How to prime pump for pool at our newly-purchased house

[hb1547]

I just bought a house that has an in-ground pool and am trying to learn the basic process for cleaning the pump basket and priming the pump, but I'm having trouble avoiding/removing air in the system.

Here's a photo of my pump/filter system:

Process I followed:

1. Shut off power to the pump (booster pump is already off, and is off for this whole process). Looks like this is a two speed pump, so I think the automatic timer controls the high speed part of it (~6 hrs/day), and the breaker switch turns off the pump altogether. I shut off both.
2. Remove the pump lid. When I remove the pump lid, I immediately hear a pumping sound of water in the piping. My guess is this is water partially flowing back down to the skimmer, and also out of the filter into the pool's return. This continues until I replace the lid, but fades in intensity over time.
3. Clean and replace basket.
4. Fill basket with water. I filled until I reached the pipe that pulls from the skimmer.
5. Put the pump lid back on.
6. Turn the pump on, back to high speed. When I start the pump, it takes 20-30s for water from the skimmer to begin entering the basket.
7. Bleed the air out the filter through the valve.

However, the air in the basket area never clears nor reduces in volume: the same pocket at about the height of the pipe from the skimmer remains. I can see air bubbles coming out of the return jets in the pool.

I know it's bad to leave the system running with air in it like this, but am not sure what I need to do differently.

Almost every thing I found when searching mentions closing valves, but I don't see any valves on either the suction side nor the pressure side (nor elsewhere in the area). See the photo below.

What am I missing?

 

[ajw22]

All below ground pool pumps are self priming. You can pour some water in the basket to help it but the pump should prime on its own.

Suction side air leaks prevent a pump from priming properly.

Suction Side Air Leaks

If you see air bubbles coming out of the return lines in your pool, you likely have a leak. Some signs that a suction side plumbing leak has occurred include: Read more

www.troublefreepool.com

Check the condition of the pump cover O ring and spread Pool Lube on it.

Pool Lube - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[hb1547]

I didn't see any issues with the o-ring, but I'll buy a replacement at the store today and some lube to see if that makes a difference.

I worked on it some more today. I opened the pump filter basket lid and air valve, which as I said I think just drains out the water from the large filter tank back into the pool. I let that finish itself.

Then I filled the pump filter basket with the hose. That's a bit of a race between water falling back down towards the skimmer and putting the lid on, but I managed to get the lid on with only a little air still in the basket, and the water level just above the pipe from the skimmer.

When I switched on the pump, the space taken up by the air increases, dropping the water level a few cm (still just above the skimmer pipe). I would guess this is just suction causing the air pocket to expand, but am not sure.

The air in the basket doesn't seem to change in size. That is, the water level stays about the same. As far as I can tell, it's still the same air that was in there when I put on the lid. Every 20-30s, there accumulates enough air that the air valve on the filter has some to bleed. I still see air bubbles in the pool.

I don't know if this is the air in the basket area gradually working itself out, and it just needs a little time, or if this is what we'd expect if the o-ring is the root cause.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Do you have an air relief valve on your filter? If so, after starting the pump, open this valve in till water exits the filter.

Check the water in the skimmer as the pump is running. It should not look like a tornado. There should be a gentle Vortex with no air being sucked into the suction port the bottom of the skimmer.

Make sure your water level is at least halfway between the top and bottom of the skimmer mouth. Also make sure that your skimmer door (weir) is not in the closed position. It should be floating on the water allowing flow into the skimmer.

 

[hb1547]

Yes we do. When I start the pump, I open the valve until water exits as you said. But every 20-30s after that, I can reopen the valve and there's a little more air to bleed. Again, I'm not sure if this is the air from the basket area gradually working itself out, or another issue.

 

[crusemm]

All of the symptoms you describe are perfectly normal, the one question I have is, how long are you letting the pump run to prime it. It usually takers a few minutes, primarlily depending on the height distance between your pump and pool water level.

 

[hb1547]

Ive left the filter on for about 30 mins now.
The water level in the pump basket remains the same (that is, the top inch or two is still air). Air still accumulates in the filter to be bled, and I still see air bubbles out of the return jets.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Check the water in the skimmer as the pump is running. It should not look like a tornado. There should be a gentle Vortex with no air being sucked into the suction port the bottom of the skimmer.

Make sure your water level is at least halfway between the top and bottom of the skimmer mouth. Also make sure that your skimmer door (weir) is not in the closed position. It should be floating on the water allowing flow into the skimmer.

How 'bout the skimmer?

 

[hb1547]

Skimmer looks fine. Water is about 2/3rds of the way up the skimmer door, and it's quite deep above the bottom of the skimmer. The skimmer doesn't have a weir (it's on the list of things to repair).

 

[crusemm]

Run a water hose over your pump basket. it may be that the lid and o ring are leaking

 

[hb1547]

I don't see any obvious signs of a leak when running a hose over both.

I took a video of what I see when I start the pump:

pool_starting_pump.mp4

drive.google.com

I can fill the basket to nearly full with the hose. When I start the pump, water flows in from the skimmer without trouble, but the water level in the basket drops a few inches and never changes (doesn't rise nor fall as the pump stays on).

And I still see a steady stream of bubbles out of one of the return jets:

pool_return_bubbles.mp4

drive.google.com

 

[Dirk]

Run a water hose over your pump basket. it may be that the lid and o ring are leaking

This is what crusemm is describing:

 

[hb1547]

Oh good, thanks for sharing that. I still didn't see signs of a leak. I checked the drain plug on the pump, the piping leading up to the pump, and the top of the basket lid. In all cases I left the hose on for 15-20s and the air level in the basket didn't change.

I couldn't easily test under the basket lid, though I tried. Maybe this is another sign that the problem is with the o-ring? I'm going to go to a pool store today to try to get that checked properly.

 

[Dirk]

Maybe this is another sign that the problem is with the o-ring?

Do read the article that Allen gave you. It describes everything you need to know about the lube and the o-ring.

Pool Lube - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[hb1547]

Absolutely, I'll make sure to follow it.

I had to order a replacement O-ring (none in local stores). In the meantime, while I have this air leak, should I keep my pump running and bleed off the air regularly? Or is it better to keep it off until I can properly remove the leak?

 

[willygee]

Run it as long as you can monitor it. Pumps worst enemy is run dry or water starvation.

 

[hb1547]

Time for a bit of an update and follow-up question.

I called the pool service (covered by my home warranty). They came and found the impeller needed to be cleaned. That made a pretty large difference in the suction (though the workers seemed to expect a bigger difference and commented that the pump may be a bit weak).

At full speed, the pump is almost able to clear all the air out of the basket area, but a few bubbles here and there do remain, though the filter no longer accumulates air to bleed. At the pump's lower speed, the air cavity grows gradually, and I'm starting to get concerned because there's a louder buzzing sound from the motor at low speed.

Given the comments by the workers about the weakness of the pump, is it just that my pump is weak? The pump is probably about 12-24" above the water level of the pool and about 10-15' from the skimmer. Could it be that the pump at high speed can't quite clear the air out, and at lower speed the gravity pulls the water down a bit and causes that air cavity to grow?

 

[Dirk]

My pump lid always traps a few bubbles. I think that's OK. But I'm pretty sure if the amount of air increases in the pump basket, that indicates a suction-side leak, as others have pointed out. I think that's the only way air can get into the pump once it's primed. @mas985, thoughts?

 

[mas985]

That sounds like an air leak to me. Try lubing the pump lid o-ring and the drain plug gaskets.

If it takes a very long time for the air bubble to grow, it can also be outgassing which there is nothing you can do about expect periodically run on full speed.