Jandy LRZE check IGN control fault

[Jtbeck419]

Hello- new member here!

EDIT: after more research, it sounds like I need to clean the heat exchanger. If so, what’s the best way to get to it?

We recently bought a house with an indoor pool. We’ve put in a new liner and now trying to get the equipment working.

The heater fires up, but gas shuts off within 7 seconds and repeats 3 times before it shows the error code.
Pool guy has replaced pressure switch, flame sensor, cleaned the burners, and then suggested a gas valve is next to replace.

In the meantime, I had an HVAC guy look at it....he was certain it was the flame sensor but he didn’t have one that was long enough. To confirm his theory, he connected a different flame sensor to the wire and held it with pliers. We turned the heater on, and when it fired up, he held a blow torch on the replacement flame sensor. Sure enough, the heater stayed on until he removed the flame sensor form the torch.

I received the new sensor and hooked it up today, and gas is still shutting off within 7 seconds. Upon further inspection, it didn’t look like I was getting a good burn so I put a small fan in front of the burners and that provided enough oxygen that it stays on past the 7 seconds. The problem is that I’m seeing green flames and they start to come out of the front.

I’m thinking it needs cleaned but I saw the pool guy had the burners out and cleaned them about a month ago so I’m wondering if there is a way to clean higher up in the heat exchanger or if there could be another problem causing this. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Bonus question: what color should I paint this pool room? Currently its lavender and that’s got to go!

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Is your heater indoors?

If you are getting a sooted heat exchanger and green flames then you have inadequate air flow to the heater. You should have a soft blue flame with natural gas. Cleaning the heat exchanger is not going to solve the root cause of your problems if you have an air flow problem.

Does your heater have a Fenwal box? When the heater does not fire after 3 trues is the LED on the Fenwal box blinking?

Post pics of your heater for us to see your situation.

@setsailsoon @Pool Clown @ps0303 @swamprat69

 

[Jtbeck419]

Thanks for the reply! The equipment is indoor. There are 2 interior doors, 1 exterior door, and lots of windows so I learned that I need to vent when the heater is on.

The Fenwal box flashes twice after it goes though 3 cycles.

attached pictures of heater and pool
Room

 

[ajw22]

The Fenwal box flashes twice after it goes though 3 cycles.

From Heater Flame Sensing - Further Reading

Fenwal LED Light
The LED will flash on for 1/4 second, then off for 1/4 second during a fault condition. The pause between fault codes is 3 seconds. The LED light on the Fenwal box can indicate the following problems:

• Steady on - Internal Control Failure
• One flash - Air Flow fault
• Two flashes indicates flame no call for heat, then the Fenwal is detecting a flame current when it shouldn't be
• Three flashes indicates no flame current being sensed and ignition locked out

You have a problem with your flame sensor but not what you think. Your flame sensor is indicating you have a flame when it is cold.

Let's see if one of the heater pros stops by and can give a deeper dive into your problems.

 

[setsailsoon]

Jt,

I have no direct experience with your model heater but it sound to me your flame sense is working. You probably don't have sufficient flame and it is shutting down properly. I would check the gas supply all the way back to the meter to be sure there are no pinched valves and I believe there are orifices that were known to cause plugging. Also, spider webs in the tube can cause this issue. I can't stand it when technicians replace parts trial and error method. Not much of a tech if he's doing it this way.

Let us know what you find out and I hope one of the others that Allen flagged will have more direct experience to advise you.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

I missed the 2-Flashes post. That's a different issue. Did you by chance bypass any of the controls when you got this error? This is not consistent with the successful test you did using a flame to "fake" the heater. This indicates the problem is a dirty or misplaced flame sense rod. By the way they almost never fail, it's just a metal rod nothing inside it. Clean it with a dollar bill nothing more abrasive. The failure with these is usually a bad connection at the other end of the wire or a bad ground wire from the burner to the controls ground gang.

 

[setsailsoon]

Just for the heck of it can you check your 24 vac supply from the transformer top right? It looks like there's a wire missing on the lower right terminal. Maybe it's on the back side so I can't see it. But this looks odd.

 

[PoolGate]

Interesting why do you have a cover on a roller for an indoor pool? Also please make sure you have a new, working carbon monoxide detector at the heater. Maybe even 2.

 

[Jtbeck419]

Thanks for everyone’s input! Let me try to clarify a few things and give a little more detail.

If no interventions are made, it cycles through 3 attempts to fire up and then the control stops sending the signal for heat; hence the two flashes on the fenwal board.

I think the root cause is that I’m not getting good combustion, hence the flame sensor isn’t getting enough flame to keep it ignited past 7 second. This theory is solidified by apply a torch to the FS outside the unit and it stays lit. Also, if I point a fan at the front of the unit with the cover off, it stays lit (then the problem is that I get flame rollout with green/orange flames). I suspect the old flame sensor was damaged by flame rollout.

The pool tech measured the gas pressure and it fell within the healthy range. I had the gas company come to check also and they turned my meter up slightly to about 9 water columns. Also, there is a dedicated furnace for this room that is next to pool heater. There is a 1.5” or 2” gas line all the way to this area and then it splits into smaller lines. The furnace needed repair but works great now.

Ive gone through the troubleshooting steps in the attached guide through step 14 and everything checked out.

No idea why they had a cover inside. The photo was from the original listing and the more we uncover in the house the more I find stuff that makes me scratch my head.One of the first things I installed were new co2 and smoke detectors

I hope none of these responses come off in a negative way...just trying to provide as much info as possible. Pool guy sent a bill for almost $800 just for a flame sensor, pressure sensor, and diagnostics and then suggested next step was gas valve at $450 + labor. That’s when I decided I needed to give it a shot and/or find a new pool tech

 

[setsailsoon]

I don't see how the tech can charge you anything when he hasn't solved the problem.

This one is really weird. Are you certain the Fenwal is flashing 2 times not 3? There's an outside chance it's the Fenwal but not likely. I would check the connections on the Fenwal since that could explain the 2 flashing lights. The symptoms you describe indicate the flame sense rod is not in the blue section of the flame or there is a gas supply problem due to obstructed orifices in the burner or gas supply or gas valve. The tech eliminated gas supply issue if he did this when the gas valve was open. But the 2 flashes on the Fenwal indicate a dangerous condition where you have a flame that is not expected (no call for heat from the control board) due to a leak in the gas valve or something like that. The only time I've ever seen 2 flashes is during trouble shooting if I jump the gas relay during the ignition cycle. Do you smell gas in the room? @swamprat69 any ideas?

Chris

 

[swamprat69]

More information and photos would be helpful. It looks like the heater/pool equipment is in a dedicated room. Is this an inside or outside accessed room? You mentioned that there is also a furnace in the same room. Do the heater and furnace share a common vent? Does the room have both high and low combustion air openings? Corrosion at the heater draft hood MAY be indicative of spillage from a blocked or partially blocked vent above the draft hood. Photos of all equipment in the room in the same photo would be helpful showing interconnections between equipment. Also photos of combustion air openings and BTU ratings for both the heater and furnace. Cannot understand replacement of the pressure switch as the heater would not try to fire if the pressure switch did not close! Replacement of flame sensor? ( can usually be cleaned if the ceramic is not cracked ). Did anyone bother to monitor flame signal strength with a multimeter as the burners were dropping out? Were the burner flames and flame sensor observed when the heater was firing? It sounds like parts are being thrown at the heater to try to repair it without properly diagnosing the problem first. Realize that not all technicians are equal in training, knowledge and ability. The easiest way to assure at least minimal competence is to use a company that has "NATE" certified technicians. It looks like the Fenwal date code is early 2003, so I am guessing that the heater is about 17 yrs. old?

 

[Pool Clown]

You can have a burner that "has been cleaned" but if the burner right next to the flame sensor didn't get cleaned thoroughly enough, you could have a lingering dirty/clogged burner problem that would explain the fault.

With some heaters, the burner right below the sensor can be difficult to get to, to clean. However, yours looks like it's pretty straight forward to see if it has a good FULL flame. Meaning from front to rear. Especially the front. A good flame in the front is important in proving the flame sensor. You may need to remove the burner tube to inspect that first inch or so to verify that its clear. Also wouldn't hurt to make sure the orifice for that tube is clear, and again not just passing enough fuel to fire the tube, but the right amount of fuel (not partially blocked or obstructed), so it can completely fire the tube from front to rear.

Note: While airflow may or may not be the issue here, special attention should always be paid to an indoor heater to make sure it has sufficient combustion as well as make up air as to not operate in a sooting condition. Indoor heater installations often get their makeup air requirements overlooked resulting in the air supply being undersized and subject to a sooting condition that may not reveal itself for many months, even years before there is a serious issue with the heater. I would check the exhaust flue as well, to make sure that it has not been compromised by sooting or an unwanted tenant nesting at the termination cap through the roof.

 

[Jtbeck419]

Hello, I wanted to update everyone in case this helps someone in the same predicament.

HVAC guy finally came back and took it apart and my suspicion was correct. He said the heat exchanger was about 90-95% clogged. It took him about 7 hours total to go through and clean it....crevices were too small for a brush so he had to manually use a piece of soft wire to loosen debris.
Works great now and heats like a champ!