Ride, the pool popping is a structural consideration, but without test results we don't know how much should be drained. That, along with other things, greatly affects the structural question. That's what I meant 
I've been advised to replace the water
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dalehileman said:
Yes, that is evidence that the pool water is at fault.
And it is a strong recommendation to others that are reading this that when we say if you cannot see the bottom of the pool at the deep end that it is not advisable to swim, even discounting the physical safety issue of children who may be injured and not seen in deep water. Should something more serious have happened to that child you would have been spectacularly at fault. I hope you had the decency to offer to pay any doctor bills related to this rash as you knew that you and your wife had gotten rashes and yet you still invited them for a swim.
I recall that in other conversations you had been told that this might happen --
waterbear said to you on August 20, 2009, [my emphasis added-anona]
waterbear said to you on August 10th, 2009
So almost a year has past since then and you have done nothing about getting a good test kit. You have done nothing about the CYA level in that time. Now, you want to debate the merits of draining the pool entirely when that risks damage to the pool and is most likely unneeded. If you had a good test kit you would know exactly how much water needed to be drained.
I just want to clarify this for those that have not been party to these conversations before, all available via the search function top of the page BTW. dalehileman, you are really quite fascinating in your own way. I think I will wander over to talk to the wall now.
Melt In The Sun said:
But Melt, I couldn't see what test results have to do with collapsing walls
dalehileman,
I believe others are trying to help you identify whether you actually need to drain the entire contents of your pool and risk potentially collapsing walls or, based on accurate test results, if you only need to drain a portion of your pool water to lower a likely high CYA level. Chlorine, which a powerful disinfectant by the way, can then be added at the correct level (again based on accurate test results) for your new CYA level to shock your pool and combat the bateria or other bugs that are likely causing the rash for your swimmers.
That is how test results relate to your initial post here. The full drain is more than likely not necessary.
I believe others are trying to help you identify whether you actually need to drain the entire contents of your pool and risk potentially collapsing walls or, based on accurate test results, if you only need to drain a portion of your pool water to lower a likely high CYA level. Chlorine, which a powerful disinfectant by the way, can then be added at the correct level (again based on accurate test results) for your new CYA level to shock your pool and combat the bateria or other bugs that are likely causing the rash for your swimmers.
That is how test results relate to your initial post here. The full drain is more than likely not necessary.
Thank you bark for that rundown but after 13 years our intuition favors all new water. The rashes might not be due to organics but to interactions among various substances collecting over the years. Had hoped to hear from others who might have emptied theirs but Alas, if its walls collapse I will probably wish I hadn't
dalehileman said:
Hmmm... I may be able to boil some of this down.
The gist of what you are hearing on this board, is that whatever might be the root cause of the skin issues in your water can most certainly be handled with proper sanitization, and that this sanitization can only occur with proper chemical levels including chlorine level which is dependent upon the CYA level. We can fix the water, but not without the initial levels from which to start.
It also seems that you are going to replace the water regardless, and that is also OK. We can give you the caveats as we see them, but again, we have very little actual finite info about your situation, so the applicability of advice in this avenue is also kinda sketchy.
You may want to consult a local pool professional to tackle the job for you, as they will have more intimate knowledge of the local geology and experience of like installations, costs involved, etc.
Mr. Hileman,
In a seperate email, I am sending you some puctuation marks for you to use at the end of your sentences. I'm sorry your computer has run out of them but don't worry, I have plenty.
They are mostly periods, but I included a few exclamation marks and some question marks in case you felt frisky.
In a seperate email, I am sending you some puctuation marks for you to use at the end of your sentences. I'm sorry your computer has run out of them but don't worry, I have plenty.
They are mostly periods, but I included a few exclamation marks and some question marks in case you felt frisky.
And yet any number of experts say that a full drain has nothing to do with your problem and is likely to cause damage (though replacing some of the water is a great idea) and that getting a good test kit is crucial.dalehileman said:
If you are going to consistently ignore our advice, why bother asking? If you are so sure of your intuition, then go ahead and do what you please, it's your pool. On the other hand, if you actually want to improve the water quality, it would make sense to actually follow some of the advice you spend so much time asking for.
dalehileman said:
Pool walls do not collapse inward
They are designed to withstand outward pressure from the water; not to be "retaining walls" for the hole you put them into.
What this means, is "I want to know about replacing my water, not about fixing my water."
It is evident that OP has come here to find out if there are dangers from draining the pool, and is not interested in how to correct the water in order to negate the need for replacement.
So the answers is yes, there is a likelihood that your pool will suffer damage from a complete drain. The walls could bow in or collapse with no water to offset outside soil pressure. If it's vinyl, you may irreparably damage the liner, and if fiberglass or cement it may pop out of the ground or 'float' if the water table is high enough. You can mitigate the risks and replace the water in stages, drain from one end while filling from the other, or even apply a tarp or layer of plastic between outgoing and incoming water to minimize mixing.
Ohm thank you for that, I can see some sense in your proposed scheme which would at least dilute the bad stuff so I shall talk it over with My Better Half
dalehileman said:
You might want to consider using the expelled water in a useful way. With a purchased or rented submersible pump you can water lawn or plantings and trees using sprinklers, drip or mist systems, etc. Or even share some water with neighbors. The success with how much water you can get depends on the type of pump. I have one submersible that is 0.4 HP that pumps a decent amount but not nearly like a pool or spa pump does. It will push a sprinkler but doesn't have a lot of force. The lower the outflow hose is in the pool the more it has to work pushing the water vertically, so the deeper it is the less force for the sprinkler.
gg=alice
Alice thank you most kindly for those remarks which I shall pass along to my Partner. It has been suggested by others and is probably an excellent idea. However we do have an elaborate irrigation system with thousands of feet of tubing etc for some 2.5 acres surrounded by hundreds of trees but at my advanced age and increasing laziness I'm not sure I could work up the ambition to tap into it
Even if I can't amass the energy your posts are nonetheless most welcome and may eventually benefit others faced with the prospect of draining. Meanwhile conducting it to our large sunken compost pit has been without incident of any sort though it's a very slow process using 100 ft of garden hose and so we might advise others to use larger tubing or as you so constructively mention, suspend the pump not so deeply
Even if I can't amass the energy your posts are nonetheless most welcome and may eventually benefit others faced with the prospect of draining. Meanwhile conducting it to our large sunken compost pit has been without incident of any sort though it's a very slow process using 100 ft of garden hose and so we might advise others to use larger tubing or as you so constructively mention, suspend the pump not so deeply
dalehileman said:
You're very welcome. I certainly know about handling hoses. I have hundreds of feet of them, and at my advanced age, I constantly seek lighter weight and more manageable hoses. I live on acres too and the only part that has auto irrigation is disabled due to needed repairs. The valve that feeds the spigot on my "front forty" has been buried for several years and the cover is very close to a wood fence. I don't even know if I can get it off. On top of all that my dogs love chewing on hose and drip hose, even if they are buried.
My solution for draining, over the years until I purchased my submersible pumps, was to run several hoses out of the pool to down the hill woods. Filling I use two spigots and have enough pressure to get the pool filled relatively fast.
BTW.... I found the perfect hose online at Gardeners Supply. It is light weight, normal diameter (but, also comes in a .5"), doesn't get stiff in below freezing temps, rarely kinks but is very flexible, and comes in delightful colors. It is not cheap but, over time, I'm replacing a lot of my hoses with it. So far the dogs haven't destroyed it even when it whips around in the pool when I top it off every day.
gg=alice
Alice thank you for that report which might suggest to other participant living in hilly country the possibility of siphoning. Unfortunately I live in the flatlands while my compost pit isn't deep enough to use that method. I am however using a submersible pump and single garden hose as I mentioned but one advantage of the slow rate is it's unlikely the pit will fill up as desert soil apparently percolates well
Incidentally we are cautioned not to empty our pools because its walls might collapse. However why has nobody asked the obvious question, why didn't it collapse the day it was installed but before it got filled. The technical aspects are intriguing but I'm inclined to believe my No. 1 Son who has assured me that the fiberglass frame is very unlikely to collapse in our environment
As I feel somewhat guilty about the boilerplate pool data repeatedly appearing in each post I wonder if you should happen to know how to delete it. Maybe Admin will chime in upon this
Incidentally we are cautioned not to empty our pools because its walls might collapse. However why has nobody asked the obvious question, why didn't it collapse the day it was installed but before it got filled. The technical aspects are intriguing but I'm inclined to believe my No. 1 Son who has assured me that the fiberglass frame is very unlikely to collapse in our environment
As I feel somewhat guilty about the boilerplate pool data repeatedly appearing in each post I wonder if you should happen to know how to delete it. Maybe Admin will chime in upon this
I am locking this thread until further discussion has taken place with Moderators and forum admin/owners.
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