Leak loses 1/4" per day

[fortunate]

My chemicals disappear more rapidly than they should. I did the bucket test and I see the pool drops 1/4" more than the bucket every ~24 hours. How severe is that much leakage?

I turned off the auto filler (and skimmers) so the level drops and every day I reset the bucket. When I start seeing the pool level match the bucket after 24 hours, that should mean the waterline is below the leak. I dislike that this exposes my plaster, but I'd really like to fix the leak.

Today the bucket and pool levels match (having reset the bucket yesterday). There is one jet and one light in the shallow end that are both halfway above the waterline. The two skimmers are completely above the waterline (they weren't yesterday).

Neither skimmer contains water. Is that normal? Or does it mean the leak is in the skimmers or the pipes connecting them to the pump? Tearing up the yard to fix this is not something I want to do!

 

[Texas Splash]

Could you share some pics of your pool, the returns/skimmers, and equipment pad? Might be helpful.

 

[fortunate]

Absolutely! I've attached some pics.

I added a Poolskim on 2 of the 3 return jets, otherwise the return jet points at the skimmer, making for little circulation in this long, skinny pool. The wind blows a lot of junk in the pool and the Poolskims work well.

The auto filler needs to be torn out and redone. Without a rock on the float, the float gets stuck in time (the rod it slides on gets dirty) and doesn't go down when the water does. It leaks where the output line attaches, making a pool next to the filler. Also the overflow was installed too low, so it has to be corked else much of the fill water would go to the overflow. Given the poor job of the auto filler install, I really hope they didn't botch something major related to the pool leak.

 

[Texas Splash]

Looks like your pump is sucking in quite a bit of air with all those bubbles I see our of the return jets. Unless you know something to explain that, it's either a suction side air leak or simply because the pools water level is so low. I was curious where your filter waste line goes to. Have you looked to make sure water isn't leaking to waste by mistake? Do your have a leak detection service in your area?

 

[fortunate]

The return jet in the shallow is half above the waterline, so that is creating extra bubbles. The other 2 return jets have PoolSkims, making it hard to see how much air they are shooting. I put a finer sock on them (not shown) and it quickly collects bubbles and floats upwards, so it does seem to be some air coming out of the return jets.

Oh, the waste line was hidden behind the buckets. I've attached a picture. The waste line is in the upper right and joins the drain coming out of the house, which is a gutter hidden in the wall. I have no idea where it goes from there. I assume to "daylight" somewhere, though given the other genius work around here I wouldn't be surprised if it just deadends in the middle of the yard. Unfortunately I don't have a way to monitor the waste to see if it's leaking out that way. It's a good idea though, I will try to find where the drain goes.

I don't know about leak detection services. Generally in Puerto Rico it's hard to find someone who will answer their phone, much less show up and be competent. I know a pool maintenance guy, but he hasn't been much help. I'll ask around.

Do I understand this correctly? The skimmers have a pipe that goes to a valve then the pump. I have closed the valve, so the skimmers don't pull water in anymore (the 2 main drains still do). The closed valve traps water from the skimmer (that is open to the pool) in the skimmer and pipe up to the valve. Once the pool level dropped below the skimmer, I don't see any water in the skimmer! Where did the water go? Doesn't that mean the water in the skimmer and pipe leaked away? If so, how would I go about fixing it?

 

[wireform]

You can have someone pressure test the skimmer line if that's suspect.

 

[fortunate]

OK, cool. If it is that, then I guess tearing up the yard is inevitable? So far everywhere I've looked the astro turf is glued down to a concrete pad. I think the whole Dang yard is done like that, so any digging would require breaking that up and probably replacing the concrete afterward -- uhg.

Assuming the pipe is not cracked, it should only be leaking at a joint: skimmer to pipe, any pipe fittings to make corners, or pipe to valve. The skimmer and valve are accessible, so looking there first makes sense. If that isn't it then it's a cracked pipe or a corner fitting somewhere in the yard. That would be a nightmare.

The alternative is to live with the leak. How severe is a 1/4" per day water loss? That's on top of evaporation.

 

[fortunate]

Wait, I don't see water in either skimmer. That means either both skimmers are leaking or the leak is between where the two join and the valve.

 

[fortunate]

I just went out and filled one skimmer up with hose water. The other also filled. Let's see how fast that drops.

 

[fortunate]

It's been ~1.5 hours and the water in the skimmers dropped 1/2"!

 

[fortunate]

I finally got a pool fixer guy to come out and look. He quoted $763 ($685 + tax) to do a pressure test. Not to fix anything, just to test. Does that seem high? The internet indicates the range should be $100 to $1000, with $300 being the average and higher than that being if finding the problem turns out to be extra difficult. The quote should not be for anything difficult, it's just a standard pressure test and only if that is insufficient would more effort be needed.

The guy also said that one of the skimmers was leaking on the pool side, where the plaster meets the skimmer (so isn't the leak where water in the skimmer disappears). He said scale build up in the corner there indicates a leak, probably because it was installed with glue and not cement. The other skimmer doesn't have scale.

Does that sound reasonable? I can't imagine why a leak would cause scale build up.

It seems pretty obvious the problem is in the skimmer pipes to the pump. Fixing that requires breaking the 4" concrete pad that covers the yard, digging it up, fixing, and replacing the concrete. I asked him for a rough cost to do that, since I don't see a point in spending $763 to verify the problem is what we expect, and then NOT fixing the problem because the cost is too high. He hasn't responded and it's been 2 days.

I put reached out to 2 other pool guys but haven't heard back. It's like pulling teeth to get anything done in PR.

I'm considering plugging both skimmers. I'd rely on the return jet PoolSkims to do all the skimming and the main drain to do the filtering. Vacuuming the pool would require taking out the plug. It's not ideal, but better than wasting water and chemicals.

 

[Texas Splash]

Does that seem high?

Unfortunately - yes. That's fairly close depending on location and amount of companies available to do the work. I paid about $500 last year, and they gave me a discount because I had done a lot of leak work in advance.

Once they pinpointed my leak (in a return jet), they quoted me about $1,600 to do the repair. I passed for now.

 

[fortunate]

I expect there's profiling for pool owners with first world problems. I don't mind paying, but it should be fair and appropriate with the value provided. Also when the customer feels the price is unnecessarily high, it can help to explain what is involved. Nothing is explained, just a single line "pressure test" item with a price. I have no idea, I expect they block off a pipe and attach some device to the other side to check the pressure. How hard can that be?

Do you just need to replace the return jet, or the pipe going to it?

I'm buying some Dang skimmer plugs!

 

[Texas Splash]

Below is my leak detection experience. Might give you some ideas.

Leak Detection (Pressure Side), Results, and Frankenplug

After 9 years it finally happened – the dreaded leak. Here is my story. In the San Antonio area we have black clay soil that is horrible for structural support of any kind and often causes problems for home foundations, fencing, asphalt, pools, etc. When we observed excessive water loss, I...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[fortunate]

Cool thread, thanks! The frankenplug is neat. I wouldn't even feel bad about that solution. I wish it applied to my mess.

Your leak guys, did they give you an upfront quote or did they charge based on what they needed to do? My guy says $763 but I expect he will only do a pressure test and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even have fancy gear like your guys.

 

[Texas Splash]

I think my phone quote was $600, but since I did a lot of prep in advance and they saw I knew what was going on, they cut me a break. Using listening devices is key to pin pointing the leak.

 

[fortunate]

Seems weird to quote for the full extensive leak detection work when a simple pressure test might find it. Ah well. The more I think about it, I've started to accept that just plugging the skimmers is good enough. It's not my forever home and there are plenty of other suboptimal things not worth fixing.

I noticed one of the skimmers has good suction but the other, the one farther from the pump, has much less. The two are connected in series, so it probably makes sense most of the suction is lost on the first one. At the low pump speed I run (electricity is super expensive here), the second skimmer doesn't actually suck any dirt down. The main drains should be enough for circulation for the salt generator.

 

[wireform]

You can fix the skimmer situation by putting in a threaded plug into the strong skimmer. Explanation; you drill a hole say half inch and put the plug in as it'll be a restriction thereby it will send some suction to the next skimmer.

 

[fortunate]

That's a good thought, thanks. My skimmers don't have threads though. It could be some other type of restriction, or a tight fitting insert that does have threads.

However I'm going to plug both skimmers since something after the skimmers leaks, then the unbalanced suction isn't an issue. Skimming will be done by the two PoolSkims I have on the return jets: