Home Automation

[JJ_Tex]

This weekend, I helped a buddy program his easy touch so now I have been dubbed the electronics guru. Tonight he called me wanting my advice on home automation. I really just know the basics, but I also don't want to give up my electronics guru this soon, so I figured I could ask here.

Below are more details on what he wants to do:
- He previously used alarms.com and liked their functionality but felt they were way overpriced and he can accomplish it DIY in this house
- We wants a system that has macros that can be programmed. For example, in his old house he could run the "Goodnight" program and it would make sure the garage doors were closed, lock the doors, turn out the lights, change the thermostat and arm the security system
- He currently has a honeywell thermostat and a garage door that is smart enabled (I didnt catch the brand, but said it has MyQ on it)
- He is prepared to buy equipment for the alarm, cameras, etc. as long as it all talks together
- While he has a google home device, he isnt married to it

I'm thinking he would be best with something like Samsung SmartThings, but may be able to get by with his existing google home mini. What do you think TFPers?

 

[Arizonarob]

I think you just opened the flood gates!

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

If your buddy wants to maintain professional monitoring and one priority is cost/value, Ring Alarm would probably be on the top of the list. Full systems are less than $200 and can be self-installed by anyone with basic DIY and technical skills. Professional monitoring is just over $8/per month which includes video saving/sharing and 60-day video event storage for Ring doorbells and cameras. The Ring system has a battery back-up and a back-up cellular connection when wifi goes down. Since it's owned by Amazon, it plays well with Alexa (not so much with Google Home) which works with a variety of different manufacturer's devices. With Alexa, setting up the types of scenes and routines you described is easy.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[jseyfert3]

First off, this doesn't answer your question, but I'm torn on smart devices for security myself. We're buying a house and it has some sort of smart deadbolt locker installed already (not sure the brand). While I like the ability to auto-lock and/or check the lock status from your phone, I don't like that it can be unlocked remotely. Sure, that's handy when you get home from work, but it's also an additional security hole. Sure, the average deadbolt can be picked in just seconds by someone with practice, but at least you can upgrade your deadbolt to a much more pick-resistant model. An internet connected lock? You can't control the security.

I've debated removing the internet locks and just getting a dumb auto-locker if that's what we want, like an electronic keypad with auto-lock. That way, it can still be picked, but it can't be opened by a stranger on the internet and I still don't need to carry a key to get in. Plus I'm pretty sure typing a code is faster than pulling out my phone. Unless they use Geofencing which is even worse from a security perspective!

Same thing with internet viewable cameras, but at least there they can't unlock your doors when they hack you. I have a cheap Chinese security camera system, but I've never connected it to the internet, so it can't be hacked. The new house has a Ring, so I have to decide that being hacked is fine still. I'm pretty sure I don't want an internet connected camera viewing the inside of my house/spa/pool area...

The house also comes with Nest Smoke alarms. So far as I know, they can't be hacked in a detrimental way. I suppose someone could activate the remote test function, but so long as the hardware is designed right they couldn't disable the alarm functionality...I think...

Gah. Smart home stuff scares me a bit. Maybe I'll design a smart, but non-internet-connected smart home system for myself with an Arduino so it can't be (easily) hacked.

 

[woodyp]

SmartThings yes...might want to look into IFTTT as well.

 

[jseyfert3]

Case in point: A group of researches figured out how to use a LASER to hack a MICROPHONE on smart home devices, which means someone can shoot a laser through your house window and tell your voice activated smart device to unlock your door....this is exactly why I'm so hesitant to put any sort of door lock that has anything "smarter" than an electronic keypad on my house. Too many security holes, most of which are unknown. I mean, who would ever even think that a laser could send "voice" to a microphone, and yet it's entirely possible.

Just use caution, especially with smart locks. Once a security hole is known, it's easy to fix or prevent access, but it's the unknown security holes that are the concern.

 

[woodyp]

Ditto on the automating of your door locks. Garage as well.

 

[Dirk]

I recently wrote about my HA system here (about halfway down post #2). I use a Mac Mini, Indigo software and Insteon devices. I can design macros for my system that can do virtually any combination of things. For example, by double-clicking a light switch near my bed, all the bedroom lights dim very slowly to off, the iTunes music volume fades to match the lights, then at zero volume iTunes is paused and the receiver turns off, the blackout shades close, the heater gets set to 60, and the garden and exterior lights just outside my window turn off. Nite-nite. ? I have other macros that do even more complicated stuff. I suppose that all sounds silly (and it is) but once you start enjoying this level of convenience, you get hooked! I only know Insteon, which has been around a while, I don't know what the capabilities of the more recent crop of HA brands can do...

 

[Dirk]

Regarding security, I get it. And I think about it. But I'm not going to let it dictate my existence. Be careful, sure, but in reality, someone could get into my home with a sawzall in less time than they could boot up their hacking computer, and be long gone before the alarm company's dispatcher could get the cops to show up. If someone wants in, they're comin' in. What makes me feel safe enough is not fortifying my house against all possibilities, but rather upping the level of security just above my neighbor's! How's that go? You don't have to out-swim the shark, you just have to out-swim your dive buddy! Crooks are lazy (or they'd work for a living). If my house is slightly less inviting than the next, they'll go there. (And if you think otherwise, keep it to yourself, as this system of denial is currently working for me!!)

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Good point Dirk. Most of the burglaries I saw in 31 years of law enforcement were door kicks and broken or pried windows. The best defense is a loud alarm with as little delay as you can live with. Burglars hate two things; big mean dogs and audible alarms.

 

[Dirk]

I was told by a window company not to worry about the big pane of glass I was thinking about reinforcing somehow. They said something similar, that thieves don't like to make the kind of noise a big shattering would produce. And a locksmith once told me that nobody picks a lock like you see in the movies (a few seconds, to keep the plot moving). It can take a seasoned locksmith up to 20 minutes to pick a lock. Nope, they're going to smash or break something to get in quick. The audible alarm makes good sense to me. For now, I have two very obvious cams mounted on the front of my house, hopefully announcing that my house is under constant video surveillance. A "real" thief would probably know that cops won't likely pursue thiefs that are captured on video, or to wear a mask, but I'm hoping those cams might convince the snatch-n-grab types to try somewhere else.

Ha, one cam was about three bills, so now I'm more worried that the cam will get stolen than about someone coming in!! What r ya gonna do...

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

The cams act as a deterrent since burglars know most are now an integral part of an alarm system. For windows, many companies (3M for one) offer an armor-like clear film that does a good job of preventing entry through glass, but you'd need to do all the windows. Of course, that won't prevent entry by prying.

 

[DAB942]

So many options -- I think the place to start is how technical your friend is or willing to learn be -- or how willing you are to support him.

Budget is typically in the equation -- I always ask those who ask me for advice for the budget and I'll fill it full of tech. The "as little as possible" is hard to work with. I have one of my kids robots with a motion detector that screams alerts for $30.00

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

I have a mix of stuff including a Kasa switch on my pool light. I will not control appliances, thermostats or access controls like door locks with any automation. I also only will put cameras up facing outside. There isn't a lock out there that can't be broken eventually and I don't need some "hacker" seeing me in my underwear in the house (a bigger issue for them than me, actually) or worse yet setting the house on fire because of a smart toaster!

Having said that, I am an Alexa based house and I literally use Sengled, TP-Link Kasa, Amazon plugs and older X-10 modules that are controlled by "HA-Bridge" running on an old Raspberry Pi 1 that looks like a Phillips Hue Hub to Alexa (no longer possible to do with Google, BTW). Despite running literally 4 systems all work fine. The only external cloud ones are Sengled and Kasa and honestly I wish I wouldn't have use either one because of the being forced to have other cloud accounts. Someday those things will stop working, though the Sengled bulbs can be made to work on certain generic Zigbee hubs without the cloud account.

The best way at this point to do the "smart home" stuff is to decide on which system you will use (all are evil, honestly) and then you use your Alexa, Google or Siri to translate and run everything else. At that point, you can simply add stuff as you go along, and after a couple of years you will already have too much money spent and too much stuff "automated".

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

... and yes.. I am well aware that I am probably being listened to by Alexa, despite the claims otherwise... I think I could almost prove it in a couple of cases... You need to think of security as the #1 issue when doing this...

 

[cwstnsko]

I have been playing with home automation stuff, but so far I've mostly worked with light switches and outlets. I buy units that are compatible with Google, Alexa and Apple homekit as it seems likely that at least one of those eco-systems will survive for a while. I haven't played with Smarthings. I have one Samsung TV that supports it, but the user interface is so poor that I give up shortly after trying to do anything with it. I do have myQ garage door openers and use them with their app, but they do not integrate with any of the smarthome stuff unless I pay a fee for access and learn how to program IFTTT, or I buy some sort of bridge box to allow them to be accessed. I have a Ring doorbell camera, but it really only works with it's own app at the moment other than announcing motion and doorbell presses over my Echos. I have a new ADT monitored security system that I thought could be more tightly integrated to things, but ADT seems to be trying to create a closed eco-system based on earlier home automation protocols rather than on wi-fi, so it just has minimal interaction through Alexa. Supposedly I can control my Hayward stuff through Alexa, but I've never sorted out the right combination of skills and verbal instructions to have it do anything useful.
Everything that you describe is certainly possible, but it seems like the home automation market is in a bit of a transitional state, trying to become more mainstream accessible, but not quite all the way there yet. Guys I talk to in the industry say it's never been as easy as it is now, but I think there's another round of evolution needed to make it ready for non-geeks to set it up on their own. I do have some concern about my garage door openers being hacked, that's why I haven't actively pursued linking myQ to Alexa. My Ring doorbell camera just points out to the front entryway, so I'm not too worried about it getting hacked. I'd like to have a few more cameras, but I haven't found a brand that checks all the boxes on what I'm looking for.
Oddly, some of the most effective burglary deterrents I've come across are not alarms, but devices that make the home look occupied when it may not be. I have a couple fake TVs that I use if I'm out of town, and I have some smart light bulbs that had a great random scheduler and the ability to listen for the doorbell and set a pattern in motion to mimic someone reacting to the doorbell, but the company folded and shut down the app, so they are paperweights now.
A friend of mine had a really effective fake camera on the outside of his house. It didn't really have a camera, but it ran on a couple batteries and had a very obvious (noisy) tracking mechanism that made it very apparent that it was tracking on anyone that came close to the house. It was amazingly intimidating, even when I knew there was not camera behind it. It was almost creepy how well it tracked your movement and the noise made sure that you knew it was tracking

 

[Dirk]

At some point you have to figure: which is more expensive, all this security tech, or the insurance deductible? You want my TV bad enough to break in? Fine by me, my insurance company will buy me a bigger, better one... You want my computer? OK, I could use a new one. All my data is backed up offsite, ready to restore. Yes, there is the "violation factor," so maybe that's what we're really guarding against...

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

Oddly enough, cameras are a bigger deterrent than alarm systems. They are cheap enough that having a couple isn't a bad idea. I use mine mainly to tell my wife or kids that a package has been delivered so they can get it rather than sitting all day long, which I am sure helps against "porch piracy" a bit. I didn't have to worry about that in Iowa, but I sure do in Arizona. I also occasionally check the weather with them too...

 

[Katodude]

I have a full mix of stuff. Like Dirk most of my switches are Insteon, and I am actually pretty happy with them. However, the unification of all the systems are done through the Alexa. I can create groups with Alexa from all sorts of different systems and it manages it all. The weakness of this is the Alexa app is not amazing for turning things on and off, but it is great for the voice commands. With a combination of echo devices pretty much the whole house is covered for voice commands. I even have an Echo Tap (now discontinued) that I take with me outside to the BBQ area, the Spa and the pool so I can yell any commands that I need. With the grouping function when I tell the Tap to play music it plays it on the Sonos outside.

Dont get me started on security. We had my wife’s car stolen from out driveway a few years ago and now I am camera crazy. I have some super high res cameras that I record to a NVR in the house and I am supplementing them with some more Ring cameras that give me person detection.

That and the super grouchy dog that terrifies everyone that does not know he just wants to be petted.

 

[jseyfert3]

Regarding security, I get it. And I think about it. But I'm not going to let it dictate my existence. Be careful, sure, but in reality, someone could get into my home with a sawzall in less time than they could boot up their hacking computer, and be long gone before the alarm company's dispatcher could get the cops to show up. If someone wants in, they're comin' in. What makes me feel safe enough is not fortifying my house against all possibilities, but rather upping the level of security just above my neighbor's! How's that go? You don't have to out-swim the shark, you just have to out-swim your dive buddy! Crooks are lazy (or they'd work for a living). If my house is slightly less inviting than the next, they'll go there. (And if you think otherwise, keep it to yourself, as this system of denial is currently working for me!!)

Hah! Sawzall takes way too long. Worst tool for the job. I was a volunteer firefighter for two years and we practiced getting into houses. Obviously when you aren't worried about getting caught it takes about 15-30 seconds to force a door. Stick a pry bar into the door by the lock, slam a hammer (or axe) to wedge it in good, give it a quick rotate and you're in, unless it's a super reinforced door and frame, like a commercial building metal door. In that case we would have used the K12. I'm pretty sure there was a sawzall on the truck but I doubt that was ever used to gain access to a house, takes too long when time is of the essence to fight a fire or rescue someone.

And a locksmith once told me that nobody picks a lock like you see in the movies (a few seconds, to keep the plot moving). It can take a seasoned locksmith up to 20 minutes to pick a lock. Nope, they're going to smash or break something to get in quick. The audible alarm makes good sense to me. For now, I have two very obvious cams mounted on the front of my house, hopefully announcing that my house is under constant video surveillance. A "real" thief would probably know that cops won't likely pursue thiefs that are captured on video, or to wear a mask, but I'm hoping those cams might convince the snatch-n-grab types to try somewhere else.

Ha, one cam was about three bills, so now I'm more worried that the cam will get stolen than about someone coming in!! What r ya gonna do...

That locksmith was either lying or never practiced picking. Have you ever watched The Lock Picking Lawyer on YouTube? He can pick just about any "standard" household door lock in 15-30 seconds. Now, he is an expert at picking locks, cause it's his hobby, but my brother backs up the not-20 minutes claim. He isn't a locksmith. He read about how to pick a lock, bought a pick set, and picked his own apartment deadbolt, the first lock he ever picked, in a matter of a couple minutes. Certainly not 20 minutes!

Now, will most thieves pick locks? NO! Most will check for unlocked doors or break something small to gain access. So, why have a pick-resistant lock? Well, because you WANT them to break into your house forcibly. Slim as the chances of it happening are, someone who can pick your lock can get in and out of your house without a trace if you don't have cameras or a security system. You might not realize something was stolen for weeks or months. A forced entry is extremely obvious.

I agree with the cameras. At our current rental, I put a camera on the main door sticking up from a fence. It has a motion activated light, specifically to say "hey, I'm a camera, and I'm watching you". Very obvious, no way you will miss it, at least at night. Like you said, it's a "go somewhere else" sign, as it likely won't really help catch any thieves (may make it slightly easier to file an insurance claim though).

My concern with locks is not someone who hacks houses one at a time, but someone who gets a database breach and not only gains access to the locks, but also the addresses the locks are installed at! Obviously the chances of that is slim, and mostly negated through the use of two-factor authentication.