Is this plumbing layout really Best Practice?

[snelkhorn]

I had a pool contractor install a new concrete sports pool with a Paramount floor cleaning system. When reading the Paramount manuals, it says to maintain a minimum of 22 psi at the valve. We are only getting 10-15 psi. I then looked at the equipment room (pictures are attached) and noticed the spaghetti layout, and instead of using elbows, the contractor deadheads into tees, routing back and forth, etc. He told me that's how they "always" do their pools so that you can drain the system in the winter. I'm not buying it. From your experience, is this best practice for a pool equipment, piping, etc. layout? Just by looking at it, I could reduce the number of fittings by moving things around and using some thought in the layout. Am I missing something here? I need another 10-15 psi at the Paramount valves too.

 

[Bperry]

I had a pool contractor install a new concrete sports pool with a Paramount floor cleaning system. When reading the Paramount manuals, it says to maintain a minimum of 22 psi at the valve. We are only getting 10-15 psi. I then looked at the equipment room (pictures are attached) and noticed the spaghetti layout, and instead of using elbows, the contractor deadheads into tees, routing back and forth, etc. He told me that's how they "always" do their pools so that you can drain the system in the winter. I'm not buying it. From your experience, is this best practice for a pool equipment, piping, etc. layout? Just by looking at it, I could reduce the number of fittings by moving things around and using some thought in the layout. Am I missing something here? I need another 10-15 psi at the Paramount valves too.

It looks pretty good compared to some I’ve seen. You likely just need a valve slowing the flow to some of the returns if you need to generate more PSI.

 

[snelkhorn]

Why would you put dead-head tees instead of elbows?

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

Odd, but not the cause of your problem.. You could take out all the extra fitting and I doubt it would make much difference.

I can't understand where you are measuring the 10 to 15 PSI???

We need to see the over all operation, which might be hard to do, if it is in a room.

I want to see the pump and I want to see where the water goes into your IFCS.

Do you only have an IFCS or do you also have wall returns?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[snelkhorn]

Jim R, yes, it's an IFCS pool. The pressures of 10-15 psi are readings at the Paramount water valves. The pressure should be 22-24 psi for optimal cleaning. The picture shows 0 psi because it's not cleaning now. I've included pictures of the pump room, pool, and water valves. I run a 12-zone cleaning cycle with two cleaning water valves. Thanks for your help.

 

[ajw22]

Those deadheads with removeable plugs are blow out points for winterizing all the lines. It makes it much easier to ensure water is completely removed from each line. Having them does not effect the normal pool operation.

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

What speed are you running the pump when you are only getting 10 to 15 at the IFCS control head???

At this same time, what is the Filter pressure?

Let's see if @proavia has any comments...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[snelkhorn]

Those deadheads with removeable plugs are blow out points for winterizing all the lines. It makes it much easier to ensure water is completely removed from each line. Having them does not effect the normal pool operation.

I understand we need a blowout point for winterizing. I believe you could accomplish that with one tee located in the correct located inline for each segment.

 

[snelkhorn]

S,

What speed are you running the pump when you are only getting 10 to 15 at the IFCS control head???

At this same time, what is the Filter pressure?

Let's see if @proavia has any comments...

Thanks,

Jim R.

Normal operation - 2150 rpm, filter pressure is 10psi. When cleaning is on, it's running at 3450 rpm, filter pressure 30 psi. I changed the filters last weekend from a recommendation of the PB. The PB sets all settings. Photo of water valve psi is during cleaning at 3450 rpm.

 

[snelkhorn]

It looks pretty good compared to some I’ve seen. You likely just need a valve slowing the flow to some of the returns if you need to generate more PSI.

All return valves are almost closed.

 

[Newdude]

I understand we need a blowout point for winterizing. I believe you could accomplish that with one tee located in the correct located inline for each segment

Adding antifreeze was likely taken into consideration also.

These 3 for example. I could blow air through any of the 3 by turning the appropriate valve but would never get antifreeze in all 3 without the plugs.

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

What HP is your pump???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[snelkhorn]

S,

What HP is your pump???

Thanks,

Jim R.

Image attached. Thanks for your help. Steve

 

[Jimrahbe]

S,

Thanks for the pump info.. I keep looking for an easy reason for the problem, but don't see it yet..

The filter pressure is just the amount of effort it takes to force water through the filter. The bigger the filter the less the pressure.

Not sure if your IFCS is not the same.. Maybe it as simple as some adjustment in the IFCS or the size of the heads or ???

But since I don't have an IFCS, we need to see if @proavia has any ideas...

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim R.

 

[poolmagazine]

I'd say from looking at the photos your first assumption was the correct one. I would have plumbed the first valve in line sideways and run a straight line. Looking at the way this pool is plumbed one more valve would have prevented the 7 different 90 elbows and however many weird T fittings.

 

[snelkhorn]

S,

Thanks for the pump info.. I keep looking for an easy reason for the problem, but don't see it yet..

The filter pressure is just the amount of effort it takes to force water through the filter. The bigger the filter the less the pressure.

Not sure if your IFCS is not the same.. Maybe it as simple as some adjustment in the IFCS or the size of the heads or ???

But since I don't have an IFCS, we need to see if @proavia has any ideas...

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim R.

Jim, thanks for your help!

 

[snelkhorn]

I'd say from looking at the photos your first assumption was the correct one. I would have plumbed the first valve in line sideways and run a straight line. Looking at the way this pool is plumbed one more valve would have prevented the 7 different 90 elbows and however many weird T fittings.

I agree. It seems they made their work more difficult and expensive. I've seen pool plumbing layouts that are well thought out, clean, and easy to maintain. It appears they had a 3rd party plumb the system. It shows.

 

[proavia]

What was the clean filter pressure at 3450 rpm?
30 psi seems a bit high when running full speed (3450 rpm).
If you don't know what the clean pressure is at 3450 rpm, I'd recommend cleaning the filter and finding that out.

Have you removed the tops from the water distribution valves to see if any debris is stuck in there?
Older Paramount systems had a screen on the inlet side that gets clogged frequently. No idea if yours has those or not.

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