Intellicenter - how to set freeze protect pump RPM?

[WesW]

New Intellicenter (firmware 1.064) and Pentair VSP installed this week due to a full pad equipment upgrade. Have pool and spillover spa with shared pump, plus second Pentair VSP for waterfall. Freeze Protect is enabled on all three circuits, and is correctly turning on all pumps and alternating the valves between the pool and spa ever 15 minutes -- all great.

My question is how to configure the RPM for each pump while running in Freeze Protect? It appears to use the default RPM for each circuit while in Freeze Protect, which is too fast in some cases. (For example, Spa circuit has speed of 2800 RPM which is good while in the spa, but also what it runs at when enabled for Freeze Protect which is too much). For the Pool\Spa pump, there is a circuit name "Freeze" with a lower RPM, but it doesn't seem to have any effect? Ideally, I'd like them just to run around 1800 RPM when in freeze protect.

 

[ajw22]

Higher RPM aways wins.

The default for those circuits need to be lower RPM then the FREEZE circuit for the FREEZE RPM to be used.

 

[WesW]

That seems like a problem for the spa, as it seems intuitive to hit the Spa button on the app\control panel and have it run at 2800 when you want to hop in. But, if the only way to have a lower speed freeze protect in the spa is to lower the spa circuit default RPM, then isn't the Spa button somewhat useless for getting the RPM right?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Wes,

Not sure I fully understand... Freeze control is generally used when the system is off.. When freeze control kicks on, no other circuits are on, so it runs at the freeze control speeds..

Please help me understand the problem..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[WesW]

"When freeze control kicks on, no other circuits are on, so it runs at the freeze control speeds.."

That's maybe the issue... For example right now, no schedule is running, so all pumps are off:


It's cold now, so it's in Freeze Protect (Pool currently this 15 minutes), but that is running both the Pool and Freeze Protect circuits, and the higher Pool RPM is winning. I'm wanting to understand why it's enabling the Pool circuit?



I think same issue with the Spa - when it toggles over to the Spa freeze protect 15 minutes later, it also turns on the Spa circuit, trumping the Freeze Protect again:

 

[ajw22]

Try upgrading to 2.026 from the Pentair website using a USB stick. Lots of bugs are fixed.

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

• Significant bug fixes in Logic and schedules, Freeze protection, Pool cover, Heaters, Pumps, Sanitizers, Lights, Setup wizard, Security, OTA, Login.

 

[WesW]

OK - thanks for the confirmation that the settings are generally correct!

I might try the firmware upgrade next week, as I don't want to do it while we're still in such cold weather.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Wes,

Forgetting the spa , just for a minute..

If I turn off freeze protect for the Pool circuit and set a speed for the "Freeze" Circuit, then with the Pool Circuit off, when freeze control comes on, my pump will run at the freeze protect speed... So, if you had no spa, then it appears this would work...

But, with a Spa, you need to be switching back and forth between the Pool mode and Spa mode and I suspect that means you would have to have both Pool and Spa set to on with freeze, which as you have already found out, makes the "Freeze" speed circuit worthless.

Looks like my idea kind of sucks....

Not sure if version 2.026 fixes this issue or not..

Sorry for getting your hopes up,

Jim R.

 

[WesW]

Yeah - it seems odd that it tries to turn on the Pool and Spa circuits when under freeze protect. My only guess it that perhaps it's something to do with each circuit needing to be activated so that it changes the input\output valves correctly too? (Hmmm, and maybe that's why if you don't have a Spa, then it doesn't need to run the valves, so it doesn't need to run the circuit either?)

 

[Turbo1Ton]

None of the Intellicenter documentation that I can find lists any description of the pre-defined Freeze circuit. I think it is likely left over from the easy touch/screenlogic programming, maybe?

I have never set up anything with the pre-defined Freeze circuit on my IC. I simply have the freeze protection check box checked, and it turns on those circuits when it needs to. Which is a little bit different because my pool circuit already runs 24/7, but it will allow it to cycle between the pool and spa circuits when freeze protect is on. Unfortunately as Allen said, the highest speed wins, so unless you could set your circuit speeds to a lower value during the freeze time and change it back once it's over, that might work.

May be worth a call to Pentair to understand exactly what the pre-defined Freeze circuit is and how it could be used.

You are correct, if freeze protect were not turned on for one of the two circuits, then it would not attempt to cycle between the two.

Just FYI - FW 1.064 has a glitch that if there is a power cycle/reset, the freeze protection TURNS OFF on both the pool and spa circuits. So if you have a power flicker, you need to immediately check your IC settings to ensure that freeze protect is still turned on. I figured this out the hard way because I also have a feature circuit that turns on to allow flow through a valve, and that caused the pump to run, but it wouldn't cycle between pool/spa and my spa suction line froze up. Fortunately did not cause any damage, but boy was I po'd when that happened. Had to sit out there with a heat gun slowly heating the suction line at the diverter valve to the ground.

--Jeff

 

[WesW]

FW 1.064 has a glitch that if there is a power cycle/reset, the freeze protection TURNS OFF on both the pool and spa circuits...

Ugh, that sounds ugly! Any idea if the latest 2.x FW still has the same problem?

 

[Turbo1Ton]

FW 1.064 has a glitch that if there is a power cycle/reset, the freeze protection TURNS OFF on both the pool and spa circuits...

Ugh, that sounds ugly! Any idea if the latest 2.x FW still has the same problem?

I suspect the latest fixed it as 2.017 had it corrected. I am staying with 1.064 bc I am also using nodejs pool controller for automation, which has not been updated to use anything later than 1.064.

-- Jeff

 

[Jimrahbe]

Wes,

Some have found that when running the freeze control on a Pool and Spa system, that the Spa will drain to empty in the middle of the night. You might want to see how your system is working after it has been switching between the Pool mode and Spa mode over a long period of time.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[poolfusq]

FW 1.064 has a glitch that if there is a power cycle/reset, the freeze protection TURNS OFF on both the pool and spa circuits...

Ugh, that sounds ugly! Any idea if the latest 2.x FW still has the same problem?

I just learned this the hard way and was really kicking myself for thinking I messed up the programming. Luckily I don't have any busted pipes (that I know of).

I want to upgrade FW asap! But too worried to do it in the middle of this freeze.

I also think I have another issue that I haven't searched up yet (do you happen to know about this being true or not?): I recently upgraded from intellitouch to intellicenter. When the intellicenter loses power (ie i turn the breaker off) and comes back online, the settings revert to what the installer setup (ie all my schedules are gone, freeze mode settings are gone, etc.). It could be that I wasn't properly logged in at the panel (I am now, but don't want to check these things during the freeze).

 

[WesW]

Update: I upgraded to FW 2.026, and this behavior has changed for the good! Now, when in Freeze protect, though both the Spa and Freeze protect circuits are still active, it's running at the Freeze circuit speed instead! (screenshot below) And, the second pump that doesn't have a Freeze circuit associated with it is running at it's default RPM, which is also what you'd expect. As such, it seems that the new firmware has resolved my above issue.

I posted some additional details in the main FW 2.026 thread.

Thanks for the discussion everyone!

 

[poolfusq]

Same, 2.026 freeze settings are fixed from 1.064. But my old intellitouch never had these problems fwiw.