I starting to understanding the Orenda system.

Jump to latest Follow Reply
R

ringi

Active member
Dec 29, 2023
34
England
I think I now understand why Orenda recommended processes are used by many of the better pool service companies, while we all know that bleach can do so same job in a cheaper/simple way.

Pool services companies have a large travel time cost per visit, TFP members normally have zero travel time to visit their pools.
  • Saving a few visits on a pool opening is enough to justify use of Oranda product to do what a few days of testing and adding bleach 4 times a day does just as well.
  • Pool service companies can't depend on customer asking children to use the wc before the pool or asking gusts at a pool party to shower. Hence adding CV-600 so such biological loads have less effect on FC levels.
  • Pool service companies can't depend on customers checking FC after a pool party, hence keeping phosphates low so the damaged is limited.
  • Some pool service companies believe that they have a legal risk if FC is kept over 5.
  • Pool service companies can't depend on customers adding a little addational bleach before a pool party.
  • Many customers will tend to have pool parties on the same day.
  • Pool service companies can't control the size/type of filters their customers have.
  • Pool service companies can't depend on customers adding bleach if the power is cut to a pool.
 
This has always been the case for pool services- and pool stores no matter which brand they use/sell. While There are good products and not so good products from every manufacturer The TFP methods are generally impractical for those business models as they are geared towards pool owners . Also, many customers of these businesses are hoping/expecting a magic trick that makes the pool look better quickly no matter how this gets accomplished without realizing that the water looking decent doesn’t necessarily mean it’s sanitary & are unaware of many of the long term side effects and costs of some of the products. Along with the merry go round of - This product begats the need for this other product etc.
While visible algae is unsightly, it doesn’t harm you, the unsanitary conditions that led to the algae in the first place can so just treating the algae temporarily via algaecides or phosphate management is like only dealing with the symptoms and not curing the disease.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ringi, Newdude and oledan
ringi said:
but these days it easy for a pool service company to setup a salt water choline generator that mostly keeps choline high enough once they have reduced choline demand to normal levels.
Click to expand...
Nowhere in that statement is all the products that need selling on the Orenda plan.

Maybe the new Orenda advice to service professionals will be 'get them on SWG instead of all these chemicals we both get a cut of'.
 
ringi said:
Totally agree, but these days it easy for a pool service company to setup a salt water choline generator that mostly keeps choline high enough once they have reduced choline demand to normal levels.
Click to expand...
If they are smart & the homeowner goes for it!
There have been many discussions here about a TFP type service model that only works with clients that have a swcg & a robot 😄 it would be somewhat doable but then your clientele really wouldn’t need you much- not super scalable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ringi
Mdragger88 said:
If they are smart & the homeowner goes for it!
There have been many discussions here about a TFP type service model that only works with clients that have a swcg & a robot 😄 it would be somewhat doable but then your clientele really wouldn’t need you much- not super scalable.
Click to expand...

Not convinced a robot is needed, as a once a week brush/vac plus FC check should give reasonable results with a swcg if a SLAM was completed at opening.
 
ringi said:
How can a pool service company economically complete SLAM using only the TFP methods?
Click to expand...
They can't. I was discussing regular maintenance as was most of the original post.

Pool services have to do what they have to do to clear the swamp in minimal visits, but they leave off the critical OCLT which proves either process complete. If the swamp returns in a couple weeks, it looks like a new problem and not a recurring one.

'Do what you did last time, that worked GREAT for a month'
 
Let's think about this a little more.

The cost of the Orenda Phosphate Remover and CV-600 for a "Orenda Opening" is likely less then it will cost most pool service companies to do a 20 minutes visits given travel and management time. (Unlike many other products they don't create long term problems in the water as they break down.)

Often after the 1st day's round of measure/bleach the pool FC will drop to a level that is not useful before the next day's visit. So "three steps forward and two steps back" if only doing the SLAM process once a day.

But the very high dose of Orenda Phosphate Remover will quickly bind the phosphate that is released from each cycle of the SLAM, so slowing down the growth between visits. The CV-600 will reduce (a little) of the biological load that is using up the FC, so the FC will remain at the SLAM levels for a little longer after each visit. The CV-600 will also destroy some of the oils on the outside of biofilms, so exposed more to the next cycle of high choline.

Many pool service companies will have portable pumps and cartridge filters with a cartridge filter cleaning machine, so for them, needing to do more filtering/vacuuming on each visit is likely cheaper then needing more visits.

(I can think of ways to automate the OCLT if it is done at 10 FC level, but very costly to automate higher FC level testing.)
 
I think you are giving way too much credit to these side products. I think phosphate remover will make an impact but a much more minor one than you are giving it credit for. During a SLAM it probably does next to nothing. During regular maintenance it might give you a little bit of headroom when your FC drops a little low, but for a very short time.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Katodude said:
During a SLAM it probably does next to nothing.
Click to expand...
Lifted from the phosphates Wiki :

Pool Must be Algae Free Before Dealing With Phosphates[edit]​

Phosphate removers say that algae MUST be dealt with before dealing with phosphates. The instructions from the Orenda 10,000 say Algae in a Pool will result in a false reading.[5]

With a full-blown algae outbreak, a phosphate test can be close to nil as all the available phosphate is incorporated within the algae. With all the phosphate being held by the algae, there is nothing available to remove. When the algae are treated and die, all the available phosphate stored in their cell walls and all the other nutrients are released back into the water, where a test will now show the true total value.

If you use a phosphate remover with algae and reduce your phosphate levels to zero, you’ll be disappointed when you clear the pool and test it again in a week. The phosphate levels will be high again.

Any pool store that suggests that a customer with a green/cloudy pool use a phosphate remover before clearing the algae problem is giving incorrect advice and just looking to sell expensive chemicals.

If you have algae in your pool water, forget removing phosphates and focus on using chlorine to kill the algae.

Phosphate Removers - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply