Infinity/vanishing edge, drains/returns settings

[rhosch]

We have a new pool with about 25 ft of the 42 ft length on one side as an infinity edge. Drop is 4 ft to the catch basin. We love the look, still trying to find best setup of drains, returns, skimmers.

The main pool has two skimmers opposite the infinity edge, two main drains in deep end, three normal return jets and twwo 18" spills - one on each side of the infinity edge. The catch pool has a single center skimmer and 4 main drains. This is all operated by a single intelliflo VS pump.

The builder left the valves set so the main pool drains are off, main pool skimmers do very little, and essentially all water goes over the edge for the waterfall effect. Catch pool is probably 90% main drains, 10% skimmers.

With everything going over the edge the skimming effect of the upper pool is obviously very good. However, I think there is a little cloudiness in the main pool because it isn't being filtered well. With a single pump, I don't think I can open main pool drains and use the infinity edge at the same time. If I do, and that valve is partially between the two drains (upper and lower), hydrostatic pressure forces water from upper pool through the valve into the catch pool, which then overflows.

I can turn the lower catch pool drain system off, shutting off the infinity edge, to filter the upper pool. But, at least at the moment that is a manual process.

Any thoughts or suggestions on how to best manage this setup? I've thought about paying for an electric jandy valve to swap to filter main pool at night, but I think I'd have to upgrade the controller to handle another zone. Not sure what else I could try.

 

[HermanTX]

We have a new pool with about 25 ft of the 42 ft length on one side as an infinity edge. Drop is 4 ft to the catch basin. We love the look, still trying to find best setup of drains, returns, skimmers.

The main pool has two skimmers opposite the infinity edge, two main drains in deep end, three normal return jets and twwo 18" spills - one on each side of the infinity edge. The catch pool has a single center skimmer and 4 main drains. This is all operated by a single intelliflo VS pump.

The builder left the valves set so the main pool drains are off, main pool skimmers do very little, and essentially all water goes over the edge for the waterfall effect. Catch pool is probably 90% main drains, 10% skimmers.

With everything going over the edge the skimming effect of the upper pool is obviously very good. However, I think there is a little cloudiness in the main pool because it isn't being filtered well. With a single pump, I don't think I can open main pool drains and use the infinity edge at the same time. If I do, and that valve is partially between the two drains (upper and lower), hydrostatic pressure forces water from upper pool through the valve into the catch pool, which then overflows.

I can turn the lower catch pool drain system off, shutting off the infinity edge, to filter the upper pool. But, at least at the moment that is a manual process.

Any thoughts or suggestions on how to best manage this setup? I've thought about paying for an electric jandy valve to swap to filter main pool at night, but I think I'd have to upgrade the controller to handle another zone. Not sure what else I could try.

Post some photos of the pool and the equipment pad to get a better understanding of your setup.

 

[rhosch]

I'll try to get some photos this weekend.

In the meantime, I just swapped over to main pool drains for the first time in about 2 weeks, and the cloudiness we were seeing cleared up in less than a day. So, I guess I'm on the right track.

Manually swapping over every couple of days isn't the end of the world, but it would be nice to either find a "set and forget" combination of valve settings, or automate the valve to swap so that when water features and lights go off at night, and VS pump dials back the speed, it filters the main pool.

 

[rhosch]

There is a return on the left, shallow end, near the spill. There are two more returns on the tanning ledge, behind the loungers. And of course, the spills on either side of the vanishing edge.

Two main drains or drain heads in deep end, and a skimmer on either side of tanning ledge.

 

[rhosch]

4 main drains in the catch pool. There is a single skimmer in the center (under flower pot). At the moment this pic was taken, the vanishing edge was off and the pump was pulling from just main pool drains and skimmers.

 

[rhosch]

OK, the automated valve on the right is for returns and/or spills. At night this automatically turns off the spills, but the VS pump keeps going with a low flowrate for the returns. Single line for all 3 returns, and each spill has a line with valve to fine tune flowrate.

Manual valve on the left is for drains/skimmers. I currently have it on the main pool side which is far left. There are two independent skimmer lines and a single drain for the two drain heads. The right 3 are the catch pool with single skimmer and two drain lines each with two drain heads. And valves on all of these to control drain vs skimmer for main and catch pools.

When this manual valve is set halfway, so that I'm pulling from both main pool and catch pool at the same time, it actually doesn't. Pressure from the main pool causes reversal of flow in the catch pool lines, pushing water into the catch pool until it overflows. Not good.

I haven't played with trying to find a valve position that is barely open to the main pool such that the pump pulls just a bit from main pool but there isn't enough pressure and/or flowrate to push water against pump suction down into the catch pool. I'm not sure that is even possible. Doesn't sound like a great solution.

I guess I could close off main pool floor drains and only pull from the skimmers, in combination with catch pool, since the pressure problem is coming from the deep end floor drains. But, I think it's those drains I need to circulate and filter the main pool. The vanishing edge does a good job of skimming.

Seems like automating that valve would be ideal - filter main pool at night, and turn on infinity edge during the day. But I don't have any more capacity in the easytouch 4 controller. I did read a little here about the resistor mod to turn it into an easytouch 8. What relay would be needed to control another jandy automated valve?

Or, does anyone have any other suggestions that might work better than anything I've thought of?

 

[mknauss]

Relays are not used for automated valves. Your ET4 can control 2 valves. Valve A and B.

 

[rhosch]

That sounds promising at least.

What "4" things can the easytouch 4 control? I think I currently have it controlling pump, pool lights, and some landscape lights that are all on a single zone. I had assumed the automated valve was the 4th. Can it control valves A and B in addition to whatever the other "4" things are? Or do they count as part of those 4?

Even if I need to mod it to an easytouch 8... sounds like I wouldn't need anything other than the Jandy automated valve then?

My pool equipment is still a bit of a mystery to me. We are still waiting on final city inspection of the pool, and the last thing planned was for the builder to sort of go through everything with me. But it's taken so long that I've had to start sorting this out myself.

 

[mknauss]

Just to check, you have the full ET4. Not the 'lite' version, correct?

 

[mknauss]

Is this a new pool? If so, the builder needs to come out and replace all those grey handled ball valves that you will not be able to turn next year. Neverlube valves should be used.

 

[mknauss]

One relay is dedicated to the pump (the SWCG power is run through that relay to insure the power is off to the SWCG when not in Pool Mode). From your signature, there are no other items that need to be controlled with a relay. Though I suspect you have lights, which will need a relay (one for every transformer you have).

 

[rhosch]

I think so. It just says Easytouch.

 

[rhosch]

Yeah, new pool. So those valves are Crud huh? Good to know.

 

[mknauss]

I see two lights, and a Fountain. Does the Fountain have a pump dedicated to it?

Does not appear to be the lite version.

 

[rhosch]

Just the single pump. I assumed that "fountain" was the automated Jandy valve?

One light is all pool lights, the other is all surrounding landscape/steps/fire pit.

 

[mknauss]

So they used a relay to control the valve. You do not need to do that. A Feature Circuit should be used.

Do you have Screenlogic?

 

[HermanTX]

Just the single pump. I assumed that "fountain" was the automated Jandy valve?

One light is all pool lights, the other is all surrounding landscape/steps/fire pit.

If you review the manual for ET - it is step to operate 2 valves plus 4 relays (one relay is the pump/SWCG)
I have copied the info from the manual
Connect the Valve A actuator cable plug into the INTAKE (suction) 3-pin socket, and Valve
B actuator cable plug into the RETURN three-pin socket on the right side of the
motherboard (for more information, see Item 2 and 3 of Plumbing requirements on page 3).
For motherboard connection details, refer to “EasyTouch Motherboard Connections,” on
page 13. For wiring details, refer to “EasyTouch System Wiring Diagram,” on page 23.

As indicated by @mknauss they seemed to use a relay rather then the dedicated valve connection. You would need to remove your cover plate to verify that.
You have 2 bodies of water so it should be set up as if it were a pool & spa whereas if you were using 2 automated valves, they would rotate depending which you want to occur. It may be a little more complex because you wish to have suction from the basin and return to the pool to create the infinity edge affect but that appears doable.

Also attached is the full manual. Refer to pages 13 and 16

 

[HermanTX]

So they used a relay to control the valve. You do not need to do that. A Feature Circuit should be used.

Do you have Screenlogic?

@mknauss I am just thinking out loud as I have been researching to upgrade my automation. Is there a difference if the ET is a Pool & Spa version vs. a Pool only version? Is that a possibility why they connected the infinity edge "fountain" to a relay? Does the Valve A and Valve B still function in a Pool only version?

 

[mknauss]

The Pool Spa version can control 4 valves, Intake, Return, Valve A and Valve B
The single body version can control Valve A and Valve B only, to the best of my knowledge.

My two body Pool Spa version I have three valves, Intake, Return, and Valve A being used.

 

[rhosch]

Thanks guys. Looking at the controller, it says for pool and spa, and there is a "V" button factory labeled pool, spa, spill etc so I assume this is the pool/spa version? The inside of the controller panel door has model 5k42 on it but hard to tell exactly what that matches on Pentairs site.

Looks like it's time for me to just read the manual through.