Help with equipment pad

[Mylz17]

Hi TFP!
First post, so go easy! I moved into a ‘new’ house in late April 2020 and inherited a 26k gallon inground pool. Immediately found TFP and been learning everyday.

I am pretty sure I have a filtration problem and I think it’s due to the plumbing at the pad. Can someone take a look at my setup and help recommend better way to plumb it? I know the suction side is completely incorrect with the 2x 90 bends and it should be straight. If I straighten that out, I need to move the sand filter and if I move that I need to move the heater.

if I were to redesign from scratch, remove the heater & chlorinator and bump all pad plumbing up to 2” PVC, how should I position everything? You’ll also see a capped 3 way because I already removed an ionizer anode from there. That will be gone too.

thanks for any help you can provide! Trying to not have to call a pool store because I quickly learned that the ones near me are idiots. For example; you will notice from below pics that the heater is not bonded... pool store tried to tell me that you don’t bond pool equipment. Pool is bonded when installed and equipment only needs to be grounded. OK...

They also told me CYA is only an issue when over 150...

not even going to attempt to ask them about pool pump sizing based on total dynamic head.

 

[GaryParr]

Are the heater hook-ups in the back? And is the chlorinator inlet also on the back? If so, I'd turn the heater 90 so the hookups are facing the rest of the equipment. I'd then move the filter over to the right of the pump so that the pump sits between the filter and the heater. I'd also position the filter/pump so that the pump output is in-line with the filter inlet. That way you have only one 90 from the pump to the filter, two 90s from the filter to the heater (or two 45s if you get craft), and one 90 from the heater to the back of the chlorinatior.

Also, I'm not sure how much 2" at the pad alone is really going affect things if the pipe from the pool to the pump is 1.5, but I'm sure people who know more than I will weigh in on that.

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to TFP.
Couple of points and some clarification
I see only 2 suction lines and 2 returns - are these skimmer and bottom drain or 2 skimmers?
Plumbing does not indicate you have a spa.
Do you plan to install a SWG

I see no need to upgrade to 2" pipe if your buried plumbing is 1 1/2 inch.

One idea so you do not need to move your filter and heater - on your suction line after the 2 way valve - just remove 1 elbow and turn your pump 90 degrees. You then can install a 12 inch straight prior to the pump. You will need to verify that you have long enough electrical wire from your main box to move only the pump. The exit from the pump will be the same - straight up and turn to the filter inlet.
Is that a flexible pipe from the filter to the heater? It shows to be an arc. Best if you can replace hard plumbing.
If you plan to add a SWG, then you will need to redo the plumbing from your heater to the return valves. Not sure if you want to add this or not.

Alternative 1
If you can push your pump back (towards the wood vertical wall (assume that is your electrical box) then put your filter to the right of the pump (appears to be an empty pad in picture) and keep the heater to the left. This may not be ideal but utilizes your existing pads in place.

Alternative 2
put your electrical on the empty pad to the right
push your pump back and align it to your suction lines for straight flow
Put you filter to left of pump
Put your heater to the left of the filter
Plumb your return lines to existing return valve set up - decide if you want a SWG prior after the heater
Hard pipe all plumbing

Hope this gives you some ideas to consider.

 

[Jimrahbe]

17,

Removing a few 90's and moving things around may make your pad look better, but I really doubt it will have any noticeable impact on how your pool works.. Upgrading to 2" plumbing will have almost zero impact on how your pool will function.

I suspect that you don't have any filtration issues, you have a misconception of what the filter is supposed to do..

Filters are there to capture things that fall into your pool, like bugs, leaves, etc... It is not there to remove algae from your pool water. Cloudy or green pools are caused by a chemical issues and not a filtration issues..

Why do you think you have a filtration issue?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Mylz17]

17,

Removing a few 90's and moving things around may make your pad look better, but I really doubt it will have any noticeable impact on how your pool works.. Upgrading to 2" plumbing will have almost zero impact on how your pool will function.

I suspect that you don't have any filtration issues, you have a misconception of what the filter is supposed to do..

Filters are there to capture things that fall into your pool, like bugs, leaves, etc... It is not there to remove algae from your pool water. Cloudy or green pools are caused by a chemical issues and not a filtration issues..

Why do you think you have a filtration issue?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hey Jim,
Thanks for taking the time to respond! I am worried that due to the plumbing that the water in my pool isn’t turning as frequently as it was designed to. I can tell the previous owner added a majority of the plumbing when he installed the heater.

I’m surrounded by forest on all sides and we get quite a bit of tree frogs visiting. Between the amount of trees, leaves, pollen, frogs laying tadpoles, laternflies, slugs, worms. We also swim in it a lot. I really want to ensure my pump is efficient and pushing at least 43GPM which gives me a 10 hr turnover rate. Ideally I’d like to see it at 54 GPM for an 8 hr rate. I don’t think that’s happening and filter is struggling. Yes we get cloudy water, and rule 3 of SLAM is run pump 24/7
for clear water. I can’t even get the kids in for a week until I have to SLAM again and I’m pretty sure it’s due to the turnover rate. My chemistry is great it just takes SO dang long to clear.

We have no bottom drain which I’m sure doesn’t helpThere are 2 main out jets opposite of the skimmer (1 in deep end, 1 in shallow end) and a ‘buddy seat’ which also has 2 out jets directly across from the skimmer.

I did some reading on calculating TDH and it appears it can be done with a vacuum gauge at the pump basket drain plug + pressure gauge at the impeller drain plug. However, I also read you can use pressure gauge on filter in place of the pressure gauge at impeller.

so, if I run pump at max, my filter pressure (clean) gauge reads 26. The equation I found online was 26*2.31 = ~60. I then add this to whatever the vacuum pressure is on pump intake is (multipled by 1.17and that will give me my TDH. Looking at my pump performance curve, 60TDH (which isn’t even factoring in plumbing between filter, through heater & chlorinator & returns & intake pressure) is way off my pump performance curve (I speculate it’s closer to 90) to attain 43 GPM.

Hoping that if I reduce some of the flex pipe, remove some 90s and get the hydraulics in order, that I can get it closer to what it was designed for and actually allow my pump to turn the water at a reasonable rate.

I guess I could just figure out TDH, leave everything alone, and pickup a pump that’s appropriately sized, but I could keep the one I got and make the plumbing more efficient.

thoughts? Am I way off base here?

 

[Jimrahbe]

17,

Not sure why you are hung up on the turnover myth.. It is just not true... If you have the proper chemical levels in your pool, you "almost" don't have to run your pump at all.. We have a lot of members that run their pumps for less than 3 hours a day...

In my mind, you are focusing on the wrong end of the horse..

My guess is that your CYA is high and that you are running your FC (Chlorine) level at 1 or 2 ppm.. The result will be a cloudy or green pool.

I suggest that you take a look at this.. ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

And... take a deep dive in our Pool School... Pool School - Trouble Free Pool

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Mylz17]

Hey Jim,
I just ran a full test.
My chemistry is in range and I should have sparkling clear water right now (which I will ultimately get to, it just takes forever to accomplish). If we don't swim at all this week, it will be clear by Thursday/Friday.
CYA; 60
FC: 7
CC: 0
PH: 7.4
TA; 100
CH: 250
Water Temp; 78
CSI: -0.15

My pool is 16.5' x 36' w/ a buddy seat bump out & 4 step walk-out, so I put it at 27k gallon. I have a 1.5HP Pentair Superflo VS. I believe the pump was sized correctly at 1.5 HP when the pool was first built (original failed pump is in shed and its a Hayward 1.5HP). If I were to re-calculate TDH based on the updated plumbing (which I will be able to do once vacuum gauge arrives), I'm betting that this pump performance curve is not within range of what I need. Rather than spend $ for a new pump, I'd rather optimize the pad plumbing to make the existing pump more efficient. That's why I'm looking for some recommendations. Considering I don't need or want the heater/AC (it barely seems to make a difference). With that gone I can move the components where I want them. Just would like advice on optimal setup.

I know I want pump directly inline with the intake as having bends in the intake increases turbulent flow. This requires me moving it to the left about 6". If I remove heater and spin the sand filter 180 degrees to align the multiport in/out to the right. This would result in all straight plumbing and only 3x 90's to accomplish connection to the buried inlet & outlet. I'd imagine this would drastically improve the hydraulics and reduce the amount of turbulent water allowing me to achieve a more optimal GPM.

Something like this. Thoughts?

 

[Jimrahbe]

17,

Taking the heater/AC out will definitely have an big impact on the amount of flow....

I can tell you from experience that removing a few 90's, adding 2" plumbing and moving your equipment will not make enough difference that you will be able to notice.

That said, it is your pool and you should do what you want.. Once you are done let us know how it effects your water clarity..

Thanks,

Jim R.