Help! Pool measurements are short on four walls

jsradcliffe

Active member
Apr 3, 2019
25
Charleston
Hi. I have a question. I am currently having an inground concrete pool installed. For simplicity sake, the pool is 78' Linear feet. However, when I measured the walls with my laser measuring device I discovered that the 26' ft wall is actually 25'.10", 13' ft wall is 12'.10", 20' ft wall is 19'.10" and 6' ft wall is 5'.10"; however, the 4' ft wall is correct at 4' ft and the 9' ft wall is correct at 9' ft. My question is, why would this be? Is this normal? I feel like shorted pool area, and should this be discussed with the pool installer? Should I request a credit? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
 

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Jimrahbe

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Jul 7, 2014
11,313
Bedford, TX
J,

The time to discuss this with the pool builder is now!!! Not sure it is that big a deal but now is the time to find out..

Do it today!!!

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

bmoreswim

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Jul 16, 2012
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Central MD
Why would this be? Because pool building is not that exact unfortunately. At least in most cases.

Although you feel correctly that you should get the size pool you contracted for, those measurements are extremely close to your contract. I see no issue. The only concern I would have is if you were getting an autocover and the pool was out of square. I don't know what someone in the industry would consider within spec, but that has to be within.
 
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jsradcliffe

Active member
Apr 3, 2019
25
Charleston
Why would this be? Because pool building is not that exact unfortunately. At least in most cases.

Although you feel correctly that you should get the size pool you contracted for, those measurements are extremely close to your contract. I see no issue. The only concern I would have is if you were getting an autocover and the pool was out of square. I don't know what someone in the industry would consider within spec, but that has to be within.

Thank you for your reply. I do appreciate it. You're right, it's pretty darn close and we won't notice the small difference. I was just concerned because three of the measurements are correct and the four biggest measurements are not. We just assumed when contracting for a pool a particular size it would be that size when the product is finished.
 

jsradcliffe

Active member
Apr 3, 2019
25
Charleston
Now, for the kicker, the pool goes from 13 x 27 (323sf) to 13 x 26 (314) with no credit given, but before we had a chance to ask about the credit for difference in size, the PB comes back and says we'll have to add retaining wall at the front of the pool for a cost of $7,000. When my wife did ask, the PB says, I didn't do a credit, but we can do the retaining wall up front for $3,500. We are still requesting a detailed credit and have yet to get it.

Pool as of today
 

nhamp07

Bronze Supporter
Jul 24, 2018
98
New Braunfels, TX
Sounds like your PB is being reasonable by marking down the wall 50%. you are going to need that wall to prevent mud and dirt draining down the slope into your pool.
 

bmoreswim

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@jsradcliffe You should put in a link to your other thread. That background will be very helpful for people reading here. I didn't connect the two until your last post.
 

PoolGate

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Jun 7, 2017
2,793
Damascus, MD
Depending on how big the retaining wall, $3500 could be a great deal. Around here that amount will get you 10 feet by maybe 3 feet high.
 

Poolecw

Member
Apr 5, 2019
9
NW Ga
I didnt do the math for all of the walls, but your 26' wall is off by 0.65%. This is minor Am I missing something?
 

jsradcliffe

Active member
Apr 3, 2019
25
Charleston
Depending on how big the retaining wall, $3500 could be a great deal. Around here that amount will get you 10 feet by maybe 3 feet high.
Well, now I know why it was $3500. They built the wall incorrectly. They put the drainage pipe under the bricks and not behind them. One side of the wall started sinking slightly along with the travertine that was near it. Had two people look at it and both said it was done incorrectly and will need to be removed and rebuilt. They didn't even put drainage under two sections of the wall or gravel. Not sure why people do things like this. Unbelievable.
 

jimmythegreek

Bronze Supporter
Aug 10, 2017
655
Morris Cnty NJ
you cant put drainage underneath the actual wall, that is a no no. technically the drainage piping behind most segmented retaining walls is just to make inspectors/engineers happy. If proper clean gravel is used and the proper placement and amount, the water behind the wall leeches out between the blocks. there are times with certain soils that a toe drain is used, where the piping is actually needed and placed at the bottom of the crushed gravel footing base, or leveled even with the lowest block, in that situation it is there with purpose. sounds like they had inexperienced guys throw the wall up quick and cheap, and in the end it costs even more to take that down and start over.
 

jsradcliffe

Active member
Apr 3, 2019
25
Charleston
you cant put drainage underneath the actual wall, that is a no no. technically the drainage piping behind most segmented retaining walls is just to make inspectors/engineers happy. If proper clean gravel is used and the proper placement and amount, the water behind the wall leeches out between the blocks. there are times with certain soils that a toe drain is used, where the piping is actually needed and placed at the bottom of the crushed gravel footing base, or leveled even with the lowest block, in that situation it is there with purpose. sounds like they had inexperienced guys throw the wall up quick and cheap, and in the end it costs even more to take that down and start over.
Thank you, Jimmy. I did not know that about a toe drain. The professionals I called out to verify both said they did not use near enough gravel, maybe 2inches and it was mixed in with dirt, should be cleaner than what they saw. Also, where the drainage pipe comes out of the wall, the travertine is now sinking or slanting downward into the wall. It's pretty disappointing to say the least.
 

jimmythegreek

Bronze Supporter
Aug 10, 2017
655
Morris Cnty NJ
BTW when I said toe drain it still isnt at the bottom of the crushed gravel under the wall, its at the rear of the gravel base about a foot back behind the wall. you never have piping carrying the load of the wall above it. just to clarify because it sounds like these jokers put the piping right under the wall
 

jsradcliffe

Active member
Apr 3, 2019
25
Charleston
Here are some pics of the wall. I dug under the wall and the bricks are sitting on the dirt on two sections of the wall and there is about 1" of gravel behind the long wall. Pool company is trying to tell us that the pipe should be under the bricks. Tell me what you think, please. Photos of wall
 

bmoreswim

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Jul 16, 2012
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Our retaining wall is built correctly. It has 1' of drainage rock behind the wall up to within a few inches of the top of the wall. All of the dirt is separated from the drainage rock (behind it and above it) with landscape fabric to prevent dirt from migrating into the rock and filling up the space between the rocks. The perforated pipe wrapped in a soft sock material should be in that drainage rock behind the wall say a few inches, at about the same level as the lowest layer of block (which should be well below grade). And the base layer of block in your case, should be on a about 6" of gravel or smaller aggregate.

Google any wall installation video that discusses drainage and it will discuss something similar to my description above. Not one will (or should) show the process used by your PB. He's full of baloney on their approach being correct.
 

jsradcliffe

Active member
Apr 3, 2019
25
Charleston
Our retaining wall is built correctly. It has 1' of drainage rock behind the wall up to within a few inches of the top of the wall. All of the dirt is separated from the drainage rock (behind it and above it) with landscape fabric to prevent dirt from migrating into the rock and filling up the space between the rocks. The perforated pipe wrapped in a soft sock material should be in that drainage rock behind the wall say a few inches, at about the same level as the lowest layer of block (which should be well below grade). And the base layer of block in your case, should be on a about 6" of gravel or smaller aggregate.

Google any wall installation video that discusses drainage and it will discuss something similar to my description above. Not one will (or should) show the process used by your PB. He's full of baloney on their approach being correct.
Thank you for your description. That's definitely not what we have. I am still waiting for the PB to come out. I do not believe he has even been out since the wall has been built.
 

jimmythegreek

Bronze Supporter
Aug 10, 2017
655
Morris Cnty NJ
wow pictures are worth 1000 words. that is not a retaining wall. those are classified as garden blocks. they are not meant to hold anything back other than mulch in a planting bed. they will not hold back the dirt for long no matter how they are installed. dont know how long or high that wall is but they are about a dollar and change a piece so they prob made good money even at 3500 bucks. a retaining wall has some type of pinning system to pin each course to the bottom course. the cheaper blocks have a lip that catches the one below, and most of them are poor quality and the lips break off over time. I wouldnt accept that install, and especially that type of block, even for free. it would cost money to remove it and install a proper wall instead of doing it right from the start. All the information you can ever want is on ICPI website and versalok has great tutorials and videos on their site,
 
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