Infinity/vanishing edge, drains/returns settings

[rhosch]

Just read through the manual. Looks like I need to remove the cover to verify exactly what I have (single body or pool/spa), and to see how they have it wired. Also, have a few questions now for my builder. Pentair manual and website makes it sound like perhaps the system should have included two motor actuated valves. If so, why did they use a Jandy in my system (not that I mind, just odd)? Maybe there are multiple ways these can be ordered and they didn't order it with valves. Whatever, just curious.

It does seem like I should have valve actuators available even if it's just a single body model so, assuming my builder doesn't cough up another valve, maybe it's just the meager $150 or so expense of a valve to automate that swap over at night?

 

[mknauss]

Your builder should have a record of the Pentair part number. It would be needed for the Warranty registration. That will tell you what model you have.

Either way, an additional valve actuator should be able to be configured to manage your needs.

 

[HermanTX]

Thanks guys. Looking at the controller, it says for pool and spa, and there is a "V" button factory labeled pool, spa, spill etc so I assume this is the pool/spa version? The inside of the controller panel door has model 5k42 on it but hard to tell exactly what that matches on Pentairs site.

Looks like it's time for me to just read the manual through.

Did the PB provide an invoice with the list of model numbers? Also, you or the PB must file for warranty and it requires Model # and Serial #. So someone (within the PB admin) has info as to what was supplied to you. Furthermore, the PB should come out now to give you instructions.

 

[rhosch]

I'm sure he has all the model info on file for warranty. He's been great to work with and anything I don't know now is because of questions I didn't know to ask along the way. His invoice was fairly generic - EasyTouch 4, Intelliflo VSF etc, not specific part numbers. Good point - I'll ask him to provide specifics and let me know how to handle any warranty issues. We've been waiting on final inspection (got dinged for some landscape steps near the pool not having a handrail, took forever to get that installed) after which he is scheduled to go through everything with me. Thinking through and trying to figure out some of this now (you guys have been very helpful) lets me know what questions I need to ask him.

 

[HermanTX]

I would suggest you remove the cover and snap a few picture of the automation panel outside. Post them and you can get some feedback about how it is connected. That will generate some questions to ask him. It may be correct but I guess the only question that is evident now is - Why did he only put in 1 automated valve? I guess the other is why does it flow back as you described in earlier post.

 

[rhosch]

It looks like the automated valve is connected to the dedicated valve actuator header. And... if the header is all functional, the inlet/outlet/auxA/auxB makes me thing this is a pool/spa board?

I don't understand enough yet about programming options for the easytouch. I thought the buttons for pump and then 1-3 were to operate relays, but, I guess that doesn't make sense because the pool lights are I think Pentair intellibrite? The color changing ones controlled directly through the easytouch. And the valve seems to be using the dedicated header, not a relay.

I thought I had taken a pic of the relays and not just the main board but seems I forgot. I'll go back and snap a shot of the whole enclosure internals. There look to be a total of 8 relays installed.

 

[mknauss]

P/N 520712 is the single body EZTCH 4 mother board.

 

[HermanTX]

Yep, I agree with Marty based on part number and also it states 4P which indicates the ET 4 but for Pool only (a single body of water).
So the question to the PB would be why did he provide a single body controller when in fact you have 2 bodies of water?
It is a little different because normally a spa over flows into the main pool but your main pool overflows into the basin (i.e. spa) so a dual body controller i.e. PS (for Pool & Spa) may have worked if you set the plumbing and valving to match your set up.
Now the PB may have a way to make yours work but clearly he needs to get hands on to see the issues himself and offer a solution.

 

[JamesW]

I would put an IntelliFlo XF just on the Infinity edge if you have the right plumbing to do so.

 

[rhosch]

Yeah, I saw the 4P sticker on the board and had just looked that up and saw it was single body. Pentair is a little confusing with their part/model labeling. The front of the panel says for pool and spa and the schematic on inside of panel door says 5k42 for pool and spa. And it has the header for all 4 valves. I wonder if this is similar to the ET4 /ET8 distinction where a single resistor present or absent signals to the firmware which "model" is present - so headers, labeling, cutouts etc are as generic or inclusive as possible to accommodate all model combinations?

In any case, I really think I just need the extra valve actuated in the current setup so this version of the controller looks to be ok for that.

I had wondered about a two pump setup too. Seems like the biggest advantage in keeping the bodies separate is eliminating this backflow issue. The PB did install a check valve I believe on the auto fill in the catch pool and other than this particular valve we haven't yet encountered any other issue that makes me think a single pump setup won't work well. Whether the current plumbing setup could accommodate a second pump if we thought that was necessary....? Another question to add to the list!

 

[HermanTX]

@rhosch I was thinking of some possible ideas but it would be helpful if you could provide a plumbing diagram. This would be diagram that the PB would have created to show all the plumbing as to what returns were going to pool, what suction lines were set up to the pump from each the basin and the main pool, what valves placed where, etc. Do you have that or did the PB create one so the plumbing crew could set up the equipment pad?

 

[rhosch]

I do not have that yet but will add that to the list of things I ask the PB for. It would definitely help for many reasons, not the least of which is I keep forgetting which pipe is what! Guess I should go put some permanent labels on there. PB crew marked them during construction but that has largely worn off. Or, maybe I should just ask them to mark the plumbing.

 

[HermanTX]

I do not have that yet but will add that to the list of things I ask the PB for. It would definitely help for many reasons, not the least of which is I keep forgetting which pipe is what! Guess I should go put some permanent labels on there. PB crew marked them during construction but that has largely worn off. Or, maybe I should just ask them to mark the plumbing.

Marking the pipes are really critical. I made labels and and stuck them on each pipe. Then I wrapped them with clear duct tape (complete circle so it would not come off). I then took a marker and drew arrows to show flow direction. If your family like mine, things only break when I am not there and trying to explain to the wife or kids what to do is difficult unless they see labels and flow direction.

 

[rhosch]

Ha! In my family, labels and flow directions wouldn't actually help the family understand anything, other than as a landmark... "You see the pipe marked catch pool, main drains? Find the valve just to the right and turn it opposite of whatever it currently is..." But they will definitely help me as I forget things later (like, tomorrow probably).

 

[JamesW]

I would put a separate IntelliFlo XF pump on the infinity edge if the plumbing will allow.

 

[jayflip1914]

We have a new pool with about 25 ft of the 42 ft length on one side as an infinity edge. Drop is 4 ft to the catch basin. We love the look, still trying to find best setup of drains, returns, skimmers.

The main pool has two skimmers opposite the infinity edge, two main drains in deep end, three normal return jets and twwo 18" spills - one on each side of the infinity edge. The catch pool has a single center skimmer and 4 main drains. This is all operated by a single intelliflo VS pump.

The builder left the valves set so the main pool drains are off, main pool skimmers do very little, and essentially all water goes over the edge for the waterfall effect. Catch pool is probably 90% main drains, 10% skimmers.

With everything going over the edge the skimming effect of the upper pool is obviously very good. However, I think there is a little cloudiness in the main pool because it isn't being filtered well. With a single pump, I don't think I can open main pool drains and use the infinity edge at the same time. If I do, and that valve is partially between the two drains (upper and lower), hydrostatic pressure forces water from upper pool through the valve into the catch pool, which then overflows.

I can turn the lower catch pool drain system off, shutting off the infinity edge, to filter the upper pool. But, at least at the moment that is a manual process.

Any thoughts or suggestions on how to best manage this setup? I've thought about paying for an electric jandy valve to swap to filter main pool at night, but I think I'd have to upgrade the controller to handle another zone. Not sure what else I could try.

I am mapping out my plumbing, and I will ONLY be using a VS pump, ONLY one. Looking at my drawings, since the main pool and catch basin are being pulled by one pump, you need a jandy check valve on your catch basin drains/skimmers. I placed a red line on where the jandy check valve should go. That area is tight, and you will need to get creative. Removing those equivalent of two 90s and getting some straight length in there will give you space for a check valve (JANDY 7305 STRAIGHT CHECK VALVE CPVC - 2 INCH X 2.5 INCH)

The main drains will need to be on in unison with the catch basin drains to keep everything nice and peachy (clear). A 50/50 split will not operate your edge.
65 basin / 35 main??? I hope I can get a 60 / 40 mix. That quick bend from basin pipes to pump is not ideal. Your main drain/skims have a nice long run. I hope you have room to extend the basin line behind the automatic valve.
.

We have a new pool with about 25 ft of the 42 ft length on one side as an infinity edge. Drop is 4 ft to the catch basin. We love the look, still trying to find best setup of drains, returns, skimmers.

The main pool has two skimmers opposite the infinity edge, two main drains in deep end, three normal return jets and twwo 18" spills - one on each side of the infinity edge. The catch pool has a single center skimmer and 4 main drains. This is all operated by a single intelliflo VS pump.

The builder left the valves set so the main pool drains are off, main pool skimmers do very little, and essentially all water goes over the edge for the waterfall effect. Catch pool is probably 90% main drains, 10% skimmers.

With everything going over the edge the skimming effect of the upper pool is obviously very good. However, I think there is a little cloudiness in the main pool because it isn't being filtered well. With a single pump, I don't think I can open main pool drains and use the infinity edge at the same time. If I do, and that valve is partially between the two drains (upper and lower), hydrostatic pressure forces water from upper pool through the valve into the catch pool, which then overflows.

I can turn the lower catch pool drain system off, shutting off the infinity edge, to filter the upper pool. But, at least at the moment that is a manual process.

Any thoughts or suggestions on how to best manage this setup? I've thought about paying for an electric jandy valve to swap to filter main pool at night, but I think I'd have to upgrade the controller to handle another zone. Not sure what else I could try.