Help newbie with pool

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Be aware his contract states you are to bring utilities to the pad at your expense. This could add thousands to the price depending on location. I would ditch the main drains especially in a shallow pool. Take that $ and put towards plumbing home runs for skimmers/returns. I would also try to make pool wider. No matter how long a pool a narrow pool feels smaller. 15ft is much better if possible and shorten up the length to compensate
 
Thanks for the reply. I don't think I can have pool wider than 13' as don't have wider space in backyard. I have 23" wide space between patio on one side and bedroom on the other side and I am trying to fit pool in between. I am not sure about how long of a pool to have. PB told me cost of pool is same till 450 square feet. So 450 divided by 13' = 34'. I can have pool as long as 34' for same price with width of 13'.
 
If you have 23ft and have a patio on one side 15' would still leave 8ft instead of 10. I will tell u from experience theres a huge difference in a skinny pool they just feel small especially when in the pool. Even 14ft is decent
 
So far the way it is working with PB, they come with a plan for pool and spa with an estimate as per what they typically do for all homes. In next meeting, I will bring up changes suggested by the forum members.

Appreciate all the feedback with BID # 1. Will tell PB # 1 when I meet.

In the mean time, I have BID # 2 and hopefully BID # 3 coming by next week.

Here's bid from PB # 2. Haven't had a personal meeting yet. Please suggest changes so when I meet with PB #2, I can communicate it to him.

Pool Specifications:
  • Max Length: 30’
  • Max Width: 12’
  • Depths: 3.5’-4.5’
  • Pool Perimeter: 84’
  • Pool Water Surface Area: 307’
  • 8,116 gallons
    Spa Specifications:
  • Max Length: 7’
  • Max Width: 5’-7”
  • Depths: 3.5’
  • Spa Perimeter: 25’
  • Spa Area: 38’
  • 589 gallons
CUSTOM POOL & SPA CONSTRUCTION ESTIMATE
Pre-Excavation:
  • Construction Drawings
  • Dallas Permit
  • Take down fence for access
    Excavation:
  • 1.5hr. pre-grade for pool and spa
  • Mini - Excavator
  • Alley access for Dump trucks
  • Does not include any utility or irrigation re-routes
    Pool & Spa Plumbing
  • 2- skimmer 2.5” sch40 pvc
  • Dual main drains 2.5” sch 40 pvc
  • 4- pool return jets 1.5” sch 40 pvc
  • 1- spa spillway line
  • Bubblers at sunledges
  • 6- Hydrotherapy spa return jets
  • Dual spa main drains 2.5” sch 40 pvc
  • Gas line from meter to heater included
    Steel Reinforcement:
  • 4- 1⁄2” steel bars run continuously through pool beam
  • 3/8” steel bars 8”o.c. walls and floor
  • Alternate bars at 6” o.c. floor transition
Gunite Shell:
  • 8” minimum floor and wall thickness.
  • 12” minimum Bond Beam thickness
    Electrical:
  • Up to 200’ conduit and wire
  • Run wire over 200’ add 2.30/ft.
  • 2- circuit breakers
  • Wire- Pool pump
  • Wire Pool Light
  • Wire Spa Light
  • Wire- Pool & Spa Computer controller
    Coping,Tile,Masonry, & Pool Deck :
• •••
Pool- 12”wide – Gray Limestone
Pool & Spa Waterline Tile- 6x6 standard
51 ft 4” drainage line , 25 ft 2” pool overflow drainage line539 sqft. Natural Salt finish Concrete
Pool & Spa Equipment:
  • Astral QL540 Cartridge Filter
  • Jandy Variable Speed 2.67HP pool pump
  • Maytronics Active 20 robotic pool cleaner
  • Clear Blue Ionizer – mineral pool water system
  • Pool Defender- Zinc Sacrificial Anode/water bond
  • Jandy Jxi 400,000btu Natural gas heater
  • Jandy Hydrocool LED nicheless lights (4)
  • Jandy iAqualink wireless pool computer(pc,tablet, or smartphone controlled)
  • Jandy 1.5hp Air Blower for Spa
  • Control valves
    Pool & Spa Plaster finish:
  • Includes all pool fittings, return jets, and drain grates.
  • White Plaster
    Pool Start-up & Orientation:
    • Pool controller programming and orientation meeting
    • Pole, brush, skimmer net, leaf rake, & test kit
    • Start-up chemicals included
    • 3- months free pool service +1 Free Filter clean service
PROJECT TOTAL ___________$61,932.38

Due at signing 5% : 3,096.62
Excavation 30% : 18,579.71
Gunite 30% : 18,579.71
Tile/Electric 30% : 18,579.71
Prior to Plaster 5% : 3,096.62
 
jimmythegreek said:
I would ditch the main drains especially in a shallow pool. Take that $ and put towards plumbing home runs for skimmers/returns.
Click to expand...
A "second" to my "no need for drains" suggestion. You really don't need them. And because your pool will have "foot traffic" over its entire floor, you are going to be stepping on them.

By "home runs," jimmythegreek is advising about your pool's plumbing schematic. Pumps draw water out of your pool via the skimmers, and put it back though the returns. Typically, the skimmers are on a single line, and the returns are all on another single line. So if the builder doesn't do a near-impossible job of plumbing to balance everything out, you'll likely end up with one skimmer drawing more than the other, and your returns all shooting water out at different rates. Which may or may not be conducive to the good circulation a pool needs. Circulation can effect the temperature in your pool (hot and cold spots), how well the skimmer(s) skim(s), as well as the condition and longevity of your plaster surface (dead spots collect dirt, debris and sometimes algae).

By using a "home run" scheme, each skimmer, and each return has its own dedicated line running back to the equipment pad, each with its own control valve. With that setup, you can dial in how much water each fixture will draw/return, and so be able to really control how your water circulates. I definitely wish I had home runs. I only have one skimmer, but I'd love to be able to control my returns individually, to improve my pool's circulation.

jimmythegreek is suggesting the cost of the pipes required for drains could be better spent on the extra pipes you'd need to plumb the other fixtures individually...

VERY IMPORTANT: Also, I didn't do the math, but is that payment schedule of #2 such that you end up giving all money owed to the contractor before the plaster goes on? Absolutely DO NOT do that, or sign a contract that stipulates that. With the exception of a modest down payment (5% is fair), you do not pay a contractor for anything until AFTER it is complete and passes inspection. And you definitely don't pay a contractor 100% until the job is 100% finished and you are 100% satisfied. That goes for any contractor on any construction job, big or small, certainly for a pool, where so many things can go wrong. You have to have a significant portion of the total held back until after completion, or else what is your leverage if something goes wrong, or the pool isn't build to spec, doesn't pass final inspection, or you just don't like the quality level? If you pay him everything, he's gone... If a contractor balks at that, and claims "Well, I need that money to buy the materials"... RUN! Big red flag. Yes, pool materials are expensive, but if a contractor isn't solvent enough to front the cost of materials, then where's he going to be if things go astray? If he's operating his business with no cash reserves, robbing Peter to pay Paul... is that who you want working for you?
 
Before you sign, you need to check with your state about the contractor's license. In good standing? Any complaints? Etc. If your state requires a contractor be bonded, check on his bond. He should be carrying liability insurance, too, to cover anything that goes haywire. That's in addition to the bond insurance. I checked on the first two for my contractor, but didn't think about the third. When he destroyed my plaster, he had no insurance to cover that, and my home-owner's policy doesn't cover things that are destroyed by a contractor (the theory being that the contractor's insurance should cover that, unless, of course, he doesn't have any!!). A very good contract would stipulate all that, but in my experience, most contractors don't furnish even a bad contract, let alone a proper one...
 
Thanks to the forum members for the replies and invaluable suggestions.

I have received the 3rd bid from PB.

I am posting previous 2 Bids and 3rd bid now. I will take back the suggestion and changes from forum members as I meet PBs to go over the bids.
 
Bid # 1

GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS

SWIMMING POOL:

Pool Type: Shallow Pool, Spa and Water Features

Overall Size: 13’ x 48.5’

Pool Surface Area: 450 s.f. Square Feet

Pool Perimeter: 123 Lineal Feet

Pool Depth: 3.5’ to 5’ to 4’

Average Depth: 4.2’

Pool Capacity: 12,000 Gallons

Piers: 8 Helicals –see options - Will cost extra

SPA:

Spa size: 7’ x 7’ inside

Spa Area: 49 Square Feet

Spa Perimeter: 28 Lineal Feet

Spa Depth: 3.5 Feet

Spa Elevation: 12” raised from pool

Spa Capacity: 500 Gallons

MATERIAL SELECTIONS:

Pool Coping: Travertine – 18” wide

Ceramic Tile: 6” at pool perimeter – standard tile at pool

1” glass tile at spa wall

Decking Area: 300 s.f. Rpck Salt Colored Concrete

Drainage Line: 4” underground as needed

Interior Finish: Colored quartz

EQUIPMENT:

Circulation Pump: Pentair Intelliflow VS + SVRS

Filter: Diatomaceous Earth 60 s.f. w/ multiport valve

Sanitizer: In-Line Chlorinator and Salt System

Automatic Cleaner: Pentair Racer w/ pump

Control Valves: 2” x 2.5” Never Lube

Pool Light: 2- Globrite LED Color

Spa Light: 1- Globrite LED Color

Gas Heater: 400K BTU Electronic Ignition

Air Blower: 1.5 hp Silencer

W/F Pump: 1.5 hp Whisperflo

Laminars: 3- Color Laminars

Maintenance: Telescopic Pole, Brush, Net and Test Kit



ELECTRICAL:

Wiring: All proposed equipment

Bonding/Grounding: #8 bare copper wire

GFCI: At equipment for pool lights

Controls: Easytouch electronic controller w/ screen logic

Freeze Protection: On all circulation pumps

PLUMBING:

Suction Outlets: Skimmers- 2” line

Dual Main Drains – 2” line

Return Inlets: 4 wall returns

Backwash Line: To grade – 2”
Fill Line: ¾” automatic

Overflow Line: 2” gravity to lower end of yard

Spa Drains: Channel Drain – 2.5” line

Spa Jets: 6 at bench – 2” line

Spa Overflow: 2” line

W/F lines: 2” suction, 1.5” returns

Gas Line: From Meter to Heater



SPECIAL NOTES:

The following items are not included as part of this contract:

  • Electric, water and gas at equipment pad by owner
  • Fencing and Safety as per city code
  • Landscaping and Irrigation

GUARANTEES:

5 YEAR ON STRUCTURE: PB warrants that the pool structure will remain structurally sound for a period of five (5) years from the date of installation (plaster) The term structurally sound means that the swimming pool is capable of retaining water, and in the event of failure to do so within the stated period, PB will repair the structure so that it will retain water, without charge to the owner, upon written notification of such defect.

THREE YEAR ON EQUIPMENT:Filter, pump, electronic controller and heater carry a 3-year warranty from the manufacturer.

ONE YEAR ON ALL OTHERS: All other features including coping, tile, plaster, plumbing lines, electrical, and accessories, are guaranteed against defects in workmanship and materials for twelve (12) months.

LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS: The above-mentioned warranties are to insure proper installation, workmanship and function of the swimming pool. In order to keep this warranty in effect, owner must continue routine pool operations and maintenance in accordance with the Pool Owner’s Manuals and Manufacturer’s Instructions. BP is not liable for any defects or damage caused by improper pool maintenance, negligence or misuse.


PRICE: PRICE BREAKDOWN:

Permits and Plans $ 1,000.00
Pool Structure & Equipment $ 54,000.00
Spa Structure and Equipment $ 11,000.00
Color Laminars and Equipment $ 4,000.00
Electronic Controller $ 2,500.00
Pool Decking and Drainage $ 4,500.00
Plaster care $ 500.00
Total Value of Improvements $ 77,500.00

Options: Plaster Upgrade - Pebble $ 2,000.00 _____
Helical Piers(8 recommended) $ 4,000.00 _____
 

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Bid # 2

Pool Specifications:
  • Max Length: 30’
  • Max Width: 12’
  • Depths: 3.5’-4.5’
  • Pool Perimeter: 84’
  • Pool Water Surface Area: 307’
  • 8,116 gallons
    Spa Specifications:
  • Max Length: 7’
  • Max Width: 5’-7”
  • Depths: 3.5’
  • Spa Perimeter: 25’
  • Spa Area: 38’
  • 589 gallons
CUSTOM POOL & SPA CONSTRUCTION ESTIMATE
Pre-Excavation:
  • Construction Drawings
  • Dallas Permit
  • Take down fence for access
    Excavation:
  • 1.5hr. pre-grade for pool and spa
  • Mini - Excavator
  • Alley access for Dump trucks
  • Does not include any utility or irrigation re-routes
    Pool & Spa Plumbing
  • 2- skimmer 2.5” sch40 pvc
  • Dual main drains 2.5” sch 40 pvc
  • 4- pool return jets 1.5” sch 40 pvc
  • 1- spa spillway line
  • Bubblers at sunledges
  • 6- Hydrotherapy spa return jets
  • Dual spa main drains 2.5” sch 40 pvc
  • Gas line from meter to heater included
    Steel Reinforcement:
  • 4- 1⁄2” steel bars run continuously through pool beam
  • 3/8” steel bars 8”o.c. walls and floor
  • Alternate bars at 6” o.c. floor transition
Gunite Shell:
  • 8” minimum floor and wall thickness.
  • 12” minimum Bond Beam thickness
    Electrical:
  • Up to 200’ conduit and wire
  • Run wire over 200’ add 2.30/ft.
  • 2- circuit breakers
  • Wire- Pool pump
  • Wire Pool Light
  • Wire Spa Light
  • Wire- Pool & Spa Computer controller
    Coping,Tile,Masonry, & Pool Deck :
• •••
Pool- 12”wide – Gray Limestone
Pool & Spa Waterline Tile- 6x6 standard
51 ft 4” drainage line , 25 ft 2” pool overflow drainage line539 sqft. Natural Salt finish Concrete
Pool & Spa Equipment:
  • Astral QL540 Cartridge Filter
  • Jandy Variable Speed 2.67HP pool pump
  • Maytronics Active 20 robotic pool cleaner
  • Clear Blue Ionizer – mineral pool water system
  • Pool Defender- Zinc Sacrificial Anode/water bond
  • Jandy Jxi 400,000btu Natural gas heater
  • Jandy Hydrocool LED nicheless lights (4)
  • Jandy iAqualink wireless pool computer(pc,tablet, or smartphone controlled)
  • Jandy 1.5hp Air Blower for Spa
  • Control valves
    Pool & Spa Plaster finish:
  • Includes all pool fittings, return jets, and drain grates.
  • White Plaster
    Pool Start-up & Orientation:
    • Pool controller programming and orientation meeting
    • Pole, brush, skimmer net, leaf rake, & test kit
    • Start-up chemicals included
    • 3- months free pool service +1 Free Filter clean service
PROJECT TOTAL ___________$61,932.38

Due at signing 5% : 3,096.62
Excavation 30% : 18,579.71
Gunite 30% : 18,579.71
Tile/Electric 30% : 18,579.71
Prior to Plaster 5% : 3,096.62
 
Bid # 3

Pool; Approximately $58,000
  • 32’-5” x 12’-0”, 88’ perimeter, 389 sqft, 10,050 gallons
  • Bobcat Shuttle, track hoe excavation and pre-grading of site
  • (3) LED lights in pool
  • Nature 2, Fusion, UV, Chlorine Sanitation System (we can change to Salt system if desired, additional cost required)
  • iAqualink Control for Pool (can be run through phone, tablet, computer, etc)
  • In-Floor Cleaning for Pool/Spa
  • Standard tile allowance, travertine 3cm eased edge coping, Pebble Sheen plaster interior finish

  • Due to soil conditions, excavation of 5’-6’ required for entire structure of pool along with filling area beneath sunbench, steps and benches with gravel.
Spa; Approximately $14,000
  • 12’-0” x 5’-0”, 34’ perimeter, 60 sqft, 12,050 gallons
  • (1) LED lights in spa
  • 400,000 BTU gas heater (dual thermostat allows you to also heat pool if desired)
  • (6) therapy jets in the spa
Synthetic Grass; $8,500
  • Synthetic grass (approximately 705 sqft) installed in area shown on plan; between house and pool
  • (this can be done by landscaper if preferred)

  • Main items not included; landscaping, concrete or paver decking at this time

Total Rough Estimate Project Cost; $80,500
 
For Bid # 3, see additional information.

  • Concrete/paver decking; we can also do this as well with either a salt finish concrete or a travertine paver being my first two recommendations.
    • Salt finish concrete; approximately 400 sqft would be an additional$5,300
      • This includes the decking, mastic and drainage
      • If we do the concrete in large block outs then it would be slightly more to cover the forming cost of each block out
    • Travertine pavers; approximately 400 sqft would be an additional $6,900
      • This includes the pavers, gravel base beneath and drainage
  • Salt/Chlorine; right now this is proposed with our most used, recommended sanitation system that is chlorine based but also includes Ozone, Nature II Mineral system and UV system that is reducing chlorine usage by 60-75% and will have no deterioration to the stone coping around the pool and other components
    • If we change to a salt system it would require some different components along with sealing the coping around the pool and would be approximately$2,000 more.
 
swimmerpool said:
Thanks for previous replies. Please post what specifically needs to be changed by what for each bid so I can take it back to PB. This has been a great forum.
Click to expand...
If you feel you're getting good value from your experience here at TFP, please consider becoming a member. That's how these guys keep the lights on, they don't advertise, and the advice you're seeking all comes from volunteers. Your membership dollars helps with what it costs to build and maintain and publish this website and forum. Getting evaluations and edits for three pool bids is kinda cool, right?
 
Never use a SVRS type pump. Nothing but problems and unnecessary. If using Pentair, get the 011018 or 011028.

Be ware of Jandy equipment. They will not deal with a homeowner DIY repair, etc in the future. You will always need to go through a dealer/agent. Pentair and Hayward are not as much trouble with that. If Pentair equipment, use the Intellicenter for automation. New generation. Do not use old tech EasyTouch.

Use a SWCG that is rated for at least 2X your pool volume. No need for UV, mineral, Ozone, etc etc. No need for an inline chlorinator with a SWCG. Use a floating dispenser when you very rarely use a trichlor puck.

I have no comments on construction, aesthetics, etc. Hopefully some other members can guide you on that.
 
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I have another quote from PB # 4:

Please do advise - what to change, what to keep, pricing etc. Which PB to choose and what changes to request. Thanks.

Pool Specifications:
Size: 28'6" x 13'
Pool Area/Per: 370/83
Volume: 12594 gal
Spa Size: 8' x 6'
Spa Area/Per 48/28
Turnover: 4 hours
Depth: 3.5 x x 5
Pool/Spa Area/Per 426/97

Equipment Specifications:
Pump: Pentair Intelliflo VSF
Heater: Master Temp 400K Btu Lo Nox (Natural Gas)
Pump: N/A
Sanitizer: Nature2 Fusion System
Filter: Clean & Clear Plus 420 Cartridge
Cleaner: Pentair Racer LS Pool Cleaner
Computer: Intellicenter i5PS with SCG
Tools: Net, Pole, Brush, Thermometer, Test Kit
Controls: None
Diving: None
Slide: None
Pool Light (2) Amerilight 500W White (100')

Stone Speicifications:
Coping: 1 1/4" Travertine
Spa Cap: 1 1/4" Travertine
Veneer: TBD

Decking Specifications:
Area: 442
Material1: Colored Concrete or Salt Finish (no color) or equivalent
Turndown: as needed
Deck Drains: as needed

Interior Finish Specifications:
Pool Interior: Quartzscape Level 1 Color
Color: Level 1
Waterline Tile: Standard selection
Spa Waterline Tile: Standard selection


Yard Repair:
Sod replacement: No pallets
Backfill and grading: up to 1 load of select fill with rough construction grade 3' to 5' out

Warranties:
Lifetime structural shell warranty: 1 years workmanship warranty
3 year warranty on all pool Equipment: 1 to 5 year warranty on interior pool finish
Planter Drains: as needed
Spa Light: Spabright 100W White (50')

Construction Specification Highlights:
Excavation: Homeowner presence is recommended. Pregrade of entire pool/patio area. Walls and floors hand
trimmed for specific dimensions. All dirt removed from the site.
Steel: All rebar in pool/spa to be 1/2", #4 rebar placed 10" O. C. Alternates placed every 5" in high
stress areas. Beam of pool to contain 4 bars of 1/2", #4 rebar.
Gunite: Material mixed on-site for maximum strength. A 12" x 12" box beam, 8" thick walls, 10" floors,
and 8" to 12" coves in corners.
Pool Plumbing: All plumbing lines and fitting are schedule 40 rigid PVC. Skimmers and main drains
plumbed individually with 2 1/2" suction lines on all drains.
Spa Plumbing: Main drains plumbed with 2 1/2" schedule 40 PVC suction lines. Return lines to jets are 2" PVC
to maximize pressure. There is a 2" air line for maximum spa action. Bubbler fountain in spa floor is standard equipment.
Supervision: On site supervision of all phases of construction by the owner to insure quality control and
efficient scheduling.
Startup: All equipment prepared and checked for proper operation. On-site "Pool School" by a pool
maintenance professional. Initial pool chemicals added, cleaner and pool maintenance tools delivered.

Potential Additional Work Not Included:
Utility re-routes for gas, sewer, electric, etc. (If necessary)
Rock incurred during excavation
Additional city code requirements to fence. City codes changes during the build

Note:
All city code requirements for windows, doors, fencing, gates, utility re-routes, etc are the homeowner's responsibility and are not included in the pool pricing unless otherwise noted. Excavation rock charges are $300.00 per hour plus equipment rental, if needed. Digging or trenching of plumbing lines in rock area are subject to additional charges.

Project sub-totals:
Pool/Spa/Patio $70,540.00
Referral discount: $3000.00
Final project cost: $ 67,540.00

Optional Upgrades Available
Interior Finish:
Pebble Fina Quartz (Standard Colors) Included
Pebble Sheen (Standard Colors) $1245.00

Decking Materials:
Textured Concrete, 1 color, NO seal Included
Textured Concrete, 2 color, sealed $442.00
Belgard pavers, Level 1 (Holland or Cambridge Cobble) $884.00
Belgard pavers, Level 4 (Lafitt Rustic/Grana or Arbel) $884.00
Stamped Concrete, 2 colors with highlights, sealed $1,326.00
Belgard pavers, Level 2 (Urbana Stone or Catalina) $1,105.00
Belgard pavers, Level 3 (Dublin Cobble or Bergerac) $1,326.00
Travertine Pavers $1,768.00

Equipment:
Salt System Included
DEL Ozone System $1,150.00
Color Changing LED lights (2 in pool and 1 in spa) $1,250.00
Additional LED light $375.00
 

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