I use pool store testing

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Dirk


Nope, not fanning flames for fun. I am merely asking what qualifies someone as an expert in the pool industry? I am more than happy to give you my office number & direct extension if you believe me to be a troll. I have browsed numerous threads on this forum but a forum is supposed to be just that, a place open to a variety of ideas. That hopefully lead to a better way or solutions to problems, this appears to be an agenda. In essence we in the pool / spa industry are doctors dispensing advice, but I want to know if my doctor attended medical school in Honduras or Johns Hopkins.

The state of the pool maintenance industry? I am open to new ideas but those ideas should be supported by scientific facts, similar to anti-vaxers that use pseudoscience to back their beliefs. I do not profess to be an expert, this industry continues to evolve and I learn new things daily. I have been fortunate to learn from some of the best people in the industry and I see things done by "pool professionals" every day that make me cringe. If your way works for some that's fantastic, if the goal was a clear pool & healthy water and the objective was achieved that's a win, win.

I have read plenty of post painting pool companies as evil entities trying to take a homeowners money. The pool business is not that lucrative and if the plan is to get rich selling frivolous pool products to unaware clients those people made a poor career choice. I do agree that there are times when products are not necessary to maintain a healthy pool but I would say that's the exception not the rule.

I was at a job site recently along with a pool person that recently moved here, he installed three Pentair MasterTemp heaters into a common vent and the PVC piping looked as if a child was given a can of glue & saw. I counted an excessive amount of 90 degree elbows, he couldn't calculate turnover rate, figure out how to size a filter based on square feet of filtration and GPM per SQFT, he never tested gas pressure nor installed secondary regulators on a 2lb supply line, and so on. My point is not all pool people are created equally, we both bid on this job and he was only able to compete by being cheaper. This is someone that had zero business being in business but he claims to be an "expert".... NO you're not! go find another career this industry already has a tarnished reputation.
 
Biscuits & Gravy said:
I am new here and a good portion of the information provided by "experts" is dangerous. I have been in the pool industry for 25+ years and I'm not a one pole'r working out of a Toyota pick up. What qualifications are needed to earn the label expert? The pool industry does not typically attract the best & the brightest. The people that worked for a year at a pool company, had very little training and potentially training by those that didn't know themselves and felt compelled to open a pool company are just as qualified as a homeowner with no experience. The information that you provide is only as good as the information that was supplied to you.
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Welcome to TFP Biscuits & Gravy. Would you like to elaborate please on what you refer to that is "dangerous?" This is indeed a forum for helping people solve problems. The chemistry advise from "experts" in this forum are based soundly on science.
 
Biscuits & Gravy said:
I do agree that there are times when products are not necessary to maintain a healthy pool but I would say that's the exception not the rule.
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I don't know that I can agree with that. Pool stores sure push a lot of algaecides and phosphate removers that our method finds totally unnecessary. I have never put a drop of either in any of my pools.

They also tout an ideal FC of 3 ppm with no regard to CYA and advocate weekly shock which only serves to increase CYA further. Then once the inevitable algae outbreak occurs, they tell the customer they have "chlorine lock" and need to drain and refill and the whole cycle starts all over again.

We hear this tale over and over and over again. Good, knowledgeable pool stores seem to be the exception rather than the rule. I'm not saying that they are doing this maliciously. It's likely due more to ignorance than anything. But the net result to the consumer is the same -- a green pool and an empty wallet.
 
B&G,

Sorry, there seems to be some confusion (and maybe it's on my part)! ;)

My original post was actually directed at jeffchap, who may or may not have been responding to you, so may or may not have been fair, as it seemed he might have misconstrued the gist of your post, if he was in fact addressing it. Both cfherrman and I agree that, intentionally or not, your comments support what TFP, at least in part, is trying to do here: dispel the myths of pool care and teach to pool owners, through science, experience, and a massive amount of real success stories, a viable alternative to the large number of pool maintenance professionals that are not doing a proper job.

The paragraph in which I use the words "flame, for fun" was directed at the OP (original poster) and not you, at all. His was such an outlandish statement, at least in the context of this forum, that it's hard to believe someone would come here to make it. Perhaps he thought he was being helpful, but that means he didn't bother to find out, at all, what TFP is about.

So I meant no offense to you at all, and wasn't even directing my comments to you, at all.

I've erased twice now, a rebuttal to your latest post, because I realized I'm not that interested in hearing myself drone on about it, nor in engaging you in a debate about the "state of the pool maintenance industry." In short: TFP works for me, as it does 10s of thousands of others. I learned about TFPC as a direct result of being burned, pretty badly, by several pool professionals, so I'll never use one again, and have little interest in debating about that, as nothing you could offer would change my mind on the subject. I hope that doesn't come across as close minded. Not at all. I did all the studying on the subject it required, I have come to a conclusion, and I don't need to explore it further. I am my pool's expert now, and the result of my expertise speaks for itself, via my pool.

Cheers!
 
I do occasionally find myself in a pool store when I can't find what I need in a hardware or big box store. When I do visit a big box store and I encounter someone in the pool section I ask if they are a pool owner (sometimes they are lost) and tell them about TFP.com. EVERY single one is thankful, one looked it up on his phone and was astounded to find that he didn't need all the pool chems he was about to purchase. I recently bought a house with a neglected pool and system. With the info I have acquired from following the TFP method while maintaining my previous pool the transition held no anxiety nor unanticipated issues. TFP ROCKS!
 
Vickery said:
I do occasionally find myself in a pool store when I can't find what I need in a hardware or big box store. When I do visit a big box store and I encounter someone in the pool section I ask if they are a pool owner (sometimes they are lost) and tell them about TFP.com. EVERY single one is thankful, one looked it up on his phone and was astounded to find that he didn't need all the pool chems he was about to purchase.... TFP ROCKS!
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Same experience here! If I can get more of my community buying only what's needed, then we'll ALL have a better selection of ONLY what we need! And MORE toys!! lol
 
Been on both sides....put in a pool 4 years ago, went with the "pool school" my PB offered which was basically tabs and shock. Worked great for about three years. An occasional algae outbreak, but always shocked into submission.....until last summer. Algae got to the point that it was no longer affected since my CYA was off the charts and the chlorine was no longer effective. Even went to the pool store and got suckered into the little packet of whatever it was that was supposed to cure it. Nope. Finally had to drain about 40% of my pool and at the same time got on here to read more. I had signed up when we built, but never bothered to read or learn what it was about. Thought it was just a bunch of pool owners sharing ideas and pics. In fact I think my first post or two was what brand of pucks I should buy. Didn't go over very well....lmao.

Since that fiasco, my pool has been clear and clean with not a hint of algae. I'm not anal about it, but keep my numbers in range with ease with nothing but bleach and acid thus far. CYA is now 50-60 instead of WELL over 100 when the problems arose. Only downside is I have to use a good amount of acid now to keep my pH down whereas it used to be the other way around using the old method. Never used a drop in my first three years of pool ownership. Also I get some chalkiness or scaling on my tiles now that I didn't get before. Seems to be worse when my chlorine level is higher and not as bad during the off-season when I don't chlorinate as much. Tried various ways to remove it, but nothing works. But bottom line is this method is easier, cheaper and works better than what I was doing before using the various chemicals.

I'm a believer and have sold others as well who have experienced the same problems I did.
 
In 2012 we decided it was time to install a pool. My wife had wanted one for years, but our previous home just didn't have a good yard for installing a pool. Plus, it was in PA where we wouldn't have a very long pool season. After moving to NC and now having a good backyard for a pool, we took the plunge.:swim:

My nirvana goal for a pool is zero maintenance. I know it is impossible, but I made all my decisions regarding our pool with that objective in mind.

First, I researched types of construction. For me, fiberglass was the clear winner....no changes over time as the pool surface ages, very slippery (difficult for algae to attach), we had no need for a very deep or very large pool. I found the TFP forum and studied posts in all the subforums. The information was very helpful when talking to potential pool builders; they knew that I knew what I was talking about. :)

After selecting our pool builder, I told him that my goal is a zero maintenance pool. He looked at me kind of funny...I said I knew it was impossible but challenged him to get as close as possible.

Looking back (this will be our 7th season with our pool), the pool builder did a good job meeting my challenge. And, sharing equal credit is the TFP forum.:goodjob: Each Spring upon opening the pool, it is always a challenge to get the water clear and chemicals balanced. People who see the pool right after we remove the covers always ask if we are going to drain the pool. I tell them "no" and come back in 10 days. By that time, the water is clear and the chemistry is just right. All thanks to TFP.

I've had a few challenges over the years with some surprise problems. The members here have always been extremely helpful in offering advice. I have to say that almost every bit of advice I have received on this forum has been helpful in solving my problems.

The only time I was ever in a pool store was when we were looking for pool builders, and I thought the pool stores might have some recommendations.
 

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Preach the TFP gospel Vince...:study:

VinceL said:
In 2012 we decided it was time to install a pool. My wife had wanted one for years, but our previous home just didn't have a good yard for installing a pool. Plus, it was in PA where we wouldn't have a very long pool season. After moving to NC and now having a good backyard for a pool, we took the plunge.:swim:

My nirvana goal for a pool is zero maintenance. I know it is impossible, but I made all my decisions regarding our pool with that objective in mind.

First, I researched types of construction. For me, fiberglass was the clear winner....no changes over time as the pool surface ages, very slippery (difficult for algae to attach), we had no need for a very deep or very large pool. I found the TFP forum and studied posts in all the subforums. The information was very helpful when talking to potential pool builders; they knew that I knew what I was talking about. :)

After selecting our pool builder, I told him that my goal is a zero maintenance pool. He looked at me kind of funny...I said I knew it was impossible but challenged him to get as close as possible.

Looking back (this will be our 7th season with our pool), the pool builder did a good job meeting my challenge. And, sharing equal credit is the TFP forum.:goodjob: Each Spring upon opening the pool, it is always a challenge to get the water clear and chemicals balanced. People who see the pool right after we remove the covers always ask if we are going to drain the pool. I tell them "no" and come back in 10 days. By that time, the water is clear and the chemistry is just right. All thanks to TFP.

I've had a few challenges over the years with some surprise problems. The members here have always been extremely helpful in offering advice. I have to say that almost every bit of advice I have received on this forum has been helpful in solving my problems.

The only time I was ever in a pool store was when we were looking for pool builders, and I thought the pool stores might have some recommendations.
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cfherrman said:
Might look into polyquat 60(or whatever the number is) for closing
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I use PolyQuat, but do not close with high chlorine levels, as the algaecide affects the levels. My levels drift down to under 5 ppm and then I allow the algaecide to circulate for 24 hours before closing. Non foaming, non metallic. Kemtek is what most of us use on the forum!
 
Looking back (this will be our 7th season with our pool), the pool builder did a good job meeting my challenge. And, sharing equal credit is the TFP forum. Each Spring upon opening the pool, it is always a challenge to get the water clear and chemicals balanced. People who see the pool right after we remove the covers always ask if we are going to drain the pool. I tell them "no" and come back in 10 days. By that time, the water is clear and the chemistry is just right. All thanks to TFP.
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Vince:

Curious to know when you close your pool, what chemicals are added at closing and what your levels are? In addition, when in the Spring do you open your pool? Do you have a safety mesh cover? If so, what may work is a large tarp to cover the safety mesh cover temporarily in the fall/winter and spring before opening. Something does not add up, unless you are working with a mesh cover and closing too early and opening up late.
 
Biscuits & Gravy said:
I am new here and a good portion of the information provided by "experts" is dangerous. I have been in the pool industry for 25+ years and I'm not a one pole'r working out of a Toyota pick up. What qualifications are needed to earn the label expert? The pool industry does not typically attract the best & the brightest. The people that worked for a year at a pool company, had very little training and potentially training by those that didn't know themselves and felt compelled to open a pool company are just as qualified as a homeowner with no experience. The information that you provide is only as good as the information that was supplied to you.
Click to expand...

The threshold to entry outside of the Northeast is rather low & I agree with your comments if they pertain to the industry or a particular social media venue.

with your 25 yrs in the biz, there is a good chance we know each other or have many mutual friends, especially if you are industry engaged.

Drop me a line anytime & I will shoot you my email.
Ray
 
I got the impression Biscuit was asking what qualifies someone to be called TFP Expert. Could be wrong.
 
Well, I am very happy with TFP!!! As you see in my signature I have a modest pool that I left to its own devices pretty much for four years while working in Sweden (it self-emptied and the liner had an argument with a wolverine). I just fixed it all and installed a new liner - the pool itself was in great shape considering the recent neglect and it being 22 years old - minimal rust! I have learned a lot and obtained a lot of help in refurbishing by searching the forums here.

Unfortunately, I bought the chemicals online before fixing the pool and finding this site. I bought on the basis of what I had used for the 8 years prior I had the pool open for, what was left in deck storage (empty bottles etc.) and what I read elsewhere online (read: online pool store advice, you need all these chemicals ugh), and it was about $370. So now I have test strips, chlorine pucks, pH up, algecide and clarifier and so on I will never open (~$200), but may well be found on craigslist soon lol. I used to use test strips and go to the pool store (which actually was quite a good store) about once every two months, I found the test strips nebulous which is probably why I had a lot of different chemicals, and it would be $20 for water testing if I was not buying. Since I found TFP, learned, and invested in a 2006C kit (for the box) I am quite convinced that for a season lasting April to the end of October, I will be spending about $100 a year.

Anyways, I filled the pool, cut in the skimmer, return, filled completely then tested: (less than half of test dates are listed, so continuity will not make sense, just a general picture for TA especially)

05-03-18: Well water, nothing added.

FC: 0, CC: 0, TC: 0
pH: 7.7
TA: 200
CH: 210
CYA: 0

05-04-18: first chemicals added

FC: 5.8, CC: < 0.2, TC: 6.0 (5.9)
pH: 7.1 (cycling pH down with aeration to reduce TA)
TA: 190
CH: 210
CYA: 35

05-05-18: shock, pH down, aeration

FC: 5.8, CC: < 0.2, TC: 6.0 (5.9)
pH: 7.6 (cycling pH down with aeration to reduce TA)
TA: 140
CH: 210
CYA: 35

05-10-18: shock, pH down, aeration

FC: 4.4, CC: 0, TC: 4.4
pH: 7.6 (cycling pH down with aeration to reduce TA)
TA: 110
CH: 200
CYA: 40

05-13-18: pH down, aeration

FC: 2.2, CC: 0, TC: 2.2
pH: 7.8 (cycling pH down with aeration to reduce TA)
TA: 95 (splitting the difference if I think half a drop would have made the change)
CH: 220
CYA: 38

05-16-18: shock, pH down, aeration

FC: 2.6, CC: < 0.2, TC: 2.8
pH: 7.6 (cycling pH down with aeration to reduce TA)
TA: 80
CH: 220
CYA: 38

05-19-18: shock, pH down, aeration, added a little CYA to be slightly above 40.

FC: 5.0, CC: < 0.2, TC: 5.2
pH: 7.4 (cycling pH down with aeration to reduce TA)
TA: 70
CH: 220
CYA: 42

I have not been in a rush to fix TA but may do one more round of pH cycling to get to 60. Then I will maintain FC around 5-7 with CYA around 40. On average from 05-03-18 to 05-19-18. I have fully tested every two days, the full testing takes 10-20 mins. I have done overnight FC loss tests and they are good, not so good after a thunderstorm dumps debris in the pool meaning FC is doing the work. Will push out testing to every 3 days to anticipate FC at 7 falling to 4, unless there is a storm, in which case I will test FC, CC and pH only and correct FC and possibly pH by aeration, but no doubt it will rise itself though.

I am very happy to monitor the water so that it is safe and no problems arise, and to not rely on strips and periodic trips to the pool store. TFP has made it too easy to keep my pool looking good and testing very well. My next tasks are to hard PVC plumb the system and check the condition of bonding.
 
You can use most of what you bought over time. Do check the algacide to make sure it does not have copper in it. Post what kind you bought so we can check it out for you.

The pucks will be good for weekend get aways and such.

You are doing a great job with your water and getting that TA down. You will find that once you find the sweet spot for TA your pH will be very stable. It will take some tweaking to find what YOUR pool likes.

Kim:kim:
 

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