IC40 cold water light on but water is 86 degrees

My IC40 cold water light is on and the cell is off as happens in winter when the water is actually too cold. Pool is 86 degrees right now. There's still some chlorine in the pool so it happened recently. I have the cell set to 100% output with a single speed pump. I'm running 4 hours during the day and 4 hours at night. That has been keeping the chlorine level where it should be (20,000 gallon 16x32 pool). The cell is probably 2 years old at the most. I'll take it apart tomorrow to see if it needs acid washed but, assuming that's not the issue, is there a fix short of dropping the big bucks for a whole new cell? I'm not getting the life out of these cells that I think should be possible.

Thanks for any help.
 
The Pentair flow switch has a thermister inside that helps calculate the salinity. Normally, what happens is the cell reports Low Salt when the salt level is actually just fine. But rarely the Cold Water light.

@Jimrahbe can join in tomorrow with some ideas.
 
wb,

I am not sure that the sensor in the flow switch is the one that determines cold water or not, but assume it is.. I suggest that you perform the following test provided by JamesW.

Pressing and holding the “More” button launches the System Status Mode. When the lights finish scrolling, the percent lights indicate hours of usage in 1,000s. For example, if the 40% light lights, that indicates 4,000 hours.

Version 3.1 on adds the ability to determine system temperature. Pressing the “More” button after the display shows 1,000s of hours of usage, will show temperature as follows:

Lights…………….....………Temperature
No LEDs………….…..………Below 30F
40%..........................36 to 45F
40% and 60%............46 to 55F
60%..........................56 to 65F
60% and 80%............66 to 75F
80%.........................76 to 85F
80 and 100%............86 to 95F
100%.......................96 to 99F
100% blinking……..….over 99F
All LEDs blinking……...Sensor bad

Hold down the MORE button on cell for 6sec and watch the Cold Water/PWR light if it goes RED that tells you the temp sensor is bad and you need to swap out the flow switch/temp sensor (520736). If it doesn’t turn RED it could still be bad but it just hasn’t failed completely and then you need to make sure salt level in the pool is 3500 or above if it is swap flow switch/temp sensor (520736)

The temperature sensor is a 10k thermistor. Its resistance varies based on the temperature. The way it varies is known precisely. So the box measures resistance in ohms and calculates the temperature.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
This morning, the cell seemed to be running normally, but when I did the temp test, the 4 and 6 lights lit up showing the cell thinks the temp is below 55. Then the temp red light came on and the cell shut down. When I held in the more button for 6 seconds, the red cell light lit up indicating the temp thermistor is shot. I saved the last cell for parts when it failed, so I'll try to take the flow switch out of the old one and put it in the current cell.

The cell only has 2000 hours on it, so I'm still surprised I'm having an issue so soon.

Thanks for the great advice, guys!
 
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I received the new aftermarket part from Amazon and installed it Saturday 6/15. Got all green lights and was happy. Tonight, I see that the cold water light is on again. I did the diagnostic as before and the red temperature light came on suggesting a bad sensor. I looked at the fins when I had it apart and there was no buildup on them.

Is it possible I got a sensor that worked for less than 2 days and then went bad, or could there be something wrong with the main unit? Its about 2 years old with about 2000 hours. I dont know when it actually went bad between Saturday and Monday.
 
Press and hold the More button until the lights scroll and note which percentage light lights up then immediately press the More button again and note which percentage lights light up.

You can replace the flow switch again or disconnect the temperature sensor (green and white wires) or wire in a 10 k resistor in place of the thermistor or install a 10k thermistor in the pipe near the cell and wire that in as the temperature sensor.
 
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Is it possible I got a sensor that worked for less than 2 days and then went bad, or could there be something wrong with the main unit? Its about 2 years old with about 2000 hours. I dont know when it actually went bad between Saturday and Monday.
How handy are you with a volt meter and/or ohm meter (aka a DMM) ? If you are familiar with a DMM I can post a process to tell if it's the IC or the replacement thermistor that's bad.

I had a similar problem in that my intellichlor would work/not work with the low salt light being off/on. This is also traceable to a bad thermistor. For the time being I've wired in a fixed 10k resistor (as suggested above ) to "solve" the problem. But, like you, I wanted to know which part was bad.

If your cold water light is on then that means the microcontroller in the unit (if working) is reading a higher than normal voltage. My first inclination would be that one of your new connections (green or white wire) is not good or intermittent. You can try twisting them about and seeing if the diags change. Alternatively you can opt just to redo those connections. If you're sure the connections are good, then it's DMM time.
 
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How handy are you with a volt meter and/or ohm meter (aka a DMM) ? If you are familiar with a DMM I can post a process to tell if it's the IC or the replacement thermistor that's bad.

I had a similar problem in that my intellichlor would work/not work with the low salt light being off/on. This is also traceable to a bad thermistor. For the time being I've wired in a fixed 10k resistor (as suggested above ) to "solve" the problem. But, like you, I wanted to know which part was bad.

If your cold water light is on then that means the microcontroller in the unit (if working) is reading a higher than normal voltage. My first inclination would be that one of your new connections (green or white wire) is not good or intermittent. You can try twisting them about and seeing if the diags change. Alternatively you can opt just to redo those connections. If you're sure the connections are good, then it's DMM time.
I twisted the wires together and soldered them instead of using the cheesy press-in connectors
How handy are you with a volt meter and/or ohm meter (aka a DMM) ? If you are familiar with a DMM I can post a process to tell if it's the IC or the replacement thermistor that's bad.

I had a similar problem in that my intellichlor would work/not work with the low salt light being off/on. This is also traceable to a bad thermistor. For the time being I've wired in a fixed 10k resistor (as suggested above ) to "solve" the problem. But, like you, I wanted to know which part was bad.

If your cold water light is on then that means the microcontroller in the unit (if working) is reading a higher than normal voltage. My first inclination would be that one of your new connections (green or white wire) is not good or intermittent. You can try twisting them about and seeing if the diags change. Alternatively you can opt just to redo those connections. If you're sure the connections are good, then it's DMM time.

I soldered the connections because the wires from the IC40 are stranded and the wires from the new flow switch are solid (or vice versa, I can't remember), so I think the connections are good. I have a good multimeter and would like to try the further diagnostics. Let me know what to do.

Also, those who have put a separate 10k thermistor in the line, can you recommend a good one? There are lots of junky parts out there. Likewise, where did you buy the 10k resistor you're using? Are there other considerations, or will any 10k resistor work.
 
Pentair 520272 Air/Water/Solar Temperature Sensor with 20-Feet Cable Replacement Pool/Spa Automation Control Systems. It's the same temperature sensor that goes to the Easytouch automation.

You don't even need the 10k resistor. It just simulates a thermistor that is at 77 degrees.

If you disconnect the green and white wires, the cell will ignore the sensor and use 77 degrees as the default temperature.

If you want to use a resistor, any 10k resistor will work.

If you want to test the existing thermistor, test the resistance and compare it to a 10k thermistor chart.

The Hayward or Jandy temperature sensor will also work. You just need to drill a hole in the pipe and then secure the sensor with a clamp.

Hayward GLX-PC-12-KIT 10K Thermistor Temperature Sensor with 15-Feet Cable Replacement Kit for Hayward Salt Chlorine Generators.
 
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This is pretty simple but you may have to break/open one of your connections. As I don't have my notes in front of me, I'm going by memory. That means I may have the green and white wire functions swapped herein. It'll be obvious which is which when you make a measurement.

First you'll need to remove the insulation on both of your newly made connections. IIRC the green wire is connected to the ground/common in the IC40. The white wire is the "sense" line and goes to an ADC in the IC40. With your thermistor still fully connected measure the voltage from the white wire (+ on DMM) to the green wire (- on DMM). It should read a positive voltage between 0 and 5 volts. If it's negative, my memory is bad and the wires functions are reversed from the above.

If your thermistor was good and the water temp at 77F, you'd measure 2.5V. Higher temps produce lower voltages, lower temps make higher voltages. Ideally 50F would produce 3.33V. A temp of 100F would produce 1.84V. If you measure a voltage inbetween these limits, your IC40 is likely good, at least from a temp measuring viewpoint.

If you measure 5V then either your sense wire (white) connection is open/broke or the thermistor is truly bad. If you measure 0V then either wire connection could be bad or your DMM isn't making good connections or the power supply inside the IC40 is dead. To go further you'll need to cut/open the sense connection (white wire). With the negative lead of the DMM still connected to the "good" green side, measure the voltage on the sense line connected to the IC40. It should read near 5V (mine read 4.96V). If it's 0V recheck your DMM connections. If they are good then I'd say your IC40 is dead Jim.

You can, if you wish, put the DMM in ohms mode and measure the resistance between the white wire connected to (only) the thermistor and the green wire. A good value depends on temperature of course but I'd expect between 11 kohms and 8 kohms. Be warned my thermistor measured in and out of range dependant on ... phases of the Moon.

If you read something other than 5V (+/- 0.2V) on the open circuit test for the sense line, then I'd cut open the ground wire too and redo the measurement, making doubly sure the DMM connections to the IC40 side wires are good.

If you come to the conclusion that the IC40 is bad then I'd do one last thing. Put a fixed 10k resistor in place of the thermistor and verify "wacky" operation persists. OTOH if days go by and everything works well, that points towards a bad replacement thermistor, as unlikely as it seems to be.

As to a test resistor, I picked one I had lying about. Nothing special is needed but do measure it's resistance with the DMM ahead of time.

ETA: at 86F the voltage (divider) measurement ideally should be 2.23V with a working thermistor. I've not calculated the tolerance range but I'll guess it to be less than +/- 0.1V.
 
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Measuring the resistance of the thermistor should return a consistent reading based on the temperature.

The resistance should be consistent with a 10k thermistor chart. If it doesn't match, the thermistor is bad.


The fastest and easiest thing to do is just disconnect the thermistor to see if that makes it work.

Once the thermistor is disconnected, the cell uses a temperature of 77 degrees when calculating salinity.
 
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