Hi New and first time posting

[Lmh305]

Hi, been reading a lot of different posts and lots of topics on this site for a couple of weeks. Read ABC’s, SLAM method and Chlorine/CYA chart. Have been battling keeping pool clear a chlorine level above 0 or 1 for past few weeks. Broke down and been having pool company do weekly chemical tests and adding chemicals. Want to be able to stop service and handle it myself and finally received Taylor k2006c kit today.

Have inline chlorinator that has 3” pucks that pool service has been filling up weekly and put chlorinator on high. This past Friday, they also put 5 pucks in slimmer basket and put 8 gallons of liquid chlorine in the pool to super chlorinate it.

I noticed the FC level was down to 1 this morning so added 1.5 gallons of liquid chlorine before rain hit. Received my new test kit mid day and tested.

readings at 1pm
FC 9.2
CC 1.4
PH 7.0 but could be lower
ALk 160
CH 525
CYA looks to be between 80 and 90.

Which item should I tackle first?

 

[kimkats]

Hi and welcome to TFP! We will help you get your pool cleared up and MUCH easier to keep clear when we get done with it!

So the first thing that jumps out to me is the CYA. It is high and with the addition of more pucks it is only going to get higher. Pucks/tablets and powder shock add CYA with each addition.

What you are going to have to do is drain and replace some of your water That is the only way to lower CYA. Go here PoolMath to see how much you need to replace to get your CYA down to 30. That is a good amount to have to do a SLAM as seen here SLAM Process to get your water clear again.

Kim

This past Friday

I noticed the FC level was down to 1 this morning

 

[Lmh305]

Thanks Kim. I turned off the chlorinator and removed any leftover pucks from slimmer basket. I knew my Cya was high over the past couple of weeks as the pool service told me the reading but also told me that it was ok. I didn’t like their answer so have been doing the drain/fill method here and there but not consistently and it probably wasn’t helping because more pucks going it. We have had a lot of rain here lately so trying to be careful as to not drain any water back into our yard and sending only to street. But sending water to street is time consuming as only have garden hose and small submersible pump to drain water. I will keep at the drain/ refill but should I also start slamming it at the same time?

 

[LoneWolfArcher]

Just one tip from me. I see you are doing the 25ml chlorine test. Feel free to do the 10ml test instead and save some of your reagents.

 

[kimkats]

See if you can take the pucks out of the tube as they will just sit in there and dissolve even if you turn it off as there is still water in there. It will be fumy so be careful when you open it.

When you are not draining you can push the FC up and let the pump run to mix it in good to get the SLAM going.

 

[spequigney]

I am relatively new like Lmh305 and have questions about recommended ranges, most notably Total Alkalinity (TA). I bought and have been using a Taylor K-2006 kit; they define ideal TA at 80-120ppm. We have water tested by a BioGuard dealer, and they define ideal TA at 125-150ppm - not even an overlap! I would think chemistry would be much more dialed in than that. TFP values are 50-60 minimum, 60-80 ideal, 80-90 max. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.

 

[kevinskii]

I had a similar question a few days ago. Marty posted a helpful answer here:

TFP recommendations differ from other sources.

Hello, new pool owner here. Our pool has a pebble tec liner and a SWG. After re-reading the Pool School and going through various owner's manuals, I've noticed that the TFP differs substantially from the other sources on the recommended TA and CYA levels: TPF recommends: Taylor test kit and...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[spequigney]

Thanks kevinskii, that was very enlightening. I've done the pool school, combining the information with research I've done previously from various sources. My conclusion is following the formulas on this site won't work for me out of the gate, I'll have to ease into it. The reason is that I'm only here a few years, and my wife has been at this house, with this pool, for much longer.

She uses Bioguard Silkguard Complete tablets that are used both in the chlorinator at the pump, and in a floating dispenser. So moving to bleach or liquid chlorine is not going to happen near term. She also has Lo 'N Slo to lower pH, once that is gone I'll move to muriatic or dry acid.

I'm switching right away from Balance PAK 100 to baking soda for TA, and as I mentioned here this is the greatest area of confusion. Taylor (test kit company) recommends 80-120ppm, the pool store 125-150 (they're the ones that sell the chlorine tablets and shock, which they recommend two bags per week Burnout 3), TFP ideal 60-80. So it ends up being guesswork for me so I'm going to follow Taylor to start.

CYA tested at 52 to start the year, is now up to 62 and I know this impacts FC. There's another area of confusion - Taylor and Bioguard both call for FC 1-4ppm (2-4 ideal) while the Chlorine/CYA chart calls for 7-9ppm. Not sure what to do here - since its too cold to swim, I'll keep monitoring and decide as time goes by and levels change. With CYA at 62 it tested at 5.6ppm.

 

[duraleigh]

spequiney,

You have hi-jacked lmh305's thread but I'll respond anyway. You will be unsuccessful using TFP methods when you try to mix and match other suggestions from other places.

Sounds a little haughty, I know, but there are about 200,000 members who are on this forum....most of them pool owners who have all contributed to our methodology.

TFP stands by it's suggestions and doesn't feel the need to defend our parameters. Years and years of reports based on science and anecdotal experience (thousands and thousands of pools) have demonstrated that what we do works.....time after time

I hope you keep reading and discover how serious we are about pool care. That said, it appears you are pretty set in cement about your methodology so you should follow the path that makes the most sense to you.

 

[kevinskii]

Hi Spequigney,
I completely understand the hesitation to follow the TFP methodology if your wife has another system that has been working. If it isn’t broken, maybe don’t fix it?

That said, as a fellow noob I don’t take everything at face value here. Whenever I learn something on TFP that contradicts other sources or my pool guy’s recommendations, I research it further. And so far I can’t think of any case I’ve found where other expert sources have contradicted the advice here, given all of the facts.

 

[Lmh305]

So I have been following the SLAM process for 3 days now and been keeping up with adding 12.5% liquid chlorine every 3-4 hours to keep it at SLAM level. CYA is at 80. I’ve noticed that typically through the day I lose about 2-4ppm every 3-4 hours. My CC has consistently been 1 through this process. My biggest confusion is the amount of FC I keep losing overnight still. Last night when I tested FC was at 35 around 10pm. This morning it was down to 25 at 6:30am. Should there be such a dramatic loss of FC overnight? My water was a tad bit hazy in the deep end when I start but since the first day has been crystal clear.

 

[LoneWolfArcher]

Overnight chlorine loss at that rate typically means something organic (IE algae). Keep SLAMing until you pass the OCLT.

You are on the right track!

 

[spequigney]

Duraleigh I take your comments to heart and don't think my post, other than regarding chlorine tabs, should be interpreted as set in cement; far from it actually. But in addition to my physical location I also live in Realville, and am not going to attempt to convince a woman who has owned a pool 20+ years and not long ago paid 5-figures to have it replastered to switch on a dime from chlorine tabs to liquid chlorine or bleach. pH and TA I can comfortably do, but if algae shows up I don't want fingers pointing my way. I've always intended to further immerse myself in the educational resources here. The real test comes when the weather heats up - we've had the coldest May on record.

I never asked anyone to defend parameters - but to kevinskii's point about researching recommendations, I've not seen any source in my research that recommends FC of 6-8 with CYA of 50. I've seen 2-4 in around ten places. Same thing with my original point of confusion - TFP defines ideal TA as 60-80, pool store 125-150, a heck of a spread.

 

[LoneWolfArcher]

Duraleigh I take your comments to heart and don't think my post, other than regarding chlorine tabs, should be interpreted as set in cement; far from it actually. But in addition to my physical location I also live in Realville, and am not going to attempt to convince a woman who has owned a pool 20+ years and not long ago paid 5-figures to have it replastered to switch on a dime from chlorine tabs to liquid chlorine or bleach. pH and TA I can comfortably do, but if algae shows up I don't want fingers pointing my way. I've always intended to further immerse myself in the educational resources here. The real test comes when the weather heats up - we've had the coldest May on record.

I never asked anyone to defend parameters - but to kevinskii's point about researching recommendations, I've not seen any source in my research that recommends FC of 6-8 with CYA of 50. I've seen 2-4 in around ten places. Same thing with my original point of confusion - TFP defines ideal TA as 60-80, pool store 125-150, a heck of a spread.

One of my biggest eye-openers related to pool stores was the realization that their goal is to sell you products. Do this test: Walk into a pool store and tell them: "I can't seem to get my pH adjusted correctly it is too high, as is Total Alkalinity, the water is murky and I am tired of adding LC every couple of days." The clerk's eyes will light up they will lead you to 3 or 4 shelves, have you grab 100s of dollars worth of chemicals, and ring you up and send you on your way. I have never once had a clerk in a pool store ask me to about testing, how test, or even care to test themselves before telling me all of the things I need to dump in my water. So what I learned coming here a year ago is to use the pool store when I need to to buy what I need (equipment, LC, and that's about it), but never take their advice. The first year I owned my pool my water chemistry was a mess and it was a nightmare chasing numbers that I wasn't sure about. Once I got my test-kit as recommended, switched to LC, and learned that the only things I ever need to put in my water was LC, muriatic acid to lower pH, and borax to raise it, my pool became a joy to own.

The experts here will gladly tell you, "it is your pool, do what you think you need to". But if you follow the advice here it will save you money and it will save you time since you will be doing the "ounce of prevention" rather than constantly doing a "pound of cure"!

 

[spequigney]

Point taken LWA, that was a main motivation for taking over - as I discussed Balance PAK 100 and Lo 'N Slo will no longer be bought, but she has $100 of chlorine tabs already which should last the whole season. The Marty post referenced above provided insight on what impact using those vs LC will have on CYA, TA, pH.

 

[LoneWolfArcher]

Point taken LWA, that was a main motivation for taking over - as I discussed Balance PAK 100 and Lo 'N Slo will no longer be bought, but she has $100 of chlorine tabs already which should last the whole season. The Marty post referenced above provided insight on what impact using those vs LC will have on CYA, TA, pH.

Understood. Abandoning $100 worth of pucks was a tough decision for me as well. I was trying to sell the house I had moved out of and my finances were definitely more of a concern than they are now. My only suggestion would be to make sure you get a good testkit and measure you CYA level. Because if it is already too high then look at this math:

"Two 8 ounce pucks is one pound and one puck in 10,000 gallons increases CYA by 3.3 ppm. So in 23,000 gallons, (2 pucks/pound) * (50 pounds) * (3.3 ppm/puck-in-10,000-gallons) * (10,000 gallons / 23,000 gallons) = 144 ppm CYA. This assumes no dilution from splash-out or rain overflow or backwashing. "

This is from a non-TFP source so this is universal math. My CYA was over 200ppm after the first summer I owned my pool. It started at 100ppm (already too high) and puck usage blew it past 200 by September, and that's when I started having algae issues. Remember, the higher the CYA the less effective your chlorine is. IE, your $100 in pucks may not be enough as your chlorine load increases.

 

[spequigney]

That is great, love that formula. I've been using a K-2006 test kit. Today I tested FC, CC, pH, CYA, and CH. FC is 3, CYA is 53, highest I've seen since last August is 62 (pool store test). For the past week I've spent 1-1.5 hours/day skimming, cold weather lead to late tree blooming and it has been very windy. Today its pouring rain, so I'll be closely monitoring how the introduction of organic material plus rain is affecting my chlorine. For my wife its not so much the $100 in tablets, but rather that she takes change slowly (still drives to the bank to make her mortgage payment) so once she gets comfortable with me testing and using baking soda, soda ash, and muriatic/dry acid we can move away from the tablets and Burnout 3 shock to what is recommend here.

 

[kimkats]

She sounds just like me...........I do NOT take to change very well. You are doing a good job easing her into it slowly without forcing it on her. No surer way to get my back than to tell me I HAVE to do something not of my own choosing!

 

[LoneWolfArcher]

That is great, love that formula. I've been using a K-2006 test kit. Today I tested FC, CC, pH, CYA, and CH. FC is 3, CYA is 53, highest I've seen since last August is 62 (pool store test). For the past week I've spent 1-1.5 hours/day skimming, cold weather lead to late tree blooming and it has been very windy. Today its pouring rain, so I'll be closely monitoring how the introduction of organic material plus rain is affecting my chlorine. For my wife its not so much the $100 in tablets, but rather that she takes change slowly (still drives to the bank to make her mortgage payment) so once she gets comfortable with me testing and using baking soda, soda ash, and muriatic/dry acid we can move away from the tablets and Burnout 3 shock to what is recommend here.

Excellent. Yeah it was tough for me last year too. I bought about $200 worth of stuff, just to abandon it all when I found this forum. And my scruples won't allow me to sell it to some other poor rube! Live and learn.