Intellicenter wiring question - changing outlet to be controlled by relay

[petepool]

I have the setup in my sig.

Just installed string lights on my patio and want to plug them directly into the GFCI outlet that is attached to the side of my pool panel. This outlet sources power from the same breaker as my pool lights, which run on relay #1 in pic below. The outlet has constant power, so not powered by the relay. I'd like to rewire the outlet to be switched off a new relay, so I can control the string lights independently via the app.

Currently the outlet is powered via the purple line from breaker A. Goes into line side of outlet (B), and gray wire (C) back to neutral bar.

Outlet also powers Relay 1. Load side of outlet (D) goes to wire nut with blue wire (E), up to Line 1 on relay (1). Line 2 is the other neutral of the outlet (F). Load 1 and 2 are the two wires going to the pool lights (G).

A few questions:
- Was this wired like this to have the pool lights run off a GFCI circuit without actually putting in a GFCI breaker? Is this necessary on today's low voltage lights?
- Why do the two gray wires need to go to Line 2 and Load 2? Couldn't the gray wire from the lights at G just go directly into F to compete the circuit?
- What is the best way to get the outlet switched by a new relay?

thanks

 

[Jimrahbe]

Pete,

They are using the GFCI out as the GFCI for your pool lights. This is a very common....

If you have a transformer between the IntelliCenter and the lights, then I don't think you need to have GFCI protection, but I have no idea what your local code requires. Show me the transformer...

I tried to look at the wiring, but my brain is not working tonight, so I'll give it a look tomorrow..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Ahultin]

Was this wired like this to have the pool lights run off a GFCI circuit without actually putting in a GFCI breaker? Is this necessary on today's low voltage lights?

Yes. My ahj requires the pool light transformer to be on a gfci even though the low voltage pool transformer isolates the line/low voltage from eachother.

Why do the two gray wires need to go to Line 2 and Load 2? Couldn't the gray wire from the lights at G just go directly into F to compete the circuit?

They could but since you have dual pole relays it doesn't really help or hurt anything to have the line and neutral both switched.

What is the best way to get the outlet switched by a new relay?

If you switch the gfci as desired you will then need to switch it on to switch the pool lights on. Since I like to over engineer, how about just adding another gfci outlet below the intellicenter panel? Supplies wouldn't be too spendy (<$30) and you have two extra relays in your intellicenter (7 and 8)
1. ~6" nipple ( I'd use ridged but pvc would be fine)
2. 3/4 pvc male adapter x2 or 2 water tite bushings for rigid
3. Pvc 1 gang weatherproof box
4. 15 amp gfci wr outlet
5. Pvc in use cover
6. ~3' 12/3 triplex thwn

You can pigtail the blue wire thay also feeds the existing gfci and run the new tail to Line 1 of an unused relay. Run black from load 1 to the new outlet below the ic load center. White/neutral to the neutral bar. Green/ground to the ground bar. If you use a metal weatherproof single gang then make sure to pigtail in the box so you can ground the box.

 

[Ahultin]

Side note:
It is not totally clear but it sure looks like the visible screws on the existing gfci are gold. It also appears that the grey wire going into that side lands on the neutral bar which. The gold screw is generally indicative of the hit side which would mean that the gfci is wired backwards.
Looked at one of the older pictures and it's clearer that it's silver

 

[petepool]

Rather than installing a new outlet, what about replacing the existing breaker for the pool light with a GFCI breaker, and then putting the existing outlet on its own relay?

 

[Ahultin]

Rather than installing a new outlet, what about replacing the existing breaker for the pool light with a GFCI breaker, and then putting the existing outlet on its

That would work as well but a gfci breaker would cost twice what adding an outlet would
Siemens QF120A Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter, 20 Amp, 1 Pole, 120 Volt, 10,000 AIC, Black https://a.co/d/8PcQRxQ

 

[petepool]

thanks, i'll probably do that, more for aesthetics since I don't really need to have two sets of outlets at my panel. Should take less time as well vs. assembling the parts and putting it all together.

The 15A one is only $48, so only a few bucks more vs. installing the new outlet. I assume 15A is more than enough for 4 globrites which is only ~60 watts.

In terms of wiring:
Pool lights: hot from new GFCI breaker to Line 1 on existing relay, red line on pool lights out from Load 1, Gray line from pool lights straight to neutral bar (ground remains connected as is)
GFCI outlet: hot from existing breaker to Line 1 on new relay, Load 1 to line side of outlet (purple currently), neutral (gray) from outlet to neutral bar. (Only 2 wires connected to outlet)

Missing anything?

 

[Ahultin]

thanks, i'll probably do that, more for aesthetics since I don't really need to have two sets of outlets at my panel. Should take less time as well vs. assembling the parts and putting it all together.

The 15A one is only $48, so only a few bucks more vs. installing the new outlet. I assume 15A is more than enough for 4 globrites which is only ~60 watts.

In terms of wiring:
Pool lights: hot from new GFCI breaker to Line 1 on existing relay, red line on pool lights out from Load 1, Gray line from pool lights straight to neutral bar (ground remains connected as is)
GFCI outlet: hot from existing breaker to Line 1 on new relay, Load 1 to line side of outlet (purple currently), neutral (gray) from outlet to neutral bar. (Only 2 wires connected to outlet)

Missing anything?

you will need to pigtail your neutral wires together and connect the tail to the load terminal on the new gfci breaker (only 1 wire allowed under the terminal screw)
I would stick with 20 amp as you have 12 ga wire and what looks like a 300 watt transformer plus whatever you plug into the outlet.
For the hot side you can run from the new breaker to the line 1 of the pool light relay, then add a loop from the other side of that line 1 screw to line 1 of the new relay. Load 1 of the existing light relay to the red wire going to the transformer . Load 1 of the new relay to the purple wire for the gfci convenience outlet.

 

[petepool]

My plan was to have the pool light and the outlet on separate breakers. The outlet will stay on the old 20A (non-GFCI) breaker and the pool lights would go on the new GFCI breaker (can do 20A if you think better for future). Each would use their own relays.

 

[Ahultin]

In thinking about this, have you considered the easy, compliant and free route of just cutting off the plug end on the string lights and hard wiring them to the relay? You would just need to loop from line 1 and line 2 on the light relay to line 1 and line 2 on the extra relay, run the black to load one , white to load 2 and green to the grounding bar. You would be left with controllable pool lights controllable string lights, all on gfci while maintaining an always hot convenience receptacle at the pad.

 

[petepool]

yes definitely considered that initially. I just wasn't sure if cutting off the plug was acceptable from a safety perspective. Full disclosure - the string lights connect to an outdoor extension cord (40'), which then runs to the pool panel. So I would be cutting off the plug of the extension cord. I would love to do since it is the simplest solution, but want to make sure no increased risk.

this is the cord: Go Green Power 40 ft. 16/3 Heavy Duty Extension Cord, White GG-13740WH - The Home Depot

 

[Ahultin]

yes definitely considered that initially. I just wasn't sure if cutting off the plug was acceptable from a safety perspective. Full disclosure - the string lights connect to an outdoor extension cord (40'), which then runs to the pool panel. So I would be cutting off the plug of the extension cord. I would love to do since it is the simplest solution, but want to make sure no increased risk.

this is the cord: Go Green Power 40 ft. 16/3 Heavy Duty Extension Cord, White GG-13740WH - The Home Depot

So... NEC 590.4(C) Branch Circuits. All branch circuits shall originate in an approved power outlet, switchgear, switchboard or panelboard, motor control center, or fused switch enclosure. Conductors shall be permitted within cable assemblies or within multiconductor cord or cable of a type identified in Table 400.4 for hard usage or extra-hard usage. Conductors shall be protected from overcurrent as provided in 240.4, 240.5, and 240.100.

With the extension cord, would it be compliant, only if "temporary", would it pose a safety hazard, maybe.
How are you running the extension cord? The biggest concern with it being an extension cord (and specifically the one you bought being only 16 guage wire which according to the listing is rated to 13 amps) would be that the breaker would be rated for a much higher amperage than the cable could handle. Someone down the line COULD theoretically attempt to plug a high draw item into the cord causing the cord to melt and start a fire. If it is going up the wall and under the eaves with sufficient support where that is unlikely, that's not much different than if it was plugged in.

Id be happy to lay out the lets over engineer the *** out of this and suggest PVC conduit running to an under eave pvc box with an appropriate in use cover, 12/3 thwn wire and a GFCI outlet , but not everyone has my level of obsessiveness