Fair but if this information turns out to be accurate presumably there is a way for me to bring down and maintain the proper CH level?
Hi from Texas
- Thread starter Maldravus
- Start date
I submitted a service request through their portal to get confirmation so that I have something in writing. I also need to pull the specs on the heat pump to see if there is a minimum CH level required and, if so and if it's greater than 120ppm, why they installed this setup without understanding that.
annnnnd just confirmed via my heat pump owners manual. Recommended CH levels between 200-400ppm with "corrosion to heat exchanger" listed as an effect of low CH. Hopefully the pool manufacturer is incorrect otherwise it seems I may need to have a discussion with our PB.
Really hoping some other FG owners will chime in. I wonder if this is just an LP thing or FG pools in general? Clearly they’ve had to deal with this in the past because they have an entire underlined paragraph in the calcium section basically saying pool suppliers are giving people incorrect information when it comes to caring for FG pools.
It all depends on the CH in your tap water which is probably already above what they claim what the limit should be. Just ignore it.
My Thursday Pools brand FG pool recommendations for CH levels are between 200-400ppm. AND their FC recommendations are the standard boiler plate 1-3 ppm. I’ve learned just to trust TFP and all the experts on here’s recommendations!
Thanks for the reply. That is insane! Surely Leisure Pools made a typo or else there is something funny going on. I have a ticket in with them and will share the results when I hear back.
It may very well have been that somebody double pasted the TA recommendation and with nobody who actually understands any of it, it's now the law many moons later.
Everybody else is 200-400 CH, most likely because of unfriendly fill water for so many.
They clearly haven't updated the TDS rec to account for 25? years of widespread SWG pools. They go back to the 80s. Lol.
I can definitely see that happening but would be shocked if they didn’t amend their documentation to be accurate. If that is actually incorrect they are causing damage to peoples equipment.
I know you are real anxious about all of this so my suggestion is to document what you know for your discussion with PB and/or the mfg of the pool. Also, take a breath- it is not the end of the world.
1) I think the CH requirement could be an error or some old requirement. Most households water is above 120ppm Hardness. The only way to reduce hardness is to drain the pool and refill but if you are refilling with high hardness water then it is a no can-do situation.
Note - test your household water so you have that documented as well.
2) Because of the heater requirements, they are saying you cannot have a heater with a FG pool. Again this is a no win situation.
3) as was pointed out by @Newdude , If TDS is max 1500ppm but salt requirement is 3000ppm of which salt is a component of TDS, then this is also unachievable. Are they saying you cannot have a Saltwater pool with a FG shell?
This will all work out. Just take it one step at a time.
I have tested my fill water and the CH was 130. Still not achievable but much closer than where I’m at now which is 200. Agree on your second point, makes no sense. For 3, they’re literally contradicting themselves because on their website they heavily advertise SWCG and how “fiberglass pools are fantastic candidates for saltwater”.
I will share the outcome when I hear from Leisure Pools for anyone else who may own one. I suspect it is either a typo or old data but getting them to admit that may be tricky. If they do tell me that is correct then I have an entirely new set of problems. Why did my PB install the heat pump despite these issues? I guess best case scenario if they say those numbers are correct maybe I can fight my PB for a heat pump with lower CH requirements. Cross that bridge when I get there, I suppose.
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,880
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
The 200 recommendation does not apply to Heat Pumps, electric heaters, or solar heaters.
Calcium Hardness - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
I confirmed that is the range in the owners manual that came with our heat pump. See attached.The 200 recommendation does not apply to Heat Pumps, electric heaters, or solar heaters.
Calcium Hardness - Further Reading
Attachments
Here is the manual FWIW. The exact model is HP31205T. The water chemistry table is on page 21. https://hayward.com/media/akeneo_connector/asset_files/5/1/51300122601_RevC_ad6a.pdf
So I’m a bit confused. Are you saying even with the 200-400 range from the handbook it still does not apply to heat pumps per TFP methodology? This is all a bit confusing.
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,880
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
There is no science or chemistry supporting the required CH levels for a HP or SWG. Those are vestiges of the writers carrying forward general pool chemical levels without giving it any thought.
You can decide whose recommendations you want to follow. We like to follow the science.
Understood and that’s fair. I very much like to stick to the book. Manufacturers recommendations / spec sheets are basically the Bible in my line of work so that kinda carries over. Is this science documented somewhere here I can read? I mean no offense or disrespect at all but I’m leery of disregarding Haywards official formal recommendations because I was told so in a forum post. Granted as you pointed out their info can be outdated and incorrect as well but I just want to be sure I’m making the correct choice based on what information I have to work with. Thank you for your patience and your help so far and apologies if I am asking too many questions.
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,880
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Questions are all good.
You are going to end up violating the pool manual (80-120) or the heater manual (200-400). Violation is inevitable.
CH is not required for HP. CH, at the levels we are talking about, you will not damage your HP with Calcium of 200.
I'd resolve the calcium issue with the FG pool maker, and go ahead and run 200.
There is never any plumbing corrosion due to low calcium levels. It is all a misunderstanding from a long long time ago when someone was trying to figure out the ideal chemical levels for closed circuit boiler water at a time when the chemistry involved was only partially understood. That has carried forward.
And more from your manual above:
You are going to end up violating the pool manual (80-120) or the heater manual (200-400). Violation is inevitable.
CH is not required for HP. CH, at the levels we are talking about, you will not damage your HP with Calcium of 200.
I'd resolve the calcium issue with the FG pool maker, and go ahead and run 200.
There is never any plumbing corrosion due to low calcium levels. It is all a misunderstanding from a long long time ago when someone was trying to figure out the ideal chemical levels for closed circuit boiler water at a time when the chemistry involved was only partially understood. That has carried forward.
And more from your manual above:
- Just like FC must be 1-3. No, it depends on your CYA.
- CYA must be 30-50. Lots of pools that run with higher CYA (SWG) or lower (indoor pool).
- TA must be 80-120. Maybe, if you are using pucks, without pucks, your pH rise will be high.
- pH must be 7.4 to 7.8. Show me a pool, with a TA of 120, that doesn't require almost daily MA additions to maintain that level of pH. Or, show me a pool that has a pH that is stable in that range that doesn't have a TA of 50-60. They don't exist.
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