Last summer I added a lot of copper to my pool water under the belief that it would act as algicide and reduce my need to use a lot of chlorine (46,000 gallon pool). It did reduce my need for chlorine but my water was not very clear, possibly due to fines from incorrect change of filter sand to Zeosand. Until the 2021 swim season ended, there were no major algae blooms, the pebbletec did not appear to have copper stains and there were no occurrences of hair turning green. I tried to get the pool up in early June 2022 after being away for a couple of months. At this late spring stage, the algae bloom present upon return was major. A 20 June Leslie's water test indicated 1.3 ppm copper, 29 ppm CYA, and 117ppm TA, and pH of 7.6. Leslie's personnel indicated that the copper was causing a chlorine lock. So thereafter, on each of four successive days I drained 1/3 of the pool water and replaced it with fresh city water (Greenville SC), with pump running 24/7. Partial draining/refilling was used to ensure that no structural damage was done to pool. Based on the dilutions, it would seem that copper should be lowered from 1.3 ppm to about 0.9 ppm (first dilution), from about 0.9 ppm to about 0.6ppm (second dilution), from about 0.6 to about 0.4 ppm (third dilution), and from about 0.4 to about 0.27ppm (fourth dilution). However, a 25 June Leslie's test indicated a copper level of 0.7 ppm, 5 ppm CYA, 47 ppm TA, and pH 7.7. After the draining and refilling, the water is much clearer but still cloudy (looking straight down, I can barely see the individual pebbles at their 60 inch depth). Why did the CYA dilute down more or less as predicted, but the Copper not dilute down as predicted? Could it be that copper is leaching out of/off of the pebbletec? Should I continue draining/refilling the pool in an effort to further lower the copper? Or should I ignore the copper for the moment and get the TA, CYA, and pH to spec and deal with the copper later, as one local pool professional suggested?
High Copper in Pool
- Thread starter Bo Hurley
- Start date
Welcome to the forum 
As you continue to read here on TFP, you will discover we have no use for commercial pool stores and even less use for their advice and horrible testing results.
Chlorine lock is a myth and doesn't exist........that's just one example
We can get your pool in pristine shape but it will require a big change in your methods.
1. Stay out of the pool store - always
2. Mostly, disregard pool store testing
3. Please read "Pool Care Basics" up in Pool School. that'll tell you more about what we do.
As you continue to read here on TFP, you will discover we have no use for commercial pool stores and even less use for their advice and horrible testing results.
Chlorine lock is a myth and doesn't exist........that's just one example
We can get your pool in pristine shape but it will require a big change in your methods.
1. Stay out of the pool store - always
2. Mostly, disregard pool store testing
3. Please read "Pool Care Basics" up in Pool School. that'll tell you more about what we do.
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,973
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Welcome to TFP! There's a lot to unpack here, so let's get started:
1 - Stay out of the pool store. Their advice and products are having negative impact on your pool. Test your own water.
2 - Obtain a TF-100 (link in my signature) or Taylor K-2006C. These test kits are easy and reliable to use.
3 - Cloudiness is due to algae not copper. To kill and remove algae you need to do the SLAM Process.
Be sure to read and bookmark our Pool Care Basics for more info. It's that easy.
There's a lot to unpack here, so let's get started:1 - Stay out of the pool store. Their advice and products are having negative impact on your pool. Test your own water.
2 - Obtain a TF-100 (link in my signature) or Taylor K-2006C. These test kits are easy and reliable to use.
3 - Cloudiness is due to algae not copper. To kill and remove algae you need to do the SLAM Process.
Be sure to read and bookmark our Pool Care Basics for more info. It's that easy.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 53,391
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You can ignore the effects of the copper in your pool water for as long as you want.
Copper in the pool water and algae and chlorine levels are unrelated problems. As others have said there is no such thing as “chlorine lock”
Decide which order you want to tackle your problems and we can assist. The pool stores have not been your friends helping you.
www.troublefreepool.com
Copper in the pool water and algae and chlorine levels are unrelated problems. As others have said there is no such thing as “chlorine lock”
Decide which order you want to tackle your problems and we can assist. The pool stores have not been your friends helping you.
Copper in Pool Water - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
BO!!! We are SO glad you found us! You are off to a great start finding TFP!
Lets get you all set up. I gather you have a sand filter-wait have you gone back to sand? Have you backwashed what is in the filter? I wonder if there is a bit of copper stuck in there that is causing our copper problems. No matter really as we move forward.
Here are you steps moving forward:
-sign up for TFP
-Order good test kit
-While waiting for the test kit to show up add enough liquid chlorine to raise your FC 5 ppm every day using PoolMath to figure out how much chlorine you will need to add. You have a big pool so it might be quite a bit. This will keep your pool from getting worse (algae)
-Fill in your signature so we call all see what you are working with at a glance Create Your Signature - Further Reading
Now if you want to work on lowering the copper while you wait on the test kit you can do some more water exchanges. That is up to you.
Lets get you all set up. I gather you have a sand filter-wait have you gone back to sand? Have you backwashed what is in the filter? I wonder if there is a bit of copper stuck in there that is causing our copper problems. No matter really as we move forward.
Here are you steps moving forward:
-sign up for TFP
-Order good test kit
-While waiting for the test kit to show up add enough liquid chlorine to raise your FC 5 ppm every day using PoolMath to figure out how much chlorine you will need to add. You have a big pool so it might be quite a bit. This will keep your pool from getting worse (algae)
-Fill in your signature so we call all see what you are working with at a glance Create Your Signature - Further Reading
Now if you want to work on lowering the copper while you wait on the test kit you can do some more water exchanges. That is up to you.
Thanks for the welcome Duraleigh! My experiences verify precisely why you have no use for commercial pool stores and their advice and their test results. Thanks also for the heads-up on the myth of chlorine lock. I have read Pool Care Basics and plan to follow that path. Looking forward to finally getting my pool in pristine shape!Welcome to the forum
As you continue to read here on TFP, you will discover we have no use for commercial pool stores and even less use for their advice and horrible testing results.
Chlorine lock is a myth and doesn't exist........that's just one example
We can get your pool in pristine shape but it will require a big change in your methods.
1. Stay out of the pool store - always
2. Mostly, disregard pool store testing
3. Please read "Pool Care Basics" up in Pool School. that'll tell you more about what we do.
Thanks duraleigh, Texas Splash, ajw22, and kimkats, for your warm welcome, your questions, your comments, and of course for your assistance!! In reply to various questions some of you raised, information is now provided in my updated signature.Welcome to TFP!
1 - Stay out of the pool store. Their advice and products are having negative impact on your pool. Test your own water.
2 - Obtain a TF-100 (link in my signature) or Taylor K-2006C. These test kits are easy and reliable to use.
3 - Cloudiness is due to algae not copper. To kill and remove algae you need to do the SLAM Process.
Be sure to read and bookmark our Pool Care Basics for more info. It's that easy.
I tested the pool water today with a LaMotte copper test kit (Code 3619...see Ebay item 163450058577). In case you are not already familiar with it, the LaMotte Cu test kit is an indicator-type test method using 5 drops of two reagents into 10 ml pool water, with ppm Cu determined by comparing the resulting blue shade (obtained 3 minutes after mixing) against a provided set of 8 color standards on white paper. The color standards correspond with 0.05, 0.1, 0.15, 0.2, 0.3, 0.5, 0.7, and 0.9 ppm free Cu. Today the pool water tested somewhere between 0.15-0.25ppm free copper, in contrast to the 0.7 ppm copper result provided by the Leslie's test conducted yesterday. [Yes, yes, all of you told me so!] I duplicated the LaMotte copper test with a sample taken from the other end of the pool, and produced an identical 0.15-0.25 ppm free copper result. Then I tested the pool water copper level again, this time using AquaCheck copper test strips. The result was a color corresponding with about 0.2 ppm Cu. With all of that evidence, there is more than ample reason to trust the 0.15-0.25 ppm and 0.2 ppm results over Leslie's 0.7 ppm result. Moreover, the 0.15-0.25 ppm result corresponds with the dilution level. Still further, I had tested my pool water before beginning the first of the four 33% drain-refill cycles. At that time, the water tested at the 0.9 ppm copper upper limit of the LaMotte test (dont recall the AquaCheck test strip result, but it was conducted it too, and I believe it corresponded with at least 1 ppm). Finally, to make sure copper was not present in the water used to refill the pool after each of the draining cycles, today I also conducted copper testing on the city water used to fill the pool, and got 0 ppm on both the LaMotte test and the AquaCheck strip test.
So all the evidence stacks up consistently that the Leslie's result of 0.7 ppm was NOT accurate. Lesson learned. It was surprisingly hard for me to finally accept that Leslie's test result was not accurate (even though you told me so), but your advice plus my own testing sealed the deal for me. No more tests at Leslie's. With their expensive automated test equipment, it is difficult for the average pool owner to accept that the Leslie's test results are less accurate than their own tests, and can be miles off the true values. It is a certainty that every swim season millions of $$$ are wasted, and millions of hours of pool use are lost, due to inaccurate test results at pool stores.
Fortunately, all of your comments seem to be in general agreement that I should SLAM the pool now and not drain to reduce the the copper further, even if copper was actually still at 0.7 ppm. However, as it now appears that copper is somewhere in the range of about 0.2 ppm, that level of copper is certainly not harmful and will serve as supplemental algaecide, and is not likely to stain anything. If I have interpreted your comments incorrectly, please let me know. Otherwise, I will balance the alkalinity and then lower the pH to 7.2 and SLAM the pool with liquid chlorine until a reading of 12 ppm free chlorine is reached. It may require 20-25 gallons of liquid chlorine, but of course there is hope that it will require less than that. We shall see. I will report back after the SLAM has been conducted.
I will conduct the slam at a pH of 7.2 and alkalinity in the 110-120 range, but my calcium hardness will be virtually nonexistent because the needed 150 pounds of calcium chloride will not arrive for another week. Please let me know if that will adversely affect the SLAM. Also, I have ordered some Pooltec algaecide after viewing the TFP video library:
Thanks so much for all of your technical assistance and for your encouragement!! It will be very exciting to see if these plans result in crystal clear pool water!
Best Regards,
Bo
That is neither a TFP video, nor a process we would ever recommend, nor a product TFP would recommend you use. Algaecide does not kill algae and is not a part of the SLAM Process.
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Whoa! Where did you find a video that recommends the use of algaecide? Certainly not here. If we've ever recommended algaecide, I missed it. If you can still return it, do so.
All you need to kill algae is chlorine, chlorine and more chlorine. To SLAM, you need to raise your FC to 40% of whatever your CYA is and keep it there as frequently as possible. Hourly is best if you can manage it. No less than 4 times per day if possible.
The problem is, the only CYA testing you've posted so far is from Leslie's. One of them said 29 and the other one said 5, so who knows what to believe? You need to order one of the recommended test kits ASAP so that we can get a reliable value for your CYA and you'll also have a test that can measure FC over 10, which you will need to successfully perform the SLAM.
Until then, continue adding 5 ppm FC each day as suggested above.
All you need to kill algae is chlorine, chlorine and more chlorine. To SLAM, you need to raise your FC to 40% of whatever your CYA is and keep it there as frequently as possible. Hourly is best if you can manage it. No less than 4 times per day if possible.
The problem is, the only CYA testing you've posted so far is from Leslie's. One of them said 29 and the other one said 5, so who knows what to believe? You need to order one of the recommended test kits ASAP so that we can get a reliable value for your CYA and you'll also have a test that can measure FC over 10, which you will need to successfully perform the SLAM.
Until then, continue adding 5 ppm FC each day as suggested above.
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,973
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Bo, This ^^^^^^ sums up one of the biggest hurdles many people face when trying to care for their pool. Well done!
Thanks for your comments, jeffchap. Unfortunately in my post I did not provide all the information on my CYA testing or TA testing or the test kits I used.
Thanks for the heads up on the test kit needed. I thought I had an adequate kit (Leslie's 18-576) for conducting the SLAM, but based on TPF's SLAM description and Test Kit Comparison, I now know that my 18-576 is not adequate for conducting SLAM at least because it cannot measure chlorine high enough to know when enough chlorine has been added to complete the SLAM, because it does not have the FAS/DPD test capability. I have ordered a Taylor K-2006C kit which should arrive in about a week. So thank you very much for your advice on the right test kit, and your advice to add 5ppm chlorine per day until conducting the SLAM!!
In reply to your comments on my CYA, my 20 June CYA test result was 29, as reported by the automated machine at Leslie's. However, on June 19 my own turbidity test beside my pool had assessed CYA to be a bit higher, i.e., in the 35 to 40 ppm range. I went back to Leslie's on 25 June for another CYA test, because from June 21-24 I conducted 4 cycles of pool draining (1/3 of total pool water each cycle) followed by fully refilling pool with city water after each draining, pump running 24/7. At that time, I though it best for Leslie's to test after the 4 cycles, to confirm (i) the drop in TA, (ii) the drop in CYA, and particularly (iii) the drop in the copper which was very high due to my addition last summer. Thanks to TFP, I now know better than to rely upon Leslie's for test results, and will rely only on my own testing in the future.
According to my calculations, after the 4 drain cycles the pool retained only about 19% of the original water. Having used up all of my CYA test reagent, I nevertheless went ahead and added about 5 pounds of CYA to my pool, having calculated it will require a total of about 15 lbs CYA to reach the 40ppm before the SLAM. I put the solid CYA granules in a sock made by knotting a long piece of PVC drain pipe mesh, secured the upper end of the sock on the coping with a weight, allowing the sock to hang over a water return jet with pump on 24/7. After an hour or so I went out and massaged the wet CYA manually until the sock was empty, which took 5-10 minutes. Although maybe 5-10% of the CYA left the sock as white particulates perhaps 0.010" in size, most of the CYA appeared to leave the sock with the very fine, milky, light-scattering appearance of particles 0.001" or less in size. This size reduction of the CYA particles greatly lowers the time for CYA to go into solution, as the rate of dissolution is well known to be proportional to surface area. In a couple of days my new 32 oz container of CYA test solution will arrive and I will measure the CYA, add more by the same method (but not more than 15 pounds total), and recheck, until 40 ppm is achieved. Hopefully I will not have to wait a week for it to be over 95% dissolved. I read the TFP recommendation to add the solid CYA particulates to the skimmer with dissolution occurring over the next week in the filter, without backwashing of course. However, with my need to SLAM asap, it would be best if my CYA dissolves asap. Today TA (measured this morning at 80 ppm) is being elevated to 115 ppm, so it should be ok for the SLAM. Hoping my calcium chloride will arrive in time to get CH from almost zero to 350 ppm before the SLAM, but figure that can be accomplished after the SLAM, if need be. pH has already been lowered to 7.2, but will be readjusted after adding sodium bicarbonate and calcium chloride. Hopefully I will be able to begin the SLAM 3 or 4 days from now.
Went back and tried to figure out why I thought TFP agreed with the algaecide video cited in my posting, but have not found the connection yet, and gave up looking for it. At this point I assume it was my mistake, but will let you know if the relationship between TFP and the video turns up in the future.
Thanks again for the heads up on the correct test kit as well as the heads up on no need for algaecide!! TFP is a great learning environment, as mistakes present in newbie postings like mine are quickly dealt with by you experts! I would much rather suffer a slightly damaged ego than suffer every time I look at nasty pool water in my back yard! So thanks again! You all are working hard to educate me and build my confidence that with your help I can succeed with my pool! Perhaps I will not have to bulldoze it in and build a tennis court in its place...so THANKS SO, SO MUCH!
With your willingness to learn, you'll be a TFP expert in no time. Looking forward to seeing pics of your soon to be sparkling clean pool!
Thanks for the attaboy, kimkats! Very encouraging!Bo, This ^^^^^^ sums up one of the biggest hurdles many people face when trying to care for their pool. Well done!