Here is Another DFW Build

[Prosperjl]

We are currently pending permits for our new build. PB has been great to work with. Specs are below in signature. Depth starts at 3.5’, move to 5’, and back to 4’. I have seen several comments on TFP that 3.5’ is a bit too shallow. I inquired about the tweak with my PB, and he said it would be a no cost change, but advised against it. The reasoning being, the last step would be 18” rather than 12”, and that the area between the 3.5’ area and the 4’ area is negligible. To me, the 18” step would be an issue.

Are there any folks out there with 3.5’ that can offer insight?

On a separate note, I had PB remove cleaner/booster as I’m going to go robot route. They are going to plumb the pressure cleaner line and leave space on pad/pre-wire for booster if I decide to go that route in the future. I’m going to be giving Margaret at Marina a call. I’m leaning towards either S200 or S300i. I want, or think I want a GFI that is tied to the intellicenter that will run the robot. It’s my understanding the robot needs autonomous mode, which both of these have. I want a cart, and I dig the Bluetooth features of the 300i, but if I’m running through intellicenter, is there really any benefits?

 

[Jimrahbe]

JL,

The robot is not really run "through" the IntelliCenter.. It will have a GFCI outlet that you plug the robot into, but the automation will not turn your robot on or off.. The robot does that all by itself.

How do you plan to sanitize your pool?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Woohoo, another Prosper member. Welcome.

 

[kimkats]

I would leave your depth at 3.5' for the step as 18" is way too big. 12" is almost too high but at least doable.

LOVE the design!

Kim

 

[Prosperjl]

JL,

The robot is not really run "through" the IntelliCenter.. It will have a GFCI outlet that you plug the robot into, but the automation will not turn your robot on or off.. The robot does that all by itself.

How do you plan to sanitize your pool?

Thanks,

Jim R.

It was my understanding the robot could be in automation mode and when power is applied via GFI, the unit will kick on. The plan was to have the GFI on a switch (IntelliCenter) which would eliminate need to manage two apps.

I’ll be sanitizing with chlorine. I have read about SWG, but PB is saying it will impact the travertine deck and coping. Also we had some friends with a basketball hoop near pool. It had rusted significantly in a couple years. I have no idea if they were keeping their numbers in line, but it has me gun shy.

 

[Cody]

I live in Prosper as well. Congrats on the pool.

Every pool builder told me to avoid SWG. After 4 years of lugging gallon jugs of chlorine, trying to find fresh chlorine in stock, etc, I converted my pool to a SWG a couple months ago. Best decision I ever made. I would recommend you do more research on SWG...I wish I would have.

Congrats again!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jl,

My robot has that option and I tried to use it by just turning the outlet on and off.. I could not get it to work. I'll admit that I did not spend a lot of time trying, so I might have been doing something wrong. But, I suspect you have to have constant power and a command gets sent to the robot's power center to tell it to come on..

I'd sure be interested to know if anyone has this working,

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Snikwah]

Congrats.. welcome to the DFW club!

 

[Prosperjl]

I asked the PB again about SWG, here is the response. For those of you with a SWG and 2+ seasons in TX, please let me know your thoughts:

PB Response:
Having had a pool with a salt cell before, I’m not a big fan because:
1. You have to add acid each week to maintain the ph
2. The cell will need to be removed and soaked in an acid bath quarterly
3. The salt will corrode everything around the pool
4. The stone will need to be sealed and resealed every couple years
5. They don’t produce enough chlorine in the summer, so you still have to add chlorine
6. The cell will need to be replaced every 5-7 yrs
7. The upfront cost including sealing the stone is a little pricey (we usually sell it with the easy touch 4 or 8, but I’ll find out the stand alone cost)

It’s entirely up to you, and I know it sounds strange to not try to sell you one, but I don’t think they are worth the money.

If you’re looking for softer water, I recommend adding biogaurd during startup. We used to sell it, but sold off our chemical / supply business, but you can find it online.

 

[kimkats]

Most of those problems come from not having TFP level water as well as having a swg too small for the pool. We say go 2x the size of the pool.

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

A pretty typical response from someone that does not fully understand how a Saltwater Pool works...

1. You do have to add a small amount of acid to control your pH.. I don't see this as anything bad. Tablets have acid in them, so you are adding acid each time you use a tablet..
2. If you maintain your chemicals so that your CSI is in range, then any build up in the cell is very minimal. Some people never get any scale, even after years of use. I look at mine twice a year when I clean my filter.. I only clean the cell if needed.
3. Total bull... If you have things in your backyard that can rust, they will rust with or without a SWCG..
4. More bull.. Any stone that can be damaged by SWCG will also be damaged by normal pool water. Have your pool builder explain how the small level of salt in pool water can damage stone.. If true, you would think that seawater, which has 10 x the salt level would have already eaten into middle of the country by now.
5. Bull x 10... If you don't understand how a SWCG works, it is impossible to install the right size SWCG and impossible to explain to the new pool owner how to properly maintain their FC level..
6. No bull here.. You will have to replace the cell after it is used up.. This usually takes 5 to 10 years depending on the size of the cell. Keep in mind you just need to replace the cell and not the whole system.. Cost wise it is about the same overall cost as using tablets and the required weekly bags of shock for 5 years...
7. Having an automation system makes the control a little easier, but it is not required or even necessary. I like having an automation system, but even if they did not exist, I would still have a saltwater pool.

I currently have three saltwater pools in the DFW area.. If I were to build 100 more pools, they would all be saltwater pools. In the cumulative 19 years that I have had my pools, I have never had algae, never added a single bag of pool store shock, have had anything rust, no stone has fallen apart, and have never come close to running out of FC in the middle of the summer..

The main problem with saltwater pools is the pool builder and the home owner.. The builder installs a cell that is way too small and then tells the home owner that you don't have to do anything but use the pool.. Nothing could be further from the truth.. You still must routinely test your pool water and make sure the chemicals stay in balance.. The salt cell has no brain... you are the cell's brain.. you need to test and then adjust whatever is necessary to keep your pool water balanced. If you do that, then having a saltwater pool will be the easiest type of pool to maintain.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

I personally don't care one way or the other about whether you get a saltwater pool or not.. My main goal with my post was to try and rebut the info that your pool builder gave you.. It irks me when small truths turn into huge lies, and I want to make sure both sides of the story are seen by other members that might read this post in the future..

Good luck with your pool build no matter what you decide...

Thanks.

Jim R.

 

[Prosperjl]

P,

I personally don't care one way or the other about whether you get a saltwater pool or not.. My main goal with my post was to try and rebut the info that your pool builder gave you.. It irks me when small truths turn into huge lies, and I want to make sure both sides of the story are seen by other members that might read this post in the future..

Good luck with your pool build no matter what you decide...

Thanks.

Jim R.

Jim,

Thanks for the thorough response. I appreciate the insight; this is what I was looking for. I assume the IC40 will be more than enough for my size pool; 15x30, 3.5’-4’-5’.

 

[Snikwah]

Go with the SWG.. PB here in the metroplex are resistant to them because of past issues after telling their customers SWG were set it and forget it. Get the SWG and don't look back..

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

Cells are rated by gallons... an IC40 is "technically" rated to be able to run a 40K pool, but cells are rated when running 24/7 at 100% output.. This is why we always say to make sure the cell is rated for 2 x the volume of your pool.

Your pool will be between 13K and 15K gallons, so an IC40 would be perfect.

The pool at my house is 17K and I run the IC40

I am not sure what your pool builder means when he said.. "we usually sell it with the easy touch 4 or 8, but I’ll find out the stand alone cost"... If you have a spa and pool you will need either an EasyTouch, IntelliTouch or the new IntelliCenter... No matter which system you get, make sure it comes with the built-in SWCG power supply.. All three systems come in a package that includes the Automation, two Actuators to switch between the Pool and the Spa, and an IC40 or 60 salt cell.. You DO NOT want a stand alone cell unless you are NOT getting an automation system. You do not need automation to run a salt cell, but you do need automation to run a pool and spa.. If you are getting automaton anyway, get the one with the built in SWCG power supply..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Prosperjl]

P,

Cells are rated by gallons... an IC40 is "technically" rated to be able to run a 40K pool, but cells are rated when running 24/7 at 100% output.. This is why we always say to make sure the cell is rated for 2 x the volume of your pool.

Your pool will be between 13K and 15K gallons, so an IC40 would be perfect.

The pool at my house is 17K and I run the IC40

I am not sure what your pool builder means when he said.. "we usually sell it with the easy touch 4 or 8, but I’ll find out the stand alone cost"... If you have a spa and pool you will need either an EasyTouch, IntelliTouch or the new IntelliCenter... No matter which system you get, make sure it comes with the built-in SWCG power supply.. All three systems come in a package that includes the Automation, two Actuators to switch between the Pool and the Spa, and an IC40 or 60 salt cell.. You DO NOT want a stand alone cell unless you are NOT getting an automation system. You do not need automation to run a salt cell, but you do need automation to run a pool and spa.. If you are getting automaton anyway, get the one with the built in SWCG power supply..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Im getting the intellicenter. This is great info, I will get with the PB to ensure it comes with the power supply.

 

[JRo]

My pool builder here in DFW threw in my IC 40 with the deal. He also has SWG with flagstone, which is even more likely to damage. He said just seal and keep your levels and it should be like natural tears. I have a lot of travertine, stone and leuders. I’m going to seal and maintain myself.

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

Just to be fair..

One downside to having a SWCG... In general, pump run time will need to be longer for the cell to generate the amount of chlorine your pool will need. This is a major concern if you have a large single speed pump due to the cost of electricity.. Since you are getting an IntelliFlo VS pump, the cost to run longer will just not be an issue...

For reference... I run my pump 24/7, most of the time at about 1200 RPM, for less than $20 bucks a month... I estimate that at a minimum, you will need to run your pump for about 7 hours a day, with the SWCG at 100% output, or 14 hours at 50% output.. You do not need to run 24/7, it is just something that I like to do..

Another downside you need to be aware of is that salt cells do not work when the water temp gets below about 52 degrees. During the winter, when the cell is shut off, you will need to add liquid chlorine to maintain your FC.. The good news is that it does not take much chlorine to maintain your pool during the winter.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Prosperjl]

P,

Just to be fair..

One downside to having a SWCG... In general, pump run time will need to be longer for the cell to generate the amount of chlorine your pool will need. This is a major concern if you have a large single speed pump due to the cost of electricity.. Since you are getting an IntelliFlo VS pump, the cost to run longer will just not be an issue...

For reference... I run my pump 24/7, most of the time at about 1200 RPM, for less than $20 bucks a month... I estimate that at a minimum, you will need to run your pump for about 7 hours a day, with the SWCG at 100% output, or 14 hours at 50% output.. You do not need to run 24/7, it is just something that I like to do..

Another downside you need to be aware of is that salt cells do not work when the water temp gets below about 52 degrees. During the winter, when the cell is shut off, you will need to add liquid chlorine to maintain your FC.. The good news is that it does not take much chlorine to maintain your pool during the winter.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I’m not too concerned about pump time or supplementing chlorine in the winter. I’m going with a filled travertine coping and a tumbled travertine deck. Do you think the sealing will be necessary?

 

[Jimrahbe]

P,

If the only reason you want to seal is because of the saltwater, then I'm not sure there is a need to seal..

If sealing has some other benefits, such as waterproofing in general, color, or traction, then it might make sense to seal.

IF this were my pool, and I was taking the word of some unknown guy on an internet site, I might seal just to make me feel more comfortable about my decision..

If you were ever going to seal it, the best time would be when it was brand new.. I guess it would really depend on the extra cost.

Here is a story that I have told often here at TFP...

I have a rent house where my daughter lives.. We gutted and rebuild the house and as part of that process, had the pool updated with new Flagstone coping, tile and plaster.. We used the pool that way for a couple of years before switching to saltwater. During the first two years we could see about 50% of the flagstone coping was shedding very thin layers of flagstone.. You could just look at the stone and see differences between the "good" stone and the "bad" stone.. We installed the saltwater system about 6 or 7 years ago.. In that time, the bad stones are still bad and the good stones are still good.. There is no rhyme or reason as to where the bad stones are.. It is not like all the bad ones are where people exit the pool dripping wet.. There are both good and bad stones all around the pool.

My takeaway from this is that saltwater did not cause the initial problem and that it did not make the existing problem any worse nor any better. The flagstone is not sealed and my understanding is that it would not make much difference one way or the other. The main problem is the quality of the stone.. Maybe quality is not the right word, but how the stone was formed has a lot to do with it.. It is clear that the bad stones are made up of very thin layers, while the good stones do not appear to have the same layers..

I estimate that the coping will last another 20 years before it get to the point of needing to be replaced, but I am confident that the saltwater has had no effect.

Thanks,

Jim R.