Houston, TX No-Shade Pool Owners, how much FC loss

[DanF]

Katy I know you said your bleach is not weak, but can you confirm with manufacturing dates? Also where is the retailer storing it when you purchase? Where do you store it once you get it home? All of these factors, especially in the summer, can weaken bleach.

 

[rbwamsley]

Odd for some you folks' daily loss down here. I"m just South of you, and my pool is in the bald sun. Not a drop of shade anywhere. My CYA is now 40. I dose every morning and check every evening. I get no more then 2pmm loss per daytime.

This is what I don't get! Is the nature of the CYA test that different between the people doing the test? Maybe mine is much lower than the reading I'm getting. I have read over and over again on how to do the test "correctly" too.

This is eye opening enough for my to increase my CYA by 10 and then see how it goes from there.

 

[Toxophilite]

This is what I don't get! Is the nature of the CYA test that different? Maybe mine is much lower than the reading I'm getting. I have read over and over again on how to do the test "correctly" too.

This is eye opening enough for my to increase my CYA by 10 and then see how it goes from there.

I'm still learning all this stuff. I check and dose about 7:00am every morning to get my target of 4.5-5 FC. I get home about 6:00pm, and it's still 3pmm. Been that way for past month in heat wave. I was hoping with the add of SWG I could abate the loss with constant regeneration, as this puts me at odds leaving it at 3pmm overnight, though I do sometimes to check again first thing in morning for overnight loss.

 

[Katygreys]

Odd for some you folks' daily loss down here. I"m just South of you, and my pool is in the bald sun. Not a drop of shade anywhere. My CYA is now 40. I dose every morning and check every evening. I get no more then 2pmm loss per daytime,

This thread is interesting. Someone in OHIO losing 5-6 per day, Dickinson losing only 2 with cya of only 40 (!!!! Awesome!!!) and a fellow Katyite (Katonian???) in the same boat as me. Seems like it’s all over the place.

Having said that I just bought CYA. I measured CYA again before putting pantyhose in pool and I’m getting 50. So maybe I’ve been 10ppm lower than I thought. In any case, I am pantyhosing 10 more ppm now to get me to 60….

Keep the replies coming!!!!

 

[Katygreys]

Odd for some you folks' daily loss down here. I"m just South of you, and my pool is in the bald sun. Not a drop of shade anywhere. My CYA is now 40. I dose every morning and check every evening. I get no more then 2pmm loss per daytime.

I measure and dose at night. I can’t imagine dosing in the morning like you do would change anything for me, huh? Is the FC “fresher” (horrible word I know) if it’s dosed right before the UV starts hitting it, as opposed to dosing and night, sitting in pool for 10 hrs before getting attacked by UV???

 

[Toxophilite]

I measure and dose at night. I can’t imagine dosing in the morning like you do would change anything for me, huh? Is the FC “fresher” (horrible word I know) if it’s dosed right before the UV starts hitting it, as opposed to dosing and night, sitting in pool for 10 hrs before getting attacked by UV???

That's when I do my "chores" mostly. Take the dogs out, feed the goldfish, and dose the pool while the circulation is on high setting for morning. I can't see where doing a day's dose the night before would change anything other than break my routine, and I live by routines. I would say how much a day's sun is going to consume, it's going to consume, no matter.

 

[Texas Splash]

Really shouldn't matter when you add the chlorine (night or day). The key is consistency. Good you caught the slightly lower CYA. I found the same in my pool, so I am also currently increasing my CYA as well. Temps are supposed to get quite intense in the next few days.

 

[Katygreys]

Katy I know you said your bleach is not weak, but can you confirm with manufacturing dates? Also where is the retailer storing it when you purchase? Where do you store it once you get it home? All of these factors, especially in the summer, can weaken bleach.

Ok DanF, you’re not gonna like this but here it is

I buy 12.5% from pinch a penny in gold colored 2.5 gallon containers. They store the containers inside. One time I came in to swap my containers out and they did not have any containers to swap out. So they just took my containers and pumped bleach into them. They had a rather small tank in the back that was indeed inside. If I had to guess the volume I would say 40 gallons max. Is this a smaller container that they fill up from a larger container outside? I am not sure. I can check.

When I get home I store my bleach outside in a cube shaped deck box. I will attach a picture below. I know that that should be stored inside. However, I would rather store outside for several reasons. I have tested my FC after dosing with bleach that has been stored in this manner for up to 10 or 12 days, and every time I have tested, the concentration of FC Is as predicted by pool math and what I expect. While I do agree that I may not be storing it in optimal conditions, my bleach is never stored outside for more than about 12 days, and it raises my FC to where it is expected to be raised.

Having said all that, is outside storage still an issue even though it is producing the expected result? Is it possible that it will still produce the expected result but be “weaker”… not in a sense of less concentration, but in the sense of less robust or more easily broken down by UV?

Bleach is stored in the back left container, the one next to the rocking chair. I open the lids of the two containers sitting in the sun to show that there are towels stored in there, not bleach.

 

[Katygreys]

 

[DanF]

I think if you're getting your predicted results from pool math, then your bleach is probably 12.5%. We don't have Pinch a Penny here, so I'm not familiar with their freshness and storage methods. I also think that storing bleach out of the sun (like you do) is better than storing it out of the heat, if that makes sense. I've learned on TFP that UV is a much stronger consumer of FC than heat.

 

[Katygreys]

I think if you're getting your predicted results from pool math, then your bleach is probably 12.5%. We don't have Pinch a Penny here, so I'm not familiar with their freshness and storage methods. I also think that storing bleach out of the sun (like you do) is better than storing it out of the heat, if that makes sense. I've learned on TFP that UV is a much stronger consumer of FC than heat.

Yea that’s what I gather as well. Opaque containers in an opaque deck box.

 

[rbwamsley]

@Katygreys Interesting that we are both using Suncoast Chlorine from Pinch-A-Penny... I'm not one for coincidences. Also, I store my chlorine outside under the shade of a tree. Yours is more protected from the elements than mine.

Another thing to note. I use 8.5% Bleach in my Pool Match calculations for the Suncoast Chlorine (even though it says 12.5%) and it's pretty accurate for me.


Is it possible that some chlorines are consumed faster than others?

 

[Toxophilite]

@Katygreys Interesting that we are both using Suncoast Chlorine from Pinch-A-Penny... I'm not one for coincidences. Also, I store my chlorine outside under the shade of a tree. Yours is more protected from the elements than mine.

Another thing to note. I use 8.5% Bleach in my Pool Match calculations for the Suncoast Chlorine (even though it says 12.5%) and it's pretty accurate for me.


Is it possible that some chlorines are consumed faster than others?

There's a lot of variables in the chlorine, as well as many other things. Now, looking at this more realistically, an absolute measure of FC loss is not as useful as seeing where you stand relatively. I'm losing around 45% of my FC per daytime, rounded to 50% for my inconsistencies, but if I double starting FC concentration, I'm not going to completely stave off this rate that all exposed FC degrades to UV, so my FC loss in absolute terms is going to be higher as well. One users apples won't be another's oranges in this regard for comparison losses.

 

[Katodude]

Having said that I just bought CYA. I measured CYA again before putting pantyhose in pool and I’m getting 50. So maybe I’ve been 10ppm lower than I thought. In any case, I am pantyhosing 10 more ppm now to get me to 60….

I would suggest you test your CYA more often. I burn through CYA in my pool. I can lose 40ppm in a month easy. I now buy CYA 50lbs at a time when I find deals online. I have full sun exposure morning to night and my pool can get to over 90 degrees. Usually hovers around 88 this time of year.

Added 2lbs yesterday, going to add another 2lbs today. I also run my T-15 at 50% 24hrs a day. That seems to keep me steady.

 

[Katygreys]

Wow. This is mine blowing. I’ve been going all this time thinking that once CYA is in the pool it does not leave, with the exception of splash out and overflow due to rain. I will definitely test CYA more often. Maybe weekly during the peak months of summer. It’s about to be 100° or higher for four days straight here in Houston come Friday.

Does anybody disagree with this or think this is crazy? I have found a few threads about CYA degradation, but the common knowledge seems to be if you have high CYA than you need to drain your pool. Not if you have high CYA just wait for it to burn off

I wonder, and don’t crucify me, is this the key to the pool boy success? They constantly add CYA via pucks, and CYA is lost at a somewhat similar rate…

 

[Newdude]

Does anybody disagree with this or think this is crazy? I have found a few threads about CYA degradation, but the common knowledge seems to be if you have high CYA than you need to drain your pool. Not if you have high CYA just wait for it to burn off

For the overwhelming majority, it stays put and waiting it out will take a season or two. Many in hot climates may see 10%-15% loss a month in the peak months. Kato is the extremely rare exception that he goes through CYA like its FC.

 

[ajw22]

Wow. This is mine blowing. I’ve been going all this time thinking that once CYA is in the pool it does not leave, with the exception of splash out and overflow due to rain.

From CYA - Further Reading

In general, once you add CYA to pool water it will be in the water unless you drain the water that contains the CYA. Some CYA is lost as water splashes out from pools.

Water leaking from pools will take CYA with it. Unexplained dropping of CYA levels, especially if you have an auto-fill automatically adding fresh water to the pool, can indicate a water leak.

Evaporation of water from the surface of the pool will not cause a loss of CYA. The water will evaporate and the CYA will stay in the remaining water.

High pool water temperatures will cause the chlorine to oxidize Cyanuric Acid. This tends to show in water temperatures of 90+ degrees. Every 10F increase in temperature results in roughly doubling the rate of degradation.[8]

Chlorine breakdown in sunlight causes CYA degradation by hydroxyl radicals. This can cause a loss from 2 ppm per month to 10 ppm per month depending on the amount of sunlight the pool is exposed to.

In an area with 90+ pool water temperatures and extreme sunlight exposure 10+ ppm of CYA a month can be lost through degradation.

There is bacteria that feeds on Cyanuric Acid and will create ammonia in pool water. This can only occur if the Free Chlorine falls to 0 allowing the bacteria to live. This generally happens in pools closed for the winter and discovered at pool opening.

 

[Toxophilite]

I lost about 10ppm CYA last month, but will never rely on that rate enough to ever let it get higher than norm. I'll take a break from jug hauling for a few weeks and put some tabs to work pretty soon, though.

 

[DanF]

Kato is the extremely rare exception that he goes through CYA like its FC

Correct (in my opinion also). And coupled with @ajw22's post, it seems like Kato is either losing water, or...maybe excessive rain? Is rain the same as splashout?

 

[Newdude]

.maybe excessive rain? Is rain the same as splashout?

The fill water after splashout is the same as rain, both have 0 CYA. And he gets 50+ inches a year in FL to explain some of the loss.