How much chlorine do I need to kill algae, given these parameters?

I thought someone said any given pool with a nominal CYA level will drop 2.5 FC overnight. Mine dropped 2.5 in 24 hours and my CYA is 100. So, while it initially cost me more in LC to get to my proper target range, maintaining it sounds the same as the person with the lower CYA. Or, am I missing something here?
Negative. A pool with no organics or other FC depleting issues will drop close to zero FC overnight.

It is what it is on your losses at 100 CYA. Practically speaking you are over thinking.
 
glad I make somebody laugh :D ... I meant that so much of your CL is bound up with the high CYA you have to maintain a higher CL level for it to be effective. and its easier to let it slip... in case you haven't seen this chart.. it gets called out all the time: FC/CYA Levels
I have indeed seen that chart. I think it has been tattooed to the insides of my eyelids by now. o_O What do you mean it's easier to let it slip. Isn't slipping, well, slipping, regardless of your target range? Or, is there something else I am not thinking of. I am planning on lowering CYA with a dilution this winter, no matter how small the change may be, but I think stopping the pucks and shock and the partial natural exchange will have a positive effect on my CYA over time.

Speaking of which, I heard that CYA can be oxidized with high levels of chlorine, but I don't know what "high" mean in this context. Have you heard of anything like that before? Wishful thinking, but maybe my high SLAM FC level might help a tiny bit? I would think not, otherwise people would SLAM instead of draining their pools.

BTW, I also heard plaster isn't supposed to be allowed to dry out. If that's true, how do people drain then refill? In my case, I plan on draining prior to storms, which means plaster may be exposed for a while.
 
A pool will lose 2-4 ppm during the DAY from the suns UV rays. It should lose minimal FC at night.

Higher FC levels will lose some additional chlorine from oxidation. So the loss curve is not linear.

Thus the daily maintenance dose of chlorine will be a bit more if you are maintaining a high FC level due to your high CYA.
Then I am doing pretty good, considering my CYA level of 100. I am losing 2.5 over an entire 24 hour period, which right now in my area includes a heckuva lot of sun over the pool.
 
Negative. A pool with no organics or other FC depleting issues will drop close to zero FC overnight.

It is what it is on your losses at 100 CYA. Practically speaking you are over thinking.
I have not tested my overnight loss, only the loss over a 24 hour period. I'd say the loss ain't bad. I don't mind overthinking things. I'd rather overthink than underthink, and end up not be prepared. ;)
 
..
Speaking of which, I heard that CYA can be oxidized with high levels of chlorine, but I don't know what "high" mean in this context. Have you heard of anything like that before? Wishful thinking, but maybe my high SLAM FC level might help a tiny bit? I would think not, otherwise people would SLAM instead of draining their pools.

BTW, I also heard plaster isn't supposed to be allowed to dry out. If that's true, how do people drain then refill? In my case, I plan on draining prior to storms, which means plaster may be exposed for a while.
Its kind of a path of least resistance. For some with total bio experiments going on in their water and it will take lots of chlorine to manage it.. sometimes it easier to drain and refill. You are hanging in there.. so I think you can make it to winter...

Yes CYA will breakdown over time and is dependent on temp and other factors. You don't want to drain and let it sit.. you'll end up with a line in your plaster. I setup a siphon on my pool when it starts raining. It tends to siphon about the same rate as the rain unless I get a deluge, you know those localized storm cells that come through every now and again. So I keep my pool level on the low side during winter to accommodate the rain. Then I start managing the chemistry when the rains start tailing off, in the end of March or April.. This last year was weird with all the late rains.
 
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Then I am doing pretty good, considering my CYA level of 100. I am losing 2.5 over an entire 24 hour period, which right now in my area includes a heckuva lot of sun over the pool.

You can pat yourself on the back but you have too many variables in play to really determine if you are doing good. That is why we have the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test that removes most of the variables for a better assessment of the water.
 
You can pat yourself on the back but you have too many variables in play to really determine if you are doing good. That is why we have the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test that removes most of the variables for a better assessment of the water.
I am not trying to congratulate myself, especially since I have done nothing. I understand how easy it is to test for loss. What I'm merely point out is that if a pool with a nominal CYA loses 2-4ppm over a day of sun, and I am losing 2.5ppm over a LONGER 24 hour period, which includes that same amount of sun, I am not losing all that much with a cazy 100ppm CYA level. So, it's not like that high of a level really eats that much more chlorine. It sounds like it will take more to get to my target, but doesn't require much more, if any more, to maintain a target level than a lower CYA level pool requires. Obviously, more LC is also required to hit SLAM levels, but again, maintenance differences are moot.

Believe me, if I could easily and cost-effectively drain and refill 50% of my pool, I would, but I can't, so I won't. And, unless someone pointed out something else other than FC level requirements that I missed, having a 100 CYA doesn't seem to be as big of a deal as some are making it out to be. I can easily live with higher requirements of LC to get me to target and SLAM levels, especially if maintenance requirements are virtually the same. From what I understand, I may only need to SLAM once, and I only need to get to my target once, as well. Once there, it sounds like I just need to add the same amount everyone else is adding to maintain their targets, even if their CYA is much lower than mine.

If there is anything else I haven't considered, I'm all ears.
 
I setup a siphon on my pool when it starts raining. It tends to siphon about the same rate as the rain unless I get a deluge, you know those localized storm cells that come through every now and again. So I keep my pool level on the low side during winter to accommodate the rain. Then I start managing the chemistry when the rains start tailing off, in the end of March or April.. This last year was weird with all the late rains.
What diameter hose on your siphon, and I assume you siphon from the bottom? BTW, where is OV, CA? Are you in Orangevale, Oak View, or...?
 
Yes, you're right, once you pass the hurdle of the higher investment in the chlorine range and SLAM level, it's all the same. Meaning, given the same amount of algae, the amount of chlorine consumed will be the same whether CYA is 50 or 100. I operated like that my 1st year with no repercussions until my CYA came down naturally (now in my 3rd).
 
BTW, I also heard plaster isn't supposed to be allowed to dry out. If that's true, how do people drain then refill? In my case, I plan on draining prior to storms, which means plaster may be exposed for a while.

Bumping this comment for someone else to chime in, but I dont think you want plaster to dry out. You could try to get some sort of rainwater harvesting system and do your water swap at 500 gallons at a time.

Something like this:
 

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What diameter hose on your siphon, and I assume you siphon from the bottom? BTW, where is OV, CA? Are you in Orangevale, Oak View, or...?
yep from the bottom. If you are like me I turn my pump off in the winter.. then there will be no mixing to speak of and you are just draining pool water. I just use a garden hose and it turns out a get enough suction with the other end stuffed in the drain clean out on the side of the house... If I need more I use a second garden hose.
Yes OrangeVale or The Colony as the old timers here call it.
 
yep from the bottom. If you are like me I turn my pump off in the winter.. then there will be no mixing to speak of and you are just draining pool water. I just use a garden hose and it turns out a get enough suction with the other end stuffed in the drain clean out on the side of the house... If I need more I use a second garden hose.
Yes OrangeVale or The Colony as the old timers here call it.
Thanks for the info on using the garden hose.

While California utilities are more than any other state, consider yourself lucky that you're in Sac County. I'm up in El Dorado County, and the utilities up here are outrageous compared to Sac County. For example, my neighbors and I are all paying $600 electric bills right now for our homes, yet people I know in Sac County complain about $100 electric bills in their homes. In fact, even though commercial rates are higher for everything, the electric bill for my commercial establishment in Sac County is only $150 a month. You already know water in California costs a premium, but can you imagine how much it will cost me to fill 13,000 gallons in my county?
 
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Bumping this comment for someone else to chime in, but I dont think you want plaster to dry out. You could try to get some sort of rainwater harvesting system and do your water swap at 500 gallons at a time.

Something like this:
I think I have a hose long enough to reach neighbors' sipogts. I wonder if any of them will notice if I take 300 gallons from each of them, every now and again. :suspect:
 
Interesting read...

I feel it's important to point out that a single 24 hour period FC loss does not mean that's all your pool will lose on other days. Additionally, there's a possibility of testing error being a factor (happens to all of us). You would have to test your water for a week or more to actually know what your average losses are daily. The general rule of thumb is 2-4ppm, or roughly ~50% of your FC is lost daily, not accounting for other factors such as swimmers or environmental changes (rain, dust, clouds, etc.).

If you do decide to SLAM, I feel like it might be difficult to convince you that you'll need to maintain that SLAM FC level by testing and adding chlorine 3-4 or more times daily. As a precursor to that discussion... your SLAM will be less effective and slower (take far more time) if you try to skimp on that part. Conversely, it will be shorter and more effective if you do test and add chlorine back to SLAM level 3-4 or more times per day.

You can safely swim at or below SLAM level for your CYA.

I realize that it doesn't rain often in your area, but you may want to consider rain collectors on your downspouts to try to collect as much free water as you can get. Maybe you can get your neighbors to collect it for you too. Invite them to swim more often maybe?
 
Thanks for the info on using the garden hose.

While California utilities are more than any other state, consider yourself lucky that you're in Sac County. I'm up in El Dorado County, and the utilities up here are outrageous compared to Sac County. For example, my neighbors and I are all paying $600 electric bills right now for our homes, yet people I know in Sac County complain about $100 electric bills in their homes. In fact, even though commercial rates are higher for everything, the electric bill for my commercial establishment in Sac County is only $150 a month. You already know water in California costs a premium, but can you imagine how much it will cost me to fill 13,000 gallons in my county?
There is a thread around her somewhere where an owner setup a rainwater collection tank and then uses that to fill their pool water throughout the summer.
 
I’ve been following this thread because I sympathize with Mr. Leadfoot’s needing to deal with his pool without draining, and a couple of things jump out at me.

Mr. Leadfoot is being given what appears to me to be conflicting information. He brought up black algae and was sent to the black algae pool school article. That article specifically states that black algae does not require the same high levels of chlorine that green or mustard algae does. It requires a level between target and slam and lots of elbow grease.

Many people are saying he needs to slam, and maybe he does, but it’s not what the expert article actually said, and I think I see some of his questions coming from his having read that article. Does the article somehow assume a completed slam first and then a prolonged higher chlorine level? How would one pass a normal slam first, though, if there’s still visible algae as described in the article? I figure I’ve been around here a bunch and have completed a SLAM before, and even I wasn’t quite sure what to make of the black algae directions. It is awfully confusing, especially if he’s being counseled two different ways. Can someone clarify where a slam fits into the black algae article?

I have used rainwater tanks to exchange some water in my pool. I can’t refill all summer from them because that’s our dry time, but I made use of them a lot last fall to help get lower calcium and alkalinity water. It was an investment for the tanks themselves, but we figured we’d have other years where we wanted more soft water to replace what comes out of our hose. With your high water rates, Mr. Leadfoot, that kind of investment may pay off for you quickly if you have a property/community where you could use them.
 
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Interesting read...

I feel it's important to point out that a single 24 hour period FC loss does not mean that's all your pool will lose on other days. Additionally, there's a possibility of testing error being a factor (happens to all of us). You would have to test your water for a week or more to actually know what your average losses are daily. The general rule of thumb is 2-4ppm, or roughly ~50% of your FC is lost daily, not accounting for other factors such as swimmers or environmental changes (rain, dust, clouds, etc.).
This is EXACTLY what I discovered just now, when I tested, 24 hours after seeing a 2.5ppm loss in the first 24 hour period. What I saw today was an 8ppm loss over the 2nd 24 hour period! In fact, I was just getting back on here to post a question as to what might cause this, aside from testing error (more on that below), when I saw your post. The good news is that the remant patches on the plaster that have been brushed daily since starting this endeavor 3 days ago(?) are almost all gone. This fact, combined with the nearly triple FC loss I just recorded, along with your post and what someone else previously said, leads me to believe that such a big FC loss today could be partly contributed to the recent sustained higher FC level indeed being effective at killing off the algae in my pool, thus the consumption of much more FC than the first day. Granted, this assumption is based purely on what I can see, and this theory may not hold water (pun intended). That said, even if this theory is correct, this doesn't mean that I am inclined not to SLAM.

If you do decide to SLAM, I feel like it might be difficult to convince you that you'll need to maintain that SLAM FC level by testing and adding chlorine 3-4 or more times daily. As a precursor to that discussion... your SLAM will be less effective and slower (take far more time) if you try to skimp on that part. Conversely, it will be shorter and more effective if you do test and add chlorine back to SLAM level 3-4 or more times per day.
Au contraire, when I do SLAM, I will maintain that SLAM FC level as best I can, but will likely only be able to add LC twice a day.

You can safely swim at or below SLAM level for your CYA.
All the more reason to ensure CYA is properly tested.

Speaking of which, I was actually wondering earlier if it was possble that my CYA test results were wrong, which might explain why I am seeing such good (in my eyes) results with the algae thus far. I doubt I erred, though, because I did the regular test first, which prompted me to subsequently do the diluted test, so I had to have been wrong twice in quick succession. To clarify, the normal test resulted in the cloudy water not even getting up to the 100 mark, and it was shy by a considerable amount. However, when I did the diluted test, it hit 50 on the nose, which indicates my level is supposedly 100. If I was wrong (first time I ever hoped I was) in my test, and my CYA is really more like 30, then I would be slamming at the levels I have been trying to keep thus far. But, that's a far reach, especially since I've been running the trichlor pucks for so darned long.

I realize that it doesn't rain often in your area, but you may want to consider rain collectors on your downspouts to try to collect as much free water as you can get. Maybe you can get your neighbors to collect it for you too. Invite them to swim more often maybe?
Nice thougt here, but wouldn't downspout water be too dirty to put in a pool? I have a tile roof and when I clean my gutters I see all kind of sand from the erosion of the tile in the gutters, not to mention leaves and all that. Or, is that OK, as long as that stuff isn't swimming in the water column?

While we don't have rain often, when we get it, it's BIG! I live in the foothiils right above a big lake, and the storm clouds come across the lake and park at the hills and just preciptate water out of the lake and dump them on my house. I can drive 5 miles down the hill or even just across the lake, and it will be sunny, but when I look toward my house it's black and you can't even see the hillside. So, I'm trying to live with the high CYA for the next few months. Of course, I may lose patience along the way. ;-)
 
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I’ve been following this thread because I sympathize with Mr. Leadfoot’s needing to deal with his pool without draining, and a couple of things jump out at me.

Mr. Leadfoot is being given what appears to me to be conflicting information. He brought up black algae and was sent to the black algae pool school article. That article specifically states that black algae does not require the same high levels of chlorine that green or mustard algae does. It requires a level between target and slam and lots of elbow grease.

Many people are saying he needs to slam, and maybe he does, but it’s not what the expert article actually said, and I think I see some of his questions coming from his having read that article. Does the article somehow assume a completed slam first and then a prolonged higher chlorine level? How would one pass a normal slam first, though, if there’s still visible algae as described in the article? I figure I’ve been around here a bunch and have completed a SLAM before, and even I wasn’t quite sure what to make of the black algae directions. It is awfully confusing, especially if he’s being counseled two different ways. Can someone clarify where a slam fits into the black algae article?

I have used rainwater tanks to exchange some water in my pool. I can’t refill all summer from them because that’s our dry time, but I made use of them a lot last fall to help get lower calcium and alkalinity water. It was an investment for the tanks themselves, but we figured we’d have other years where we wanted more soft water to replace what comes out of our hose. With your high water rates, Mr. Leadfoot, that kind of investment may pay off for you quickly if you have a property/community where you could use them.
Thank you so much for jumping in here. You have indeed summed up what I've been going through, and very nicely at that. I am indeed seeing some pretty darned great results, at least compared to all my other efforts over 20 years. I'm actually pretty friggin' happy with what I've been seeing, but since I keep gettting "schooled" (pun, again) whenever I ask a question about what I'm seeing, I've been leaning toward a SLAM.

But, wouldn't you know it? Right when I'm seeing such good results, and was contemplating a SLAM, all my efforts may go down the drain (pun, again) real quick here. You see, I've been informed that I need to leave town for 5 days beginning Friday. What do I do now to keep my FC levels up? I'd hate to have to use pucks after all this! What does everyone on this site do when they go out of town?
 

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