the pool water chemistry. It is only a cosmetic problem.
 
About November 2022 my pool was replastered and at that time I had the pool builder install a new pool light, a Pentair Amerlite Underwater Incandescent Light, MN 78458100. Initially, the stainless steel light ring had a chrome finish. In the first year of use the chrome was lost. I recall brushing the pool one night and thinking the brushing activity around the light was generating a lot of dust, and that dust might be the chrome coming off.

Please see the associated photographs, new light with chrome, light without chrome, light without chrome in the sunshine.

Please let me know what you think I could have done to cause the chrome finish to come off the stainless steel?

Does the lack of chrome finish require the light be replaced?

Thank you.
Charlie
Low pH, low TA is the usual cause. Do you use tablets for chlorination?
 
Looks like you also have copper pipes, which I would be concerned about.

Show the inside of the copper pipes.

Most likely is low pH and zero TA due to tab use.

Second issue might be electrical if the chemistry is good.

"25K gal IG plaster built in 1965".

Is the pool bonded?

I do not see a bond wire in the pictures.


1740075459863.png
 
Looks like you also have copper pipes, which I would be concerned about.

Show the inside of the copper pipes.

Most likely is low pH and zero TA due to tab use.

Second issue might be electrical if the chemistry is good.

"25K gal IG plaster built in 1965".

Is the pool bonded?

I do not see a bond wire in the pictures.


View attachment 629010
In California, which is all I am familiar with, code used to call for the pipes coming out of the ground to be about 18" of copper and the above ground also be copper. The rest underground could be PVC. That's how my pool was constructed. Has never caused me an issue.
Biggest issue I ran across many times was the elbow underground for a pressure cleaner. They were always 3/4" copper-to-PVC elbows and the high-speed water would strip the copper at the bend and cause a leak. I repaired several but would usually just refer to a local leak detection company that was beet equipped for the job.
 
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The main thing is to see if the copper looks like it was exposed to low pH.

Low pH exposure will look like raw copper and unexposed will have a brownish patina like outside.

If the copper looks, ok, then the problem is probably not chemistry and more likely to be electrical stray current.

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Low pH strips off the protective copper oxide layers and allows oxygen and chlorine to attack and oxidize the copper metal.
copper.jpg

There are two stable copper oxides.

Copper(I) oxide or cuprous oxide is the inorganic compound with the formula Cu2O, which looks like the reddish color that you see.

Copper(II) oxide or cupric oxide is the inorganic compound with the formula CuO, which is black.

Low pH strips off the protective copper oxide layers and allows oxygen and chlorine to attack and oxidize the copper metal.

4Cu + O2 --> 2Cu2O (Reddish color).

2Cu2O + O2 --> 4CuO (Black).

2CuO + CO2 + H2O --> Cu2CO2(OH)2 (Turquoise patina).

The hydrogen in acid does not directly oxidize the copper like it will do to aluminum.

However, the low pH continuously strips off any protective oxide layers, which exposes the copper metal directly to oxidation.

New copper is a reddish color and it can turn brownish over time as it develops a copper oxide patina.

Reddish pink indicates that you have fresh oxidation where low pH has stripped off the patina and you have a mixture of raw solid copper and copper(I) oxide.

If the color goes to a darker brownish color, that can indicate the formation of a protective copper(II) oxide layer.

1740088254325.png
 
Looks like you also have copper pipes, which I would be concerned about.

Show the inside of the copper pipes.

Most likely is low pH and zero TA due to tab use.

Second issue might be electrical if the chemistry is good.

"25K gal IG plaster built in 1965".

Is the pool bonded?

I do not see a bond wire in the pictures.


View attachment 629010
thanks for your feedback. Those pictures are obsolete. The copper pipe was removed, replaced by PVC, when the plaster was redone in 2022. I don't know if the pool is bonded. This is the first time I've heard of the concept. I'll have to study up on this.
 
I can. Note that the photo of the good chrome cover is dated 11/24/2022 and the photo of the missing chrome is dated 11/25/2023. I have posted my chemical test logs for the date range of 11/10/2022 (first page started by the pool builder) through 3/5/2024. I use a Taylor K2005 test kit and intermittently have water tested at Leslie's Pool Supply.
 

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Pentair Tech Support replied with "At first glance there may be a "bonding" electrical issue.". I've since provided all this info to the pool builder/remodeler to see what they say. This discussion on TFP is the first time I've heard of pool bonding or equipotential bonding so I've tried to study and come up to speed. This pool was built in 1965 and I see no evidence that bonding was considered in that design. Unless the copper pipes and steel conduit, niche and light housing were providing the bonding, all of which have been replaced by PVC and plastic.
 
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Pentair Tech Support replied with "At first glance there may be a "bonding" electrical issue.". I've since provided all this info to the pool builder/remodeler to see what they say. This discussion on TFP is the first time I've heard of pool bonding or equipotential bonding so I've tried to study and come up to speed. This pool was built in 1965 and I see no evidence that bonding was considered in that design. Unless the copper pipes and steel conduit, niche and light housing were providing the bonding, all of which have been replaced by PVC and plastic.
A pool of that age used the copper piping as the bond as long as it was continuous from the pool to the equipment. Also, as pumps of that era were usually of all-bronze construction, the copper connection at the pump and coming from the filter, which would have had either bronze fittings at the tank or at the bronze backwash valve, were considered the equipment bond as long as there was a ground wire as well.
The same was true of the pool lights as code usually called for red-brass conduit for pool light installations from the niche to the junction box. The conduit provided the bond.
All that worked well enough until PVC started to be used for repairs. Plastic pumps and filter fittings all broke the bond. We would then use ground clamps and 8ga. wire connected to the copper as the bond. It was allowed. Once the underground copper or brass conduit was replaced, a true bond connected to the pool rebar had to be installed to meet bonding requirements. That was an expensive repair that wasn't always done, sadly. Your pool may be one of those.
 
Swimming pools first appeared in the NEC in the 1962 edition, and the section was a brief three pages long. Here’s the first bonding citation in the 1962 code, although it was not initially called bonding:
________________________________________
680-7. Grounding
- (a) All metallic conduit, piping systems, pool reinforcing steel, light fixtures, and the like, shall be bonded together and grounded to a common ground. The metal parts of ladders, diving boards, and their support, shall be grounded.
- (b) No pool equipment shall be grounded to an external grounding electrode that is not common to the pool ground (deck box or transformer enclosure).
- (c) An unbroken No. 14 AWG, or larger, insulated copper wire shall be provided for a grounding conductor from the deck box to the distribution panel ground.
- (d) Metallic raceways shall not be depended upon for grounding. Where exposed to pool water and in other corrosive areas such as in pump houses or adjacent to water treating and other equipment, the grounding of the non-current carrying parts shall be by means of an insulated copper conductor sized in accordance with Section 250-95.
________________________________________
The 1965 edition changed the ground wire requirement from #14 AWG to the larger #8 AWG, along with other minor additions. Then the 1968 edition introduced the word “bonding” for the unbroken connection between all components that was required, and specified the five-foot radius rule that we know today. Equipotential bonding code has continued to be improved in each code cycle up to today.
___________________________________________
While the year that the NEC added a new requirement is easy to define, each local juridiction’s building codes don’t necessarily adopt the latest edition of the NEC immediately. The state of Florida, for example, did not make the 2011 NEC effective until mid-2015. Other jurisdictions have sometimes waited even longer to adopt a newer NEC edition and, to complicate things further, they might make amendments that exclude parts of the newest requirements. So the year when the NEC first adds or changes a requirement can be several years before your local building department adopted that edition of the code and began enforcing it.
 
The NEC required pools to be bonded beginning in 1962.


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Article 680 – Initial Requirements.

•First included in 1962 NEC with following scope:

680-1. Scope. The provisions provisions of this Article apply to the construction and installation of electric wiring for equipment in or adjacent to swimming pools to metallic appurtenances in or within 5 feet of the pool, and to the auxiliary equipment such as pumps, filters and similar equipment.

No electric appliances or wiring shall be installed in the water or in the enclosing walls of a swimming pool, except as provided for in this Article Article.

Article 680 – Initial Requirements.

•First Article 680 covered: First Article 680 covered:

Equipment approval

Underwater Underwater lighting (not to operate operate over 150 volts).

All circuits supplying underwater fixtures should be isolated.

If the circuit voltage is greater than 30 volts, an approved fail-safe ground detector device which automatically de-energizes the circuit or an approved grid structure or similar safeguard should be used.

Isolating type transformers w/grounded metal barrier.

Junction boxes and transformer enclosures for underwater lights.

Boxes shall be provided with means for independently terminating not less than two grounding conductors.

Receptacle location – 10 foot clearance 10 foot clearance

Clearances for service drop conductors – 10 foot horizontal zone/Other overhead wiring not permitted over pool

Article 680 – Initial Requirements.

First Article 680 covered:

Grounding and bonding •

All metallic conduit, piping systems, systems, pool reinforcing steel, lighting fixtures, and the like, shall be bonded together and grounded to a common ground.

The metal parts of ladders, diving boards, boards, and their supports, shall be grounded.

Metallic raceways shall not be depended upon for grounding.

Where exposed exposed to pool water and in other corrosive areas such as in pump houses or adjacent to water treating and other equipment, the grounding of the noncurrent carrying parts shall be by means of an insulated copper conductor sized in accordance with Section Section 250-95•

No pool equipment shall be grounded to an external grounding electrode that is not common to the pool ground (deck box or transformer enclosure).

Article 680 – Initial Requirements•

First Article 680 covered:

Grounding and bonding •

Nonelectrical equipment required to be grounded to a common ground in accordance with Section 680-7 shall be grounded in accordance with Article Article 250.

Structural reinforcing steel may be used as a common bonding conductor for nonelectrical nonelectrical parts where connections can be reliably made in accordance with the provisions of Article Article 250

Atricle 680 (Swimming Pools) was added to NFPA 70 (NEC) in 1962.

680-8 dealt with grounding and bonding.
It was renumbered in 1975 to 680-22 and renamed Bonding.
In 2002 it was renumbered again to 680-26.
In 2005 it was renamed again to Equipotential Bonding and major changes made to the body.

Looking at all that, I'd have to say about 1963. Realizing that not all governing bodies adopted the NEC it was probably later than that for a lot of places.

That's hard to say. NEC isn't the law unless it is adopted by local ordinance, so different versions apply in different areas of the country. The 1962 NEC first added swimming pool requirements, and it required all metal parts to be grounded and connected together. In 1975, the concept of bonding without grounding was introduced. In 1984, a clarification was added to indicate that a ground was not supposed to be part of the bonding system.

The wiring should be there on any pool built after a version of the NEC for 1962 or later was adopted locally. It's termination may be slightly different.
 

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Thanks.

 
I apologize for my error about losing chrome. It appears that the chrome was not lost. In fact, the vendor website says the ring is stainless steel (SS) and does not mention chrome. I've asked the vendor to verify the ring is simply polished stainless steel. I'll post their response when it is received.

Assuming the ring is stainless steel, it looks like the ring is covered by a deposit. Please see the photo below.

Today while doing some tests of equipotential bonding I attached a alligator clip to the light ring. Attaching the alligator clip resulted in scratches in the deposit on the ring. It does scratch off with the alligator clip or screw driver edge, however using a stainless steel dish pad did not work. The deposit is fairly hard. Also, the deposit is fairly thick, that is I can detect an edge of the scratch with my fingernail.

Please share your thoughts on what this deposit might be, and what occurred or is occurring to cause this deposit to form.

Thanks again.

20250224_162944.jpg
 

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