Here we go!

[snazza]

Hi all, pretty new to all this pool maintenance (after my pool guy disappeared a few weeks back) - and I have questions!!

So the history is - we bought a house in Charlotte NC last year with an in ground gunite pool, which I believe is around 20k gallons (actually there’s my first Q - how on earth do I work out the volume??).

The survey we had done showed that the pool has a high CYA (around 130/140) - probably due to the previous owners using pucks in a feeder plumbed into the system.
All other parameters seemed to be pretty much in line - and the pool is crystal clear with no signs of algae or copper stains or anything similar.

Since last April my pool guy has been coming once a week in the summer and once every other week in the winter (until about 6 weeks ago).
He has been keeping things in trim with liquid shock / chlorine, occasional algicide & I believe he used murataic acid once (to bring down ph?).
He has also been periodically draining water and refilling to try and reduce cya level - the last time I saw him he said it was now ‘around 100’.

I am pretty diligent about skimming at least twice a day, check the skimmers regularly (and use pool socks - invaluable in pollen season here!), I have a Polaris pool vacuum that basically lives in the pool and is always on, I sweep the floors and walls probably every two weeks, and I am comfortable (I think) with the equipment and can clean baskets and change filters etc etc.

My hesitation at the moment all hinges around the chemistry side of things.

At the moment I only have test strips (one set that tests for three things, and one that tests seven) - having read the beginner topics on here I am about to order a TF pro kit to get a better handle on things.
The strips at the moment show that my calcium Hardback is a little high, my free chlorine seems to be in the right spot, my alkalinity seems to be correct - but I am getting conflicting readings on ph - the three test seems to show it as low, and the seven as high - maybe I’m just colour blind!!

With regards to chemicals - what should I always have on hand? - and what order and at what intervals should I be adding them?

thanks for any comments, answers, feedback in advance

Pete

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum.
Order a proper test kit. Now.
Add 3 ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine each day until you get your test kit.
You will need to have several gallons of liquid chlorine on hand. You may need muriatic acid. Those are the only two items you will need consistently.

Once you get your test kit, post the results here and we can help guide you on the path forward.

 

[dfwnoob]

Good looking pool! Like Marty says, once you get your test kit we can direct you to buy exactly what you need, no use in spending money unnecessarily. That being said, many of us in the Southern states rarely keep anything more than liquid chlorine, muriatic acid, and CYA on hand. Adding chlorine for now is a must (and I'd certainly consider a SWCG!).

I am pretty diligent about skimming at least twice a day, check the skimmers regularly (and use pool socks - invaluable in pollen season here!), I have a Polaris pool vacuum that basically lives in the pool and is always on, I sweep the floors and walls probably every two weeks, and I am comfortable (I think) with the equipment and can clean baskets and change filters etc etc.

Unless you're getting tons of stuff blowing in off those trees and making a huge mess, you usually don't need to burn up all that electricity running the Polaris nonstop. Mine is currently set to run for an hour in the middle of the night (the dog chases it around the pool if we run it during the day) and even with lots of trees around, anything that ends up at the bottom of the pool gets picked up during it's overnight run. Your pool is a bit bigger, but I'd still imagine a couple of hours max should do the trick. If you have a variable speed pump, running it at lower RPMs throughout the day is a better idea (and uses less electricity) since it'll skim off most the junk that falls in before it sinks to the bottom.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Snazza, the water looks good... but without a good testing to see, its hard for us to know the quality of the water. Water that looks good can still be aggressive to your plaster and equipment so we want to avoid any chance of that.

"Guess Strips" just don't give a proper reading of chemistry level. Most only give you a "range", and that's just not good enough (and questionably accurate) so the drop based kits we endorse (either the K-2006C found online, or the TF-Pro found at www.tftestkits.net ) is what you want. Yes, they're more costly than the "Guess Strips" but will save you far more when compared to the mistakes test strips cause folks to spend.

That's a beautiful pool!

Maddie

 

[RHanna]

You don't really know if your free chlorine is in the right spot until you know the CYA. Alkalinity is pretty easy but don't buy the pool store product for that, just go to walmart and buy baking soda. Our pool section of the store has a big bag of it, I think 15 lbs. You'll likely add chlorine the most often, every day if you want it to be stable. Or just buy a SWG.

The chemistry isn't that hard but I will say I hate the CYA test. All the other tests you'll just add drops until it changes color, not difficult at all. I don't like test strips or any test that makes me interpret the color on a scale. I'm not color blind but I feel like the colors are too close together to differentiate easily. The drops will go from green to blue (just making that up) but it's very distinct. Each test has different time intervals that you must test. For example, FC/pH will be tested the most often and all the others less often. It's just based off of how quickly the levels can change over time.

 

[snazza]

HI again all - received my TF 100 pro kit yesterday (which is properly well done btw) and I have my first readings!!

I hope you can cast your expert eyes over the below - and tell me if I have things right

Ok - so let's start with the (what I know already) is the bad

CYA
the test itself took a little getting used to - but I did it 6 times to make sure I got the same reading over and over
Result = 105 / 110 (I had to extrapolate a little as the tube only measures to 100).
Solution = ?? I know in an ideal world I should drain 30-40% of the water and refil - is there any other solution at all?

Chlorine Drop Test
Results = FC - 2.5ppm, CC - 0ppm, so TC = 2.5ppm
Solution = (with CYA at 110) add 1 gallon of 12% bleach chlorine

Calcium Hardness Test
Results = 425ppm
Solution = I believe this is slightly under target - but ok?

Total Alkalinity
Results = 120
Solution = add acid (see 'The Daily Tests' below)

The Daily Tests
Results = CL BR 2 4, PH 8.2
Solution = I think the CL is ok? on the PH - with TA at 120 - add 1quart of 29% Muriatic acid.


hopefully the above all reads correctly?

If so - what is the order that I should be fixing things?
the CYA issue is one that may take me some time to get to - so with that in mind should I do PH first - then TC?


once again a million thanks in advance

Pete

 

[Oly]

First test your CYA again using a 50% pool water and 50% tap water solution and double the result. Your actual CYA may be much higher than 100ppm. What is your water temp now?
As water temperatures rise your pool sanitation will become a bigger issue so you do need to begin planning a partial drain and refill. Find out your actual CYA ppm and research the groundwater level at your property to avoid severly damaging your pool by draining too much.
Focus on maintaining your FC and pH only now. FC/CYA Levels
Adjust your other parameters after your refill.

 

[snazza]

hey guys - just an update from me

I did another CYA test (this time diluted as suggested - so 7.5ml of pool water + 7.5ml of tap water + 15ml of solution)
I did four separate tests and had my daughter 'check my working'. On each pass it showed between 45 and 50, so i think my actual CYA to be between 90 and 100 - let's call it 100 to be on the safe side.
I have a company coming to quote me for replacing 50 -60% of my water this weekend. I also found out we have a high water table, so any messing around with draining and refilling I am leaving to the pros!!

I have managed to get the PH down to around 7.8. I will add a little more Muriatic Acid on Saturday and try and get it down to 7.5ish

My FC is now at 6ppm - still no CC (is this an issue??) meaning that TC is also 6. Pool math is telling me with my CYA this high i should aim for around 8-11ppm, so will add a little more liquid chlorine at the weekend.

My TA is still at 120, although reading was borderline 110. I guess as I bring the PH down this will adjust too?

I think I am getting the hang of it - and it is certainly much less daunting than I thought!!

Thank you all!!

Best

P

 

[mknauss]

Up to you but doing a no drain exchange is easy, cheap, and safe for your pool.
Read Draining - Further Reading

 

[Newdude]

(which is properly well done btw)

It's NICE, right ? It's hard to convey but I was super impressed with mine and still am.

Also, you're spinning your wheels with the other parameters if you're going to drain soon. Maintain your FC so you don't get a swamp while you wait. The TA/PH/CH will all get change proportionately between your current pool water and the fill water.

 

[proavia]

If you are having a "pro" do the drain, be sure you have a written contract that states they are liable if the pool pops or other damage ensues. Also make sure they are licensed, bonded and insured.

Of course, the no drain water exchange is safer and would probably cost you less if you did it yourself.

I see you have PoolMath linked correctly to the forum.
Enter your test results in PoolMath and everyone here will see your test results when they click on your profile picture, then PoolMath Logs.

Or you can post them here manually...
FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Water temperature

Keep the format simple and add any explanations below to keep everythig easy to review.

 

[Mdragger88]

Get fc in target range ASAP & keep it there, do not wait until the weekend.
FC/CYA Levels
bare minimum is 8ppm & fc should never fall below that lest nasties will grow

For future reference, for the cya test-
you can pour the mixture from the tube back into the little squirty bottle & repeat the last part of the test as many times as necessary to get an average/ you don’t need to get a new sample & use more reagent. Just shake, wait, & repeat.

You need to exchange 50% of your water sooner rather than later - the rest of the parameters can wait aside from keeping ph in the 7’s & maintaining fc.
As mentioned above the no drain water exchange is the safest option & can be done yourself for the cost of water & possibly a pump purchase/rental if you don’t already have one.

For the other tests-
0 cc’s is a good thing
Free chlorine (FC/good stuff)
+
Combined Chlorine (cc’s/bad stuff)
= Total Chlorine (TC)
The yellow OTO “daily test” only measures TC (total chlorine) up to 5ppm
& It is not a very accurate test so you should stick to the fas/dpd tests for fc & cc’s
Its more of a “do I have any chlorine or not?” kinda test. Ignore the BR#’s that’s bromine & you don’t have that.

 

[snazza]

Thanks for the feedback all - will see what the water guys charges and policies (re liabilities) are this weekend - but will have a go at the no drain exchange thing myself I think ....although just on a quick and dirty calculation (household tap about 10 gallons per minute) - will take 17 hours to do 50% ??? - the wife may kill me

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Make a call to the water company as they often will deduct the pool fill volume from any sewer/rain water fees.

 

[snazza]

ok - so a quote of 1700 dollars is not going to fly!! - so I will attempt to tackle it myself.

Having read a little about the procdure - it seems to imply that you do it all in 'one hit.
This is going to be very difficult in reality - so is it possible to do it in say 3 or 4 chunks?

 

[Newdude]

This is going to be very difficult in reality - so is it possible to do it in say 3 or 4 chunks?

Each subsequent drain loses efficiency because you remove a proportionate amount of 'good' water with the 'bad'. Ten 10% drains only removes 55% of the water, or two 50% drains remove 75%, for example.

A no drain water exchange is better in that case. Read the link Marty posted above in post #9 and see which method will work best for you. We will advise further once you decide.

 

[RHanna]

ok - so a quote of 1700 dollars is not going to fly!! - so I will attempt to tackle it myself.

Having read a little about the procdure - it seems to imply that you do it all in 'one hit.
This is going to be very difficult in reality - so is it possible to do it in say 3 or 4 chunks?

Why don't you want to do it all at once? Do you have more than one spigot? I filled my pool up with 3 of mine with a lot of garden hoses and even used 1 from my neighbors house (I offered to pay for the water).

 

[Mdragger88]

ok - so a quote of 1700 dollars is not going to fly!! - so I will attempt to tackle it myself.

Having read a little about the procdure - it seems to imply that you do it all in 'one hit.
This is going to be very difficult in reality - so is it possible to do it in say 3 or 4

It does require some monitoring but it can be completed fairly painlessly. Breaking it up means water mixes & you end up using much more water.

 

[snazza]

small update from me - bought a pump, and did the 'no drain water exchange' - CYA now showing at somewhere between 60 and 70 ,.......so still a tiny weeny bit high - but manageable?

been tinkering with Muriatic and liquid chlorine this week - PH now about 7.6, FC is at 5 no CC and clear - pretty happy so far

 

[proavia]

If you CYA test result is between 60 and 70, round up to 70.
The scale on the tube is logarithmic, not linear. You can't interpolate between the markings on the tube.

Also - for CYA70, FC 5 is the MINIMUM recommended. Target is FC 8-10. Letting the FC slip below minimum is flirting with a nascent algae bloom.

I see you have one of the recommended test kits. Please add it to your signature.