Thanks. Not really understanding what method from this article I would employ. I have 4x deck jets which I suppose technically aerate, but from reading this that would just also raise my PH, right?
Hi from Texas
- Thread starter Maldravus
- Start date
Up to you if you want to build something like the submersible pump attachment in the thread, or just run everything you have and angle your returns up for more surface movement.
Kinda like the decision to force the TA down, one way is faster but neither is wrong.
- Jul 17, 2019
- 4,069
- Pool Size
- 13000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
My advice is to ignore your TA, and ignore your pH until it gets ABOVE 8.0.
Then when its above 8.0, adjust your pH down to 7.2 (I recommend doing this in increments spaced out by 30 mins and testing in between). That will knock your TA down a bit as well, but still primarily focus on pH.
Your pH will not stay at 7.2 for long at all, maybe a few hours or a day later it will likely be closer to 7.6. Then a few days later at 7.8, then a few days or a week later at 8.0. Hopefully it will hang out at 8.0 for a good while, but test it every few days and once it hits 8.2, knock it down to 7.2 and repeat the process.
The above will help you correct your TA over time, and also keep your sanity without micro managing your pH. The pH rise is not linear and in TX our water seems to like to be 7.8-8.0 so most people just let it.
Then when its above 8.0, adjust your pH down to 7.2 (I recommend doing this in increments spaced out by 30 mins and testing in between). That will knock your TA down a bit as well, but still primarily focus on pH.
Your pH will not stay at 7.2 for long at all, maybe a few hours or a day later it will likely be closer to 7.6. Then a few days later at 7.8, then a few days or a week later at 8.0. Hopefully it will hang out at 8.0 for a good while, but test it every few days and once it hits 8.2, knock it down to 7.2 and repeat the process.
The above will help you correct your TA over time, and also keep your sanity without micro managing your pH. The pH rise is not linear and in TX our water seems to like to be 7.8-8.0 so most people just let it.
Ok I guess that makes sense. I am not sure how I will know when it's above 8.0 since that's the highest mark on the tube. Also, another question; I am doing more research and see that MA is significantly heavier than water. Even if it gets sorta blown around by the return, would it not settle onto the floor?
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,872
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
It will have a purple hue.
Adding Muriatic acid to water results in hydronium ions and chloride ions, does not float around as muriatic. Dropping a slug without mixing, it can stay as MA. Mixing, the reaction is fairly quick…
HCl(aq) + H2O(l) → H3O+(aq) + Cl-(aq).
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- Jul 17, 2019
- 4,069
- Pool Size
- 13000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Don't get too caught up in the MA horror stories. My theory is that they are caused by:
1. Dummies who take no precautions in adding MA and literally just dump it in the pool as fast as they can causing it all to sink to the bottom. I could see where doing that could damage your pool, especially fiberglass over time.
2. Pool stores who do not sell MA and want to steer you towards buying the "safer" alternatives they sell will perpetuate the fears caused by the dummies in #1 using MA incorrectly.
Yes, Leslie's has done this to me. In front of a customer who happened to be a pool maintenance technician. They said do NOT use MA in a fiberglass pool. The only treatment I have done so far I added it very slowly in front of a return, stirred it a bit, and scrubbed for maybe 15-20 minutes. I inspected the floor later that evening and did not see any visible damage. However I am a bit concerned particularly after seeing the damage the reagents and rubbing alcohol have caused to my Koolcote. So I am not sure if I will / should continue with MA or go back to my dry acid dilute method. It is really tricky. Suppose I can dilute MA into a 5 gallon bucket but it's so hard to tell if it's settling to the bottom and causing damage. Is there any official direction from fiberglass pool builders? Perhaps I need to contact my builder to ask. Or would it be the shell manufacturer?
Sorry for the many questions; I just noticed a pretty significant buildup on the inside of my robotic skimmer basket. It's effectively a white, chalky substance on the sides. This unit runs 24/7 and I empty the basket every other day or so. Any idea what that is and does this indicate a chemical imbalance? For reference; this is the exact unit - Betta SE Plus - Solar Powered Smart Robotic Pool Skimmer
- Jul 17, 2019
- 4,069
- Pool Size
- 13000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I'm not sure the pool builder would offer any good guidance regarding MA. I would put more credence in users here that have used MA on their fiberglass pools for years, but I get where you are coming from. I have plaster so cannot give you first hand experience here.
As for the white flakes, you could collect them and put a few drops of MA on them. If they are calcium flakes, they should react by bubbling. That will tell you if its calcium or something else.
I'm north of you, but we have been getting crazy wind the past few weeks and I'm getting a lot of dirt/dust/grit that I usually don't always see in my robot. Mine is more brown/red dust blown in from west texas, mixed in with all sorts of pollen.
As for the white flakes, you could collect them and put a few drops of MA on them. If they are calcium flakes, they should react by bubbling. That will tell you if its calcium or something else.
I'm north of you, but we have been getting crazy wind the past few weeks and I'm getting a lot of dirt/dust/grit that I usually don't always see in my robot. Mine is more brown/red dust blown in from west texas, mixed in with all sorts of pollen.
My fill water runs 120-140 TA but over time I have been able to hold my pool water TA in the 60-70 range. It just takes time. TA moves in small increments downwards when you add MA. So continue to add MA to lower pH to 7.5/7.6 - let it rise to 8.0/8.2 and dose again with MA. This is more of a marathon to get to a proper TA than a sprint. One day you will test and see TA of 90 then a little later it will be 80, just continue the process.
What type of pool do you have? Curious to hear some feedback from FG pool owners who have used MA for many years.
Is there a cost calculator floating around somewhere? I am curious about the price of chlorine. I am using a significant amount of LC since I moved to TFPC and we haven't even hit summer yet. I spent exactly $200.25 after tax on 50lbs of trichlor tablets from Doheny's which I have discontinued using since discovering TFP. I am spending $6.02 after tax per 128oz jug of LC from Walmart. Is LC really a better value given my location in Texas? I just added 58oz of LC this morning and I expect to add an equal amount tomorrow. In other words nearly half a gallon a day in the Spring, presumably ramping to nearly three quarters of a gallon a day, if not more, in the summer. If these numbers continue, I will need some help understanding how this is more cost effective for me.
- May 3, 2014
- 62,672
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
What is your fill water cost?
You can use the Trichlor. You test the CYA level every 2 weeks. Adjust the FC levels (by using more trichlor) as the CYA increases. When the CYA gets to 60 ppm, you drain half of the pool water volume and refill. Start over. You also must monitor pH and TA as you likely will need to add baking soda.
I actually went back and reviewed the monthly water bills because I was curious how much it costs to fill the pool. The answer is approximately $65. I have not yet calculated weekly / monthly fill pricing but plan to review the bills to figure that out (though I suspect their numbers aren't a very accurate depiction). I guess it would depend how long it takes my CYA levels to get to a level where I need to be doing water exchanges (my installer was very good at ensuring I am aware I can NEVER drain my FG pool or else it voids the warranty). The CYA tests would be costly assuming I did them myself. I suppose I could revert back to Leslie's testing to save some costs if I had to test every 2 weeks. Maybe I work up some plan to float a single trichlor tab in my robot constantly and supplement with LC - maybe self-test CYA monthly. I am honestly not sure. I am becoming more comfortable with daily testing but I can see LC costs getting out of control if I am already adding this much every day.
Upper left menu in poolmath has a bleach calculator to compare various strengths of bleach. 10% vs 12.5% for example.
Or use the same upper left menu 'effects of adding' to see how many FC each bucket of tabs, box of shock, gallon of 10% (etc) makes for further comparison.
Thats 4 FC and about your max dose. Maybe it's 5ppm a day on the insane days. Earlier or later in the season it's much less.
An ounce of prevention whoops a pound of cure. If you explore other threads while visiting, you'll see newb story after story soon with many saying how much they spent for terrible results. We'll have a big influx of opening swamps soon with the north coming back online.
Thank you! I just ran the numbers and yeah, LC is nearly double the price of the tablets I bought. Rats. Feels like I am constantly going back and forth and really don't know what to do.
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,872
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Prices from In the Swim:
Trichlor $359 for 50 lb. = 7.18 per pound, will raise FC by 10 per lb. So, $0.718 per FC. Each pound will also raise CYA by 6ppm.
Dichlor $217 for 40 lb. = 5.425 per pound, will raise FC by 6 per lb. So , $0.904 per FC. Each pound will also raise CYA by 6ppm.
Cal-Hypo (68%) $260 for 50 lb. = 5.2 per pound, will raise FC by 7 per lb. So, $0.742 per FC. Each pound will also raise CH by 5ppm.
Liquid chlorine is $6 / Gallon at Walmart = 9.1 FC in your pool, or = $0.66 per FC.
Circupool RJ-20 is $1300. ( CircuPool RJ-20 PLUS Saltwater Chlorinator | Discount Salt Pool)
Outputs .9lb / day = 9.8 FC / day in 11K pool.
Lifespan of 15,000hours = 625 days at 100%
625* 9.8 = 6,125FC
$1300/6125 = $0.21 per FC.
Even if the cell lasts only 7500 hours, it is still $0.42 per FC.
SWG is the cheapest, liquid next and solids are the most expensive. This is not including water cost with the solid forms of chlorine.
Trichlor $359 for 50 lb. = 7.18 per pound, will raise FC by 10 per lb. So, $0.718 per FC. Each pound will also raise CYA by 6ppm.
Dichlor $217 for 40 lb. = 5.425 per pound, will raise FC by 6 per lb. So , $0.904 per FC. Each pound will also raise CYA by 6ppm.
Cal-Hypo (68%) $260 for 50 lb. = 5.2 per pound, will raise FC by 7 per lb. So, $0.742 per FC. Each pound will also raise CH by 5ppm.
Liquid chlorine is $6 / Gallon at Walmart = 9.1 FC in your pool, or = $0.66 per FC.
Circupool RJ-20 is $1300. ( CircuPool RJ-20 PLUS Saltwater Chlorinator | Discount Salt Pool)
Outputs .9lb / day = 9.8 FC / day in 11K pool.
Lifespan of 15,000hours = 625 days at 100%
625* 9.8 = 6,125FC
$1300/6125 = $0.21 per FC.
Even if the cell lasts only 7500 hours, it is still $0.42 per FC.
SWG is the cheapest, liquid next and solids are the most expensive. This is not including water cost with the solid forms of chlorine.
1) Search around for wholesale bleach distributors. Cleaning companies or such will sell 12.5% in 2.5 or 5 gallon containers for better then Walmart. I never needed to find them by me, but I'm sure they're here too. We have as many offices / hospitals / businesses that need commercial cleaning as anyone, and those cleaning companies get their stash from somewhere.
2) For every +10 cya, the FC goes up too. Once the FC is inadequate, the swamp takes over. It's penny wise and pound foolish and tabs keep a line of newbs around the corner here.
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,872
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Trichlor $200 for 50 lb. = $4 per pound, will raise FC by 10 per lb. So, $0.4 per FC. Each pound will also raise CYA by 6ppm.
Include the cost of the water and labor to replace when CYA gets too high.
Every pound (2 pucks) will raise CYA by 6. Every 5 lbs (10 pucks), you will be replacing water (30 CYA to 60 CYA).
SWG is still cheaper. LC from Walmart is not...for you.
Include the cost of the water and labor to replace when CYA gets too high.
Every pound (2 pucks) will raise CYA by 6. Every 5 lbs (10 pucks), you will be replacing water (30 CYA to 60 CYA).
SWG is still cheaper. LC from Walmart is not...for you.
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