IntelliCenter Bizarre behavior

[ogdento]

hey @Turbo1Ton, just so I understand... the pumps work when connected to either comm A or comm B?

Reason I ask is (and thanks for prompting me to look at it!) on the Intellicenter, comm A and comm B use two different comm chips - the data lines on the two Intellicenter ports are not in parallel. So there are effectively two comm channels or comm busses, if you will... port A goes to U13 on the main board while port B goes to U12. This is different from something like a surge board, expansion board or the Intellitouch i7/i9 that each have multiple comm connectors that are in actuality tied in parallel to a single comm chip.


So when you connected your jumper, you effectively disabled both chips (probably didn't do any damage) because whatever is polluting the comm bus from the heater or pi was now doing it to both busses.

Interesting side effect of the Intellicenter's comm port configuration is if by chance the Comm B port was totally dead - but the Comm A port worked - it might just be a matter of replacing U12.

 

[ajw22]

Looking like this is a heater board/nodejs(RPi) issue.

Sounds like that is confirmed.

Did you have any lightning thunderstorms about the time this started?

Sounds like you got an EMP that came in through the heater RS-485 wire and took out the heater and RPI connected together at the expansion board.

 

[ajw22]

Interesting side effect of the Intellicenter's comm port configuration is if by chance the Comm B port was totally dead - but the Comm A port worked - it might just be a matter of replacing U12.

TT had the Intellichlor working on one comm port and his two pumps working on the other which confirmed both channels are operational.

 

[ogdento]

Right, thanks Allen! I guess my last not was me just talking out loud/filing this tidbit away for later... somebody might find themselves in a situation where Comm A works but Comm B does not, because now they use two separate chips.

@Turbo1Ton I imagine you've got a usb -> 485 dongle on the pi... is the usb port still functioning?

 

[ajw22]

Right, thanks Allen! I guess my last not was me just talking out loud/filing this tidbit away for later... somebody might find themselves in a situation where Comm A works but Comm B does not, because now they use two separate chips.

Your comments contributed to the Wiki - Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Right, thanks Allen! I guess my last not was me just talking out loud/filing this tidbit away for later... somebody might find themselves in a situation where Comm A works but Comm B does not, because now they use two separate chips.

@Turbo1Ton I imagine you've got a usb -> 485 dongle on the pi... is the usb port still functioning?

Makes sense then why the green/yellow data lines were not interconnected. And does not look like I fried anything by jumpering together as everything seems to be working normal, except the heater and RPi.

I do have a USB ->485 dongle. I have not pulled that off to ensure the USB port is still working. I will check that, likely tomorrow, as we are getting ready to head out for the evening.

Did you have any lightning thunderstorms about the time this started?

For the event on Monday night, no odd weather patterns. There was a storm Tuesday late night and we took several lightning strikes nearby. Neighbors house was actually struck directly. Fortunately the fire station right across the street saw it and reacted quickly, so no injuries or major loss of property.

As the storm came by after I did my troubleshooting from Monday, I didn't notice anything awry until last night when the spa was scheduled to run.

Deep down I was hoping that wasn't it because the other items were still working. This will be the second heater board I have put in. Good news is the IntelliCenter board and my network switch are still good (that's what got taken out last time, along with the heater board).

--Jeff

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Right, thanks Allen! I guess my last not was me just talking out loud/filing this tidbit away for later... somebody might find themselves in a situation where Comm A works but Comm B does not, because now they use two separate chips.

@Turbo1Ton I imagine you've got a usb -> 485 dongle on the pi... is the usb port still functioning?

Wife is taking longer than expected... I checked and the USB port is still operational. Looks like maybe only the dongle got taken out.

--Jeff

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Alright, this is still an issue. The last couple of nights I have tried to turn on the spa for the kids. I have been running the heater manually, no issue there. But Friday night and last night, when the IC switches to the Spa circuit, after about 30 seconds, it loses comms with the pump. Have to completely reset the panel in order to get the comms back with the pump. As long as I leave it in Pool mode, comms work fine. As soon as I select the Spa circuit, 30 seconds later, the comms drop (pump shows 0 RPM and the local controls are active).

@ogdento - Are you aware of anything that would cause the comms to drop when the different circuits are selected?

--Jeff

 

[Ahultin]

I read thru this and did not see you state that you had checked your intelliph. Ours went wonky like this when the intelliph board/cable melted. Caused all kinds of weired intermittent rs485 errors. Additionally did you check continuity on the rs485 cable running between intellicenter and the heater?

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I read thru this and did not see you state that you had checked your intelliph. Ours went wonky like this when the intelliph board/cable melted. Caused all kinds of weired intermittent rs485 errors. Additionally did you check continuity on the rs485 cable running between intellicenter and the heater?

I have not checked the iPh. I have reworked it already because of the melted connector, but I can certainly pull that out of the circuit to rule it out.

Yes, the cable running to the heater is fine. I determined earlier that it is likely a fried comms chip on the heater causing the issue there. Now that I say that, I still have it connected up to the 485 bus on the heater. Maybe I need to disconnect it and wire it through the fireman's switch until I replace the heater board, to see if that makes a difference.

Thanks for making me think through these things. I'll do some more checking here shortly and post back my findings.

--Jeff

 

[Turbo1Ton]

I only want to make one change at a time. I removed the RS485 connection between the heater and the IC. Reconnected it as a 2 wire system. On an initial check, that appears to have corrected the issue although I'm not certain as the pump comms issue seems to come and go. So I will try running like this for a bit and see what happens. Will post more information after a bit.

--Jeff

 

[ogdento]

Jeff the only thing that comes to my mind is what @Ahultin said about the iph... The little white relay switches the comm line on/off so I'm thinking it's possible - depending on how it's all wired - that a bad relay (which has happened on every blown iph I've seen) could interrupt the comms? It doesn't seem to me like there's a bad comm chip somewhere because I would think it wouldn't work at all, and you have a very predictable and repeatable failure when the spa turns on.