Is this a calcium issue?

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A

Alset2

Gold Supporter
Aug 16, 2019
90
Cent Fl
Hello and if this is in the wrong forum I apologize in advance.
This is a bit of a story so I will start with just the basics facts and if we need the longer version, I will be glad to type it.

Neighbors pool installed last year. Dark blue DB plaster
End of January had to have it drained and acid washed due to "calcium" build up. After this I jumped in and am teaching him the TFP way, which he has adhered to (except for cya) since the acid wash.
Now just a few months later the "calcium" build up is coming back.

Prior to January, he admits to not taking care of the PH and let it stay high. He also noted that his chlorinator would scale up in a matter of a few weeks during this time.
Since acid wash, he has kept it between 7.2 and 8. He has to add acid every few days as his PH rises pretty fast...Im thinking it might be due to the acid wash??? His chlorinator has zero scale as of this writing, so that is a huge improvement.

I am attaching pics and a chart of his testing. Yes, he has learned the value of testing himself! lol but basically, I have had him keep CLH at around 6 (anticipating CYA soon), his PH 7.2-8 , his CH is low at 200 or so and his ALK is in the 50 range. Salt is high at 3600-3800. Oh yeh, never any CC .

In the pics you can see the darker color streaks, this is the natural color. The lighter color takes over the rest of the pool and it is pretty evenly covered.

If you brush really hard you can get some dust up, also the DB rep was here last week and put some "scale away" or something on the step and it kind of lightened it up...there's a whole story about him but I'll stick to the facts of the pool for now.

When I use my Spin Labs tester (don't ask. Yes, I am a geek I suppose) the copper reading consistently comes back at 3ppm. This I am not sure about but it's the only thing that's is not normal to me with my limited knowledge.
Any help would be greatly appreciated as the pool installer and the DB rep are really no help at this point and I just feel like this si something we can take care of.

A Little piece of the DB rep story...he tried telling us that they discovered your way (TFP / CSI) of taking care of the water was recently discovered to be wrong. So I told him that I have been following this way for 5 years now and I have NEVER had to clean scale off of my chlorinator plates. He simply said, "every pool is different." lol well I can't argue with that.

Its and 12K pool with Hayward equipment if that matters
 

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Alset2 said:
Hello and if this is in the wrong forum I apologize in advance.
This is a bit of a story so I will start with just the basics facts and if we need the longer version, I will be glad to type it.

Neighbors pool installed last year. Dark blue DB plaster
End of January had to have it drained and acid washed due to "calcium" build up. After this I jumped in and am teaching him the TFP way, which he has adhered to (except for cya) since the acid wash.
Now just a few months later the "calcium" build up is coming back.

Prior to January, he admits to not taking care of the PH and let it stay high. He also noted that his chlorinator would scale up in a matter of a few weeks during this time.
Since acid wash, he has kept it between 7.2 and 8. He has to add acid every few days as his PH rises pretty fast...Im thinking it might be due to the acid wash??? His chlorinator has zero scale as of this writing, so that is a huge improvement.

I am attaching pics and a chart of his testing. Yes, he has learned the value of testing himself! lol but basically, I have had him keep CLH at around 6 (anticipating CYA soon), his PH 7.2-8 , his CH is low at 200 or so and his ALK is in the 50 range. Salt is high at 3600-3800. Oh yeh, never any CC .

In the pics you can see the lighter color streaks, this is the natural color. The darker color takes over the rest of the pool and it is pretty evenly covered.

If you brush really hard you can get some dust up, also the DB rep was here last week and put some "scale away" or something on the step and it kind of lightened it up...there's a whole story about him but I'll stick to the facts of the pool for now.

When I use my Spin Labs tester (don't ask. Yes, I am a geek I suppose) the copper reading consistently comes back at 3ppm. This I am not sure about but it's the only thing that's is not normal to me with my limited knowledge.
Any help would be greatly appreciated as the pool installer and the DB rep are really no help at this point and I just feel like this si something we can take care of.

A Little piece of the DB rep story...he tried telling us that they discovered your way (TFP / CSI) of taking care of the water was recently discovered to be wrong. So I told him that I have been following this way for 5 years now and I have NEVER had to clean scale off of my chlorinator plates. He simply said, "every pool is different." lol well I can't argue with that.

Its and 12K pool with Hayward equipment if that matters
Click to expand...
Post up some numbers from your TF-100 drop test kit, can’t make any judgements without actual test results, preferably multiple over the course of a few weeks. Can’t trust the spintouch accuracy.

The “TFP way” is just testing the water with a reliable test kit, not putting anything in the water that has unknown or unproven effects, and maintaining chlorine at an appropriate level determined by how much CYA is in the water. There’s nothing magic about it.
 
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Thank you.
The test results are with the Tf-100 test kit.
The Spin Lab was just a fun thing, I never use those results for any meaningful data . I primality used it this time to check for copper.

The tests results are posted in the attached spread sheet...those are all TF drop tests.
The summery I give in my post is pretty typical of the spread sheet though...BTW, are you all able to open the SS?
If Not, I will list them in the body of the thread, I just thought it would be better to attach the spread sheet.
Please let me know, Ill take care of it.
 
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FYI_ I edited the OP to correct that the DARK color streaks the pics are showing is natural color, the "lighter' haze surrounding is what takes over the pool and is being called calcium scale.
My apologies for that
 
mknauss said:
Minimal would be caught in a filter. I suspect the spin touch is wrong.
Click to expand...

Alset2 said:
My thoughts too
If this was a calcium problem, wouldn't it show up as scale on the chlorinator plates too?
Or is that line of thinking wrong?
Click to expand...

mknauss said:
The swcg would have scale way before anywhere in the pool.
Click to expand...
Thank you for that confirmation. Gives me a little hope I have learned something over the years on here lol .

Any ideas what to consider?
After the acid wash, I thought we were home free, then I went away on vacation for 3 weeks and when I got back, he told me the "scale" had come back.

Also, could it have anything to do with the rapid PH rise every day?
 

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Alset2 said:
Thank you.
The test results are with the Tf-100 test kit.
The Spin Lab was just a fun thing, I never use those results for any meaningful data . I primality used it this time to check for copper.

The tests results are posted in the attached spread sheet...those are all TF drop tests.
The summery I give in my post is pretty typical of the spread sheet though...BTW, are you all able to open the SS?
If Not, I will list them in the body of the thread, I just thought it would be better to attach the spread sheet.
Please let me know, Ill take care of it.
Click to expand...
Are you sure those results are from a TF-100? How did 45ppm for TA come about? Same for CH. you really need to test for CYA because the safe chlorine level is entirely dependent on it. If you haven’t added any CYA and the chlorine is 6.5ppm, that’s a no-no.
 
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Does the surface feel any different in the dark areas versus the light areas?
If it's truly calcium scale, you should feel a difference between those areas. But it doesn't make any sense that the lighter color and/or perceived calcium scale isn't more consistent throughout the pool. Darker colored plasters seem prone to these issues and the quality of the application also plays a part.

Have your neighbor register to the forums and get a proper test kit.
Once he's registered, provide a link for him to this post.
This will make it much easier for him to maintain his pool using TFP methods.

Use PoolMath for test results and post a full set - including CYA.

Maybe try a different PS for metals testing.
 
Thank you everyone for chiming in.

I will work on him to register for sure.

As for the tests results, he is actually using the big Taylor kit. I don't remember the number but it's the one with the same regents as the TF. It does however have the instructions for doing more precise tests (using more drops), so he may be doing that. And/ or its a learning curve of testing your own water. I'm just glad he sees the value of doing it himself now, I usually find it hard to convince people of this fact. He has fully come around to the importance of the drop tests and TFP way.

He is monitoring this thread so he will see that I have advised him wrong in keeping the CL higher lol... I'm still learning also. I had 2 reasons for this, first we kept planning on adding CYA any time and 2nd, I wanted him to have a bit of a buffer while he is getting used to taking care of his own pool. As you can see the high CL was really only in the beginning. Can this high CL cause this (or any) problem?

We will have to check on the feel and post back. But initially I did not feel any difference BUT, I was originally thinking it was algae, so I was feeling for slime...

The only other testing I have for metals is the Lamotte Color Q , we can give that a run and post findings here.

On the "mottled", is there anything that can be done to prevent this?

He is learning that the dark color might have been a mistake (for his sanity), but he is upset that no one mentioned this until now that there is an issue... that seems to be the pool builder and DB reps go to answer.

Once again, thank you all. I have been telling him how helpful everyone is and how much I have learned form you all.
 
Alset2 said:
Thank you everyone for chiming in.

I will work on him to register for sure.

As for the tests results, he is actually using the big Taylor kit. I don't remember the number but it's the one with the same regents as the TF. It does however have the instructions for doing more precise tests (using more drops), so he may be doing that. And/ or its a learning curve of testing your own water. I'm just glad he sees the value of doing it himself now, I usually find it hard to convince people of this fact. He has fully come around to the importance of the drop tests and TFP way.

He is monitoring this thread so he will see that I have advised him wrong in keeping the CL higher lol... I'm still learning also. I had 2 reasons for this, first we kept planning on adding CYA any time and 2nd, I wanted him to have a bit of a buffer while he is getting used to taking care of his own pool. As you can see the high CL was really only in the beginning. Can this high CL cause this (or any) problem?

We will have to check on the feel and post back. But initially I did not feel any difference BUT, I was originally thinking it was algae, so I was feeling for slime...

The only other testing I have for metals is the Lamotte Color Q , we can give that a run and post findings here.

On the "mottled", is there anything that can be done to prevent this?

He is learning that the dark color might have been a mistake (for his sanity), but he is upset that no one mentioned this until now that there is an issue... that seems to be the pool builder and DB reps go to answer.

Once again, thank you all. I have been telling him how helpful everyone is and how much I have learned form you all.
Click to expand...
Have him do regular water test and post those results. There’s no extra ways to get more accurate results with the TA and CH so I’m concerned about the test legitimacy. Those two do have a small change you can make when you anticipate high TA or CH but the results for those will be multiples of 25. Post the results in this thread as many won’t open eternal attachments for security.
 
Bperry said:
Have him do regular water test and post those results. There’s no extra ways to get more accurate results with the TA and CH so I’m concerned about the test legitimacy. Those two do have a small change you can make when you anticipate high TA or CH but the results for those will be multiples of 25. Post the results in this thread as many won’t open eternal attachments for security.
Click to expand...
Understood, and we will get that going. Hopefully he can register and start getting to know you all
 
Alset2 said:
Understood, and we will get that going. Hopefully he can register and start getting to know you all
Click to expand...
Also have him add 30ppm of CYA TODAY if it’s not already been added to the new fill. The super high FC (without any CYA to buffer it) may be able to bleach surfaces like pool plaster and make it look like calcium scale. That’s a stab in the dark for me but maybe someone with more experience can comment.
 
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Ok today's tests are below.
Using the Color Q it had zero iron or copper.

I tried to get some better pics but the camera really washes it all together, but I did submerge the camera and got a close up of an extremely bad spot that is on the corner of one of the steps. Maybe it will reveal something to someone. This whole area in this pic is contaminated (for a frame of reference).

FC= 4.5
CC= 0
PH= 7.5
ALK= 50
CH = 200
CYA=0 (but added 3 lbs today
salt =3000

When I rub my fingers over the clean spot vs discolored, I do not feel any difference. My friend thinks it does feel a little rougher IIRC.

He said he will register so he can participate. Until then, I will continue to be liaison.
Also, there is about 1/8" of light calcium build up on the very edge of the outside plates on the SWG. I mean very little, but thought I would mention. This is since he cleaned it 2 months ago.
 

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So we should have some more (current) reading posted today, but I wanted to share with you all an email he got from the DB rep and get your thoughts:

.
Mr. Mike,

You have done an exceptional job of testing and recording your water chemistry. For illustration purposes I have highlighted the chemistry reading that are out of range. xxxx (deleted company name ...for now) recommend readings are as follows.

pH 7.4 – 7.6
Alk 80-120 ppm
Calcium 200-400 ppm
Chlorine 1 – 3 ppm
Cyanuric Acid 50-80 ppm

As you can see from the chemistry history the water has not been balance since you started testing. Typically, when this chemistry condition exists on a newer pool it can be rectified by draining and acid washing and or the use of an in-pool treatment such as Jacksmagic.com

Once rectified the pool must be balanced as outlined above to preserve its beauty and longevity.
Click to expand...
 
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