Help newbie with pool

[Jimrahbe]

sp,

You do not want or need the following:

Nature 2 system adds metals to your pool water.

Ozone system... Just useless..

I would dump the Pentair Racer LS Pool Cleaner and buy your own robot..

The new IntelliCenter with Saltwater system is perfect...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[swimmerpool]

I merged the two threads - TFP Mod

Hi

I would appreciate recommendations regarding which PB quote to choose or what changes to make in any of these? I have 4 quotes. Please suggest changes or what should I ask them to build based on forums recommendations - pump, drains etc like building from scratch. Thanks for your time and input.

PB # 1

Pool Specifications:
Size: 28'6" x 13'
Pool Area/Per: 370/83
Volume: 12594 gal
Spa Size: 8' x 6'
Spa Area/Per 48/28
Turnover: 4 hours
Depth: 3.5 x x 5
Pool/Spa Area/Per 426/97

Equipment Specifications:
Pump: Pentair Intelliflo VSF
Heater: Master Temp 400K Btu Lo Nox (Natural Gas)
Pump: N/A
Sanitizer: Nature2 Fusion System
Filter: Clean & Clear Plus 420 Cartridge
Cleaner: Pentair Racer LS Pool Cleaner
Computer: Intellicenter i5PS with SCG
Tools: Net, Pole, Brush, Thermometer, Test Kit
Controls: None
Diving: None
Slide: None
Pool Light (2) Amerilight 500W White (100')

Stone Speicifications:
Coping: 1 1/4" Travertine
Spa Cap: 1 1/4" Travertine
Veneer: TBD

Decking Specifications:
Area: 442
Material1: Colored Concrete or Salt Finish (no color) or equivalent
Turndown: as needed
Deck Drains: as needed

Interior Finish Specifications:
Pool Interior: Quartzscape Level 1 Color
Color: Level 1
Waterline Tile: Standard selection
Spa Waterline Tile: Standard selection


Yard Repair:
Sod replacement: No pallets
Backfill and grading: up to 1 load of select fill with rough construction grade 3' to 5' out

Warranties:
Lifetime structural shell warranty: 1 years workmanship warranty
3 year warranty on all pool Equipment: 1 to 5 year warranty on interior pool finish
Planter Drains: as needed
Spa Light: Spabright 100W White (50')

Construction Specification Highlights:
Excavation: Homeowner presence is recommended. Pregrade of entire pool/patio area. Walls and floors hand
trimmed for specific dimensions. All dirt removed from the site.
Steel: All rebar in pool/spa to be 1/2", #4 rebar placed 10" O. C. Alternates placed every 5" in high
stress areas. Beam of pool to contain 4 bars of 1/2", #4 rebar.
Gunite: Material mixed on-site for maximum strength. A 12" x 12" box beam, 8" thick walls, 10" floors,
and 8" to 12" coves in corners.
Pool Plumbing: All plumbing lines and fitting are schedule 40 rigid PVC. Skimmers and main drains
plumbed individually with 2 1/2" suction lines on all drains.
Spa Plumbing: Main drains plumbed with 2 1/2" schedule 40 PVC suction lines. Return lines to jets are 2" PVC
to maximize pressure. There is a 2" air line for maximum spa action. Bubbler fountain in spa floor is standard equipment.
Supervision: On site supervision of all phases of construction by the owner to insure quality control and
efficient scheduling.
Startup: All equipment prepared and checked for proper operation. On-site "Pool School" by a pool
maintenance professional. Initial pool chemicals added, cleaner and pool maintenance tools delivered.

Potential Additional Work Not Included:
Utility re-routes for gas, sewer, electric, etc. (If necessary)
Rock incurred during excavation
Additional city code requirements to fence. City codes changes during the build

Note:
All city code requirements for windows, doors, fencing, gates, utility re-routes, etc are the homeowner's responsibility and are not included in the pool pricing unless otherwise noted. Excavation rock charges are $300.00 per hour plus equipment rental, if needed. Digging or trenching of plumbing lines in rock area are subject to additional charges.

Project sub-totals:
Pool/Spa/Patio $70,540.00
Referral discount: $3000.00
Final project cost: $ 67,540.00

Optional Upgrades Available
Interior Finish:
Pebble Fina Quartz (Standard Colors) Included
Pebble Sheen (Standard Colors) $1245.00

Decking Materials:
Textured Concrete, 1 color, NO seal Included
Textured Concrete, 2 color, sealed $442.00
Belgard pavers, Level 1 (Holland or Cambridge Cobble) $884.00
Belgard pavers, Level 4 (Lafitt Rustic/Grana or Arbel) $884.00
Stamped Concrete, 2 colors with highlights, sealed $1,326.00
Belgard pavers, Level 2 (Urbana Stone or Catalina) $1,105.00
Belgard pavers, Level 3 (Dublin Cobble or Bergerac) $1,326.00
Travertine Pavers $1,768.00

Equipment:
Salt System Included
DEL Ozone System $1,150.00
Color Changing LED lights (2 in pool and 1 in spa) $1,250.00
Additional LED light $375.00

 

[swimmerpool]

PB # 2

GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS

SWIMMING POOL:

Pool Type: Shallow Pool, Spa and Water Features

Overall Size: 13’ x 48.5’

Pool Surface Area: 450 s.f. Square Feet

Pool Perimeter: 123 Lineal Feet

Pool Depth: 3.5’ to 5’ to 4’

Average Depth: 4.2’

Pool Capacity: 12,000 Gallons

Piers: 8 Helicals –see options - Will cost extra

SPA:

Spa size: 7’ x 7’ inside

Spa Area: 49 Square Feet

Spa Perimeter: 28 Lineal Feet

Spa Depth: 3.5 Feet

Spa Elevation: 12” raised from pool

Spa Capacity: 500 Gallons

MATERIAL SELECTIONS:

Pool Coping: Travertine – 18” wide

Ceramic Tile: 6” at pool perimeter – standard tile at pool

1” glass tile at spa wall

Decking Area: 300 s.f. Rpck Salt Colored Concrete

Drainage Line: 4” underground as needed

Interior Finish: Colored quartz

EQUIPMENT:

Circulation Pump: Pentair Intelliflow VS + SVRS

Filter: Diatomaceous Earth 60 s.f. w/ multiport valve

Sanitizer: In-Line Chlorinator and Salt System

Automatic Cleaner: Pentair Racer w/ pump

Control Valves: 2” x 2.5” Never Lube

Pool Light: 2- Globrite LED Color

Spa Light: 1- Globrite LED Color

Gas Heater: 400K BTU Electronic Ignition

Air Blower: 1.5 hp Silencer

W/F Pump: 1.5 hp Whisperflo

Laminars: 3- Color Laminars

Maintenance: Telescopic Pole, Brush, Net and Test Kit



ELECTRICAL:

Wiring: All proposed equipment

Bonding/Grounding: #8 bare copper wire

GFCI: At equipment for pool lights

Controls: Easytouch electronic controller w/ screen logic

Freeze Protection: On all circulation pumps

PLUMBING:

Suction Outlets: Skimmers- 2” line

Dual Main Drains – 2” line

Return Inlets: 4 wall returns

Backwash Line: To grade – 2”
Fill Line: ¾” automatic

Overflow Line: 2” gravity to lower end of yard

Spa Drains: Channel Drain – 2.5” line

Spa Jets: 6 at bench – 2” line

Spa Overflow: 2” line

W/F lines: 2” suction, 1.5” returns

Gas Line: From Meter to Heater



SPECIAL NOTES:

The following items are not included as part of this contract:

• Electric, water and gas at equipment pad by owner
• Fencing and Safety as per city code
• Landscaping and Irrigation

GUARANTEES:

5 YEAR ON STRUCTURE: PB warrants that the pool structure will remain structurally sound for a period of five (5) years from the date of installation (plaster) The term structurally sound means that the swimming pool is capable of retaining water, and in the event of failure to do so within the stated period, PB will repair the structure so that it will retain water, without charge to the owner, upon written notification of such defect.

THREE YEAR ON EQUIPMENT:Filter, pump, electronic controller and heater carry a 3-year warranty from the manufacturer.

ONE YEAR ON ALL OTHERS: All other features including coping, tile, plaster, plumbing lines, electrical, and accessories, are guaranteed against defects in workmanship and materials for twelve (12) months.

LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS: The above-mentioned warranties are to insure proper installation, workmanship and function of the swimming pool. In order to keep this warranty in effect, owner must continue routine pool operations and maintenance in accordance with the Pool Owner’s Manuals and Manufacturer’s Instructions. BP is not liable for any defects or damage caused by improper pool maintenance, negligence or misuse.


PRICE: PRICE BREAKDOWN:

Permits and Plans $ 1,000.00
Pool Structure & Equipment $ 54,000.00
Spa Structure and Equipment $ 11,000.00
Color Laminars and Equipment $ 4,000.00
Electronic Controller $ 2,500.00
Pool Decking and Drainage $ 4,500.00
Plaster care $ 500.00
Total Value of Improvements $ 77,500.00

Options: Plaster Upgrade - Pebble $ 2,000.00 _____
Helical Piers(8 recommended) $ 4,000.00 _____

 

[swimmerpool]

PB # 3

Pool Specifications:

• Max Length: 30’
• Max Width: 12’
• Depths: 3.5’-4.5’
• Pool Perimeter: 84’
• Pool Water Surface Area: 307’
• 8,116 gallons
  Spa Specifications:
• Max Length: 7’
• Max Width: 5’-7”
• Depths: 3.5’
• Spa Perimeter: 25’
• Spa Area: 38’
• 589 gallons

CUSTOM POOL & SPA CONSTRUCTION ESTIMATE
Pre-Excavation:

• Construction Drawings
• Dallas Permit
• Take down fence for access
  Excavation:
• 1.5hr. pre-grade for pool and spa
• Mini - Excavator
• Alley access for Dump trucks
• Does not include any utility or irrigation re-routes
  Pool & Spa Plumbing
• 2- skimmer 2.5” sch40 pvc
• Dual main drains 2.5” sch 40 pvc
• 4- pool return jets 1.5” sch 40 pvc
• 1- spa spillway line
• Bubblers at sunledges
• 6- Hydrotherapy spa return jets
• Dual spa main drains 2.5” sch 40 pvc
• Gas line from meter to heater included
  Steel Reinforcement:
• 4- 1⁄2” steel bars run continuously through pool beam
• 3/8” steel bars 8”o.c. walls and floor
• Alternate bars at 6” o.c. floor transition

Gunite Shell:

• 8” minimum floor and wall thickness.
• 12” minimum Bond Beam thickness
  Electrical:
• Up to 200’ conduit and wire
• Run wire over 200’ add 2.30/ft.
• 2- circuit breakers
• Wire- Pool pump
• Wire Pool Light
• Wire Spa Light
• Wire- Pool & Spa Computer controller
  Coping,Tile,Masonry, & Pool Deck :

• •••
Pool- 12”wide – Gray Limestone
Pool & Spa Waterline Tile- 6x6 standard
51 ft 4” drainage line , 25 ft 2” pool overflow drainage line539 sqft. Natural Salt finish Concrete
Pool & Spa Equipment:

• Astral QL540 Cartridge Filter
• Jandy Variable Speed 2.67HP pool pump
• Maytronics Active 20 robotic pool cleaner
• Clear Blue Ionizer – mineral pool water system
• Pool Defender- Zinc Sacrificial Anode/water bond
• Jandy Jxi 400,000btu Natural gas heater
• Jandy Hydrocool LED nicheless lights (4)
• Jandy iAqualink wireless pool computer(pc,tablet, or smartphone controlled)
• Jandy 1.5hp Air Blower for Spa
• Control valves
  Pool & Spa Plaster finish:
• Includes all pool fittings, return jets, and drain grates.
• White Plaster
  Pool Start-up & Orientation:
  • Pool controller programming and orientation meeting
  • Pole, brush, skimmer net, leaf rake, & test kit
  • Start-up chemicals included
  • 3- months free pool service +1 Free Filter clean service

PROJECT TOTAL ___________$61,932.38

Due at signing 5% : 3,096.62
Excavation 30% : 18,579.71
Gunite 30% : 18,579.71
Tile/Electric 30% : 18,579.71
Prior to Plaster 5% : 3,096.62

 

[swimmerpool]

PB # 4

Pool; Approximately $58,000

• 32’-5” x 12’-0”, 88’ perimeter, 389 sqft, 10,050 gallons
• Bobcat Shuttle, track hoe excavation and pre-grading of site
• (3) LED lights in pool
• Nature 2, Fusion, UV, Chlorine Sanitation System (we can change to Salt system if desired, additional cost required)
• iAqualink Control for Pool (can be run through phone, tablet, computer, etc)
• In-Floor Cleaning for Pool/Spa
• Standard tile allowance, travertine 3cm eased edge coping, Pebble Sheen plaster interior finish

• Due to soil conditions, excavation of 5’-6’ required for entire structure of pool along with filling area beneath sunbench, steps and benches with gravel.

Spa; Approximately $14,000

• 12’-0” x 5’-0”, 34’ perimeter, 60 sqft, 12,050 gallons
• (1) LED lights in spa
• 400,000 BTU gas heater (dual thermostat allows you to also heat pool if desired)
• (6) therapy jets in the spa

Synthetic Grass; $8,500

• Synthetic grass (approximately 705 sqft) installed in area shown on plan; between house and pool
• (this can be done by landscaper if preferred)

• Main items not included; landscaping, concrete or paver decking at this time

Total Rough Estimate Project Cost; $80,500

 

[Jimrahbe]

sp,

Here is a list of things that stuck out to me.. Keep in mind that I am a highly biased Pentair kind of guy...

PB#1
IntelliFlo VSF pump is good, but I would go with the standard VS (011028) instead. Not a big deal..
Nature2 Fusion is an absolute NO.
Racer pool cleaner - NO.. Just buy your own Maytronics robot
IntelliCenter with SWCG.. This is great and means this builder is keeping up with technology.
420 CCP filter is good
Del Ozone - another absolute NO

PB#2
IntelliFlo VS + SVRS.. IntelliFlo = Great, but the +SVRS is another absolute NO, NO, Never buy the SVRS option for any pump.
DE Filter. I am no longer a fan of DE filters.. Messing with DE is a pain and the plumbing is much more complicated due to having a backwash MVP valve. I vote for large cartridge filter. Dirt simple..
Salt system is Good.
Racer/with pump is NO
EasyTouch with ScreenLogic is old tech. Good but old.. If I were to build a new pool, I would go with the IntelliCenter.
Overflow is Good.. I would not want a pool without an overflow system.

PB#3
Robot cleaner - YES
Clear Blue Ionizer Mineral system... Run away from this as fast as you can.. Absolute NO
Pool Defender Anode. I see no use for this but it can't hurt.


PB#4
Nature2, Fusion and UV.. Another absolute NO.
In-Floor System... No, just buy a robot.


Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JJ_Tex]

The bid are a bit hard to follow, since they are not exactly apples-to-apples. For example:

- PB#2 mentions piers - You either need piers or you don't. Why does 1 PB have piers and the others do not?
- PB#4 has an in-floor cleaning system, the others do not. What type of cleaner to you want? In generally, we recommend robots purchased separately.
- PB#4 has synthetic grass installed. Do you want synthetic grass or not? If so, will the other pool builders do synthetic grass?
- PB#4 has Pebble Sheen, the others appear to have white plaster. Any good PB will be able to do a plaster, pebble, or quartz finish. What do you want?

 

[Newdude]

since they are not exactly apples-to-apples

And 8000 to 12000 gallons is 50% more pool.

 

[swimmerpool]

sp,

Here is a list of things that stuck out to me.. Keep in mind that I am a highly biased Pentair kind of guy...

PB#1
IntelliFlo VSF pump is good, but I would go with the standard VS (011028) instead. Not a big deal..
Nature2 Fusion is an absolute NO.
Racer pool cleaner - NO.. Just buy your own Maytronics robot
IntelliCenter with SWCG.. This is great and means this builder is keeping up with technology.
420 CCP filter is good
Del Ozone - another absolute NO

PB#2
IntelliFlo VS + SVRS.. IntelliFlo = Great, but the +SVRS is another absolute NO, NO, Never buy the SVRS option for any pump.
DE Filter. I am no longer a fan of DE filters.. Messing with DE is a pain and the plumbing is much more complicated due to having a backwash MVP valve. I vote for large cartridge filter. Dirt simple..
Salt system is Good.
Racer/with pump is NO
EasyTouch with ScreenLogic is old tech. Good but old.. If I were to build a new pool, I would go with the IntelliCenter.
Overflow is Good.. I would not want a pool without an overflow system.

PB#3
Robot cleaner - YES
Clear Blue Ionizer Mineral system... Run away from this as fast as you can.. Absolute NO
Pool Defender Anode. I see no use for this but it can't hurt.


PB#4
Nature2, Fusion and UV.. Another absolute NO.
In-Floor System... No, just buy a robot.


Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim thanks for your reply.
For things that you say No, what should I replace it with so I can go back to PB and ask for specific changes. Can you tell me ideally what would you choose among various equipment options and I can ask PB to come up with quote with those equipment options.

 

[swimmerpool]

The bid are a bit hard to follow, since they are not exactly apples-to-apples. For example:

- PB#2 mentions piers - You either need piers or you don't. Why does 1 PB have piers and the others do not?
- PB#4 has an in-floor cleaning system, the others do not. What type of cleaner to you want? In generally, we recommend robots purchased separately.
- PB#4 has synthetic grass installed. Do you want synthetic grass or not? If so, will the other pool builders do synthetic grass?
- PB#4 has Pebble Sheen, the others appear to have white plaster. Any good PB will be able to do a plaster, pebble, or quartz finish. What do you want?

Thanks for the reply.
I will not take into account cost of synthetic grass or piers to compare the bids to make them more even. In the mean time, I will ask them to give me quote on piers (if needed) and synthetic grass.

Who can tell me if I need piers? PB or home builder/contractor doing foundation?

I have no clue about floor cleaners. I would go with forums recommendation. If you all suggest buying robots separately, I will do that. Can you recommend which robot to buy and where can I get better pricing on it?
I will have find out from other PB about synthetic grass or I may ask Landscaper to do it.

I don't know which one is better between Pebble, Plaster or Quartz finish. Isn't PB # 1 and PB#2 doing Quartz finish for interior? Am I reading it incorrectly?

What equipments should I choose (build your own sort of) then I can ask all builders for the same and compare them. Because if forum does not recommend some equipments then I shall not choose that builder.

Once again thank you

 

[swimmerpool]

I agree with Jim, especially about the in-pool spa. They look great, with neat tile detail to compliment the pool, or water falling into the pool, lighting, etc. Awesome. But I can't imagine enjoying it much, nor paying for it. It's usually just an underwater concrete bench with a half-dozen or so jets that poke at your back. Have you ever been in a modern fiberglass spa, with the contoured seats and multiple, adjustable jets and aerators and controls and foot massagers and grape peelers and dancing girls. OK, maybe not the last two, but pre-fab spa design and niceties can never be approached by a in-pool gunite spa. If I was building from scratch, and could design anything I wanted, it'd be a nice, simple pool, about 12K gallons or so, and a separate, pre-fab fiberglass, free-standing spa, likely a ways away from the pool. Yes, it is nice to fall out of the spa into the pool once in a while, really the only redeeming thing about an in-pool spa, but I'd rather have it separate, and chock full of all that pre-fab goodness. Do you have kids? You can forget about relaxing in an in-pool spa if there are kids in the pool. To be able to let the kids (or rowdy friends) loose in the pool and have the "adult/quiet" area be the spa would, for me, far outweigh whatever there is to like about an in-pool spa.

And if you're going to get any kind of pebble finish, which I would recommend, you can forget about sitting/leaning comfortably on that surface, I don't care how much they polish it. I'd rather be kicked back on one of the reclined stations* in a fiberglass unit. Even with a bathing suit on (sorry, had to be said)...

* Did I mention, with pre-fab, there are models that have multiple stations, all slightly different in shape, so each station offers a different sitting/lounging position. One just right for any one particular guest, or for any one particular set of sore muscles. With in-pool, you pretty much get one, concrete bench. I've seen some designed with a couple benches of different heights, that's it, but not sure how much more that costs!

This is a form-over-function issue. Do you want it to look amazing, or feel amazing (a case could be made for either). Though with a little imagination, you could have a surround built for a free-standing spa that would marry it aesthetically to the pool. Conceivably, it could even be sunk-in to match the depth and location that an in-pool spa would be located.

All kinds of possibilities... go try out some spas, both concrete and pre-fab, before you make such an in-stone (literally) decision...

Do you recommend to get pebble finish?

 

[swimmerpool]

I've linked to this article a time or two before. It's not that gunite spas can't be built to be nearly as comfortable and effective as standalone spas, but that builders haven't educated themselves on how to do it and what products to use. That said, you don't want to be the one educating your PB on this. If you were so lucky as to find a PB that was knowledgeable on spas as discussed in this article, it would take much/most of the gunite spa penalty away.

Closing the comfort gap

Since your pool will be on the smaller side, I'd prioritize pool size over features like pebble. A good quartz that lasts almost as long may buy you a bigger pool. But then also weigh deck space versus pool space. A big pool with too little deck space would be annoying.

Yes to SWG, VS pump and oversized filter.

You mention oversized filter? Can you tell me more about it. What size?

Regarding deck space - total space in courtyard is 23 feet. Pool will be 13' wide and will leave 5' on either side. How big of a deck space should I have?

 

[swimmerpool]

I haven't asked the pool builder but as per home builder, no pier beam needed for pool. He reviewed soil report with me.

 

[swimmerpool]

I agree with Jim, especially about the in-pool spa. They look great, with neat tile detail to compliment the pool, or water falling into the pool, lighting, etc. Awesome. But I can't imagine enjoying it much, nor paying for it. It's usually just an underwater concrete bench with a half-dozen or so jets that poke at your back. Have you ever been in a modern fiberglass spa, with the contoured seats and multiple, adjustable jets and aerators and controls and foot massagers and grape peelers and dancing girls. OK, maybe not the last two, but pre-fab spa design and niceties can never be approached by a in-pool gunite spa. If I was building from scratch, and could design anything I wanted, it'd be a nice, simple pool, about 12K gallons or so, and a separate, pre-fab fiberglass, free-standing spa, likely a ways away from the pool. Yes, it is nice to fall out of the spa into the pool once in a while, really the only redeeming thing about an in-pool spa, but I'd rather have it separate, and chock full of all that pre-fab goodness. Do you have kids? You can forget about relaxing in an in-pool spa if there are kids in the pool. To be able to let the kids (or rowdy friends) loose in the pool and have the "adult/quiet" area be the spa would, for me, far outweigh whatever there is to like about an in-pool spa.

And if you're going to get any kind of pebble finish, which I would recommend, you can forget about sitting/leaning comfortably on that surface, I don't care how much they polish it. I'd rather be kicked back on one of the reclined stations* in a fiberglass unit. Even with a bathing suit on (sorry, had to be said)...

* Did I mention, with pre-fab, there are models that have multiple stations, all slightly different in shape, so each station offers a different sitting/lounging position. One just right for any one particular guest, or for any one particular set of sore muscles. With in-pool, you pretty much get one, concrete bench. I've seen some designed with a couple benches of different heights, that's it, but not sure how much more that costs!

This is a form-over-function issue. Do you want it to look amazing, or feel amazing (a case could be made for either). Though with a little imagination, you could have a surround built for a free-standing spa that would marry it aesthetically to the pool. Conceivably, it could even be sunk-in to match the depth and location that an in-pool spa would be located.

All kinds of possibilities... go try out some spas, both concrete and pre-fab, before you make such an in-stone (literally) decision...

I am asking PB about pre-fab spa but won't have enough space in back yard to keep spa away from pool.

Speaking of which...

Drainage!! Not long yesterday after I wrote about laying down pipes and conduit before pouring your decking, I found myself grumbling, on my hands and knees, digging a small trench on both sides of a concrete walkway in order to shove a 5' x 3" piece of ABS pipe under it! The job involved digging and water-jetting, and sledge-hammering and mud, and a lot of swearing!! I have a small planting bed next to my house, surrounded by concrete, into which drains one of my rain gutters. It doesn't take much of a rain for that bed to fill with water and overflow onto the concrete walkway, and then the mulch floats out of the bed onto the walkway and all over parts below. Every time. So I'm rerouting the downspout under the walkway, through the ABS pipe, and out the other side, and adding a drain in the bed, too, so any water that collects in the bed will now flow under the sidewalk instead of over it.

And this nasty chore was even possible because the walkway is only 4' wide. Imaging trying to solve a problem like that under a 10 or 20' wide stretch of deck!! Point was... I wasn't kidding about trying to plan ahead as much as you can, and really think about what might need to go where, so you can take care of it before the concrete goes down. Fixing this drainage problem is going to cost me about a day of hard labor (I have more to do this afternoon, including more trenching and all the plumbing). It would have been an easy 20-minute job had my pool's builder thought about drainage before he installed that walkway!

Now, he did lay drain pipes under other areas of my pool's deck, so it's not like he didn't know to do it. He just overlooked that one spot. So even if you've got a builder who knows his stuff, ya gotta keep an eye on him, on everything, and try to think of things he might not have considered... Things he forgets will not bother him, he'll be long gone after you hand him his last check. It's you that will have to live with the missed opportunities...

@Dirk,

I am confused with your posts and the above post. Have drains or do not have them?

As in your other post regarding laying pipes, wires etc I will ask PB to think about those that I may need in future.

I don't have much space left in my backyard so it will be difficult for me to have Spa away from pool. I will ask builder regarding pre-fab spa but don't know if that will increase the cost of the pool as I can't go above 75K.

Since you said pebble is hard on elbow, thigh and butt, I chose plaster.

 

[swimmerpool]

And 8000 to 12000 gallons is 50% more pool.

Why is PB# 3 pool only 8000 gallons as it is round about same size as other pools and they are 12,000 gallons? What am i not understanding?

 

[swimmerpool]

PB # 2 and PB # 3 are recommend by my Home builder and he has worked with them before.

I have sent long email to PB # 2 as there were lot of comments by forum members and needed lot of changes as below:
- I like IntelliFlo pumps except the one that has the SVRS option as included in this proposal. I don't think I need SVRS option especially since I will have dual drains per proposal.
- Usually IntelliFlo pump with SVRS option will go into "entrapment mode" and shut off any time there is the slightest surge in pump pressure.
- I would go with any other IntelliFlo. How about the 011018 or the 011028.
- Salt system is good but is there any reason to have an in-line chlorinator (Tab feeder) if I have SWCG?
- How about a large cartridge filter over a DE filter? No multiport valve to fail or leak later on. Simple might be better.
- How about a robot cleaner to clean the pool instead of a water powered cleaner and booster pump (Pentair Racer with pump)?
- How about Pentair IntelliCenter? Is it better than EasyTouch/ScreenLogic? I want to make sure any automation system I get has the built-in SWCG power supply. I will need to know automation controller's model No.
- Overflow is Good.. I would not want a pool without an overflow system.
- Also Salt cell needs to be at least 2 x the volume of your pool.
- The Spa in proposal - is it Gunite spa? Is that same as concrete spa? How expensive will be fiber glass spa? How often do you build them?
- How will falling water feature affect pH of water?
- Contract states you are to bring utilities to the pad at your expense --- what does it mean since we are building the home?
- What is the advantage of the main drains especially in a shallow pool (as forum recommend not have it)? Is plumbing home runs for skimmers/returns included in the proposal?

PB # 3 has lowest bid.
The only comments on PB # 3 on this forum are
Robot cleaner - YES
Clear Blue Ionizer Mineral system... Run away from this as fast as you can.. Absolute NO
Pool Defender Anode. I see no use for this but it can't hurt.
8000 gallons vs 12,000 gallons - which I will ask him once forum embers can explain me why his pool capacity is lower?

Does it mean everything else looks good on PB # 3 before I decide between PB # 2 (only if he makes changes as per forum members) and PB # 3

Please do advise. Thanks a lot.

 

[Newdude]

8000 gallons vs 12,000 gallons - which I will ask him once forum embers can explain me why his pool capacity is lower

It’s a simple volume calculation. Length times witdh times average depth times 7.481 (gallons per cubic foot)

if they aren’t completely square it gets trickier because ‘12’ ft at its ‘widest’ might curve substantially less than that at points and make less gallons than the rectangle.

 

[JJ_Tex]

On PB #2, they recommended 8 piers. Did you ever ask him about that?

On PB #3, I'm not sure what you are asking on the capacity. The pool is smaller, so it is cheaper and has less capacity. I'm sure they could build you a bigger pool, but right now it is 30x12 vs 48x13 for PB2.

 

[swimmerpool]

I sent email to PB # 2, why did he put Pier Beams as optional? I will let you know the answer.
Also PB # 2 said, he charges same price for upto 450 sq ft even if I want a smaller pool. There is no way I will have such long pool (13' x 48') as I don't have too much space in back. My pool will be 13' x 30 'max but I will have to still pay the same price for smaller pool.

I am sending email to PB # 3 to increase pool size to 13 x 30 from 12 x 30 and to give me pool depth of 3.5’ to 5’ to 4’ (like PB # 2) instead of 3.5' - 4.5'. I will find out how much that would change the pricing.

Any other changes recommended for PB # 3? It appears forum members are agreeing with PB # 3 suggestions.

 

[swimmerpool]

I spoke with PB # 3. He has sent a revised quote. We increased the depth of pool and size a little bit. PB # 2 pool is way bigger but we won't go for that size pool.

Please take a look at revised quote.

Should I choose any upgrades from the bottom of the quote?

He told me even salt water pool will have some chlorine in water and needs chlorine tablets. However with what he is proving the amount of chlorine will be way lower in pool water. He sent me a link:
Here is a link to ionizer : Pool ionizer system reduces maintenance and chemicals - ClearBlue Ionizer Inc.

I remember comment on PB # 2 that Salt system is good but is there any reason to have an in-line chlorinator (Tab feeder) if I have SWCG? Which means no need for chlorinator if have salt system. But he mentioned chlorine generated from salt system will be higher content and with clear blue ionized the content of chlorine needed in water will be much less.

He also spoke about pebble finish. He said even other finishes become will become rough as time goes by and pebble finish will last long.
Here is a link to the pebble finish manufacturer Wet Edge | Signature Matrix

Revised quote from PB # 3


Please comment:




Pool Specifications:


• Max Length: 30’


• Max Width: 13’


• Depths: 3.5’-5.0’-4.0’


• Pool Perimeter: 91’


• Pool Water Surface Area: 370’


• 9,430 gallons


Spa Specifications:


• Max Length: 7’


• Max Width: 7’


• Depths: 3.5’


• Spa Perimeter: 28’


• Spa Area: 49’


• 760 gallons


Pre-Excavation:


• Construction Drawings

• • Dallas Permit

• Take down fence for access


Excavation:


• 1.5hr. pre-grade for pool and spa


• Mini - Excavator


• Alley access for Dump trucks


• Does not include any utility or irrigation re-routes


Pool & Spa Plumbing


• 2- skimmer 2” sch40 pvc


• Dual main drains 2.5” sch 40 pvc


• 4- pool return jets 1.5” sch 40 pvc


• 1- spa spillway line


• 6- Hydrotherapy spa return jets


• Dual spa main drains 2.5” sch 40 pvc

• • Based on 20ft. distance from water’s edge to equipment

• Gas line from meter to heater up to 50ft. included


Steel Reinforcement:


• 4- ½” steel bars run continuously through pool beam


• 1/2” steel bars 10”o.c. walls and floor


• Alternate bars at 6” o.c. floor transition


Gunite Shell:


• 8” minimum floor and wall thickness.


• 12” minimum Bond Beam thickness


Electrical:


• Homebuilder to provide power run to equipment location 100amp service

• • Up to 200’ conduit and wire

• Run wire over 200’ add 3.30/ft.


• Wire- Pool pump


• Wire Pool Light


• Wire Spa Light


• Crown to install Sub Panel at equipment location with Siemens Brand Breakers

• • Wire- Pool & Spa Computer controller

Coping,Tile, and Masonry :


• Pool Coping - 12”wide – Travertine – Ivory


• Pool & Spa Waterline Tile- 6x6 standard

• • 1x1 glass tile on front side of spa

Pool & Spa Equipment:


• Astral QL540 Cartridge Filter


• Jandy Variable Speed 2.67HP pool pump


• Maytronics Active 20 robotic pool cleaner -$999


• Pool Defender- Zinc Sacrificial Anode/water bond $175


• Jandy Jxi 400,000btu Natural gas heater


• Jandy Hydrocool LED nicheless lights (3) - $1,197


• Jandy iAqualink wireless pool computer(pc,tablet, or smartphone controlled)


• Jandy 1.5hp Air Blower for Spa


• Control valves + Inline Chlorine Feeder


Pool & Spa Plaster finish:


• Includes all pool fittings, return jets, and drain grates.


• White Plaster with Metamax


Pool Start-up & Orientation:

• • Pool controller programming and orientation meeting
• • Pole, brush, skimmer net, leaf rake, & test kit
• • Start-up chemicals included
• • 3- months free pool service +1 Free Filter clean service

PROJECT TOTAL __________________$ 67,378.67


Optional Upgrades :


Clear Blue Ionizer System : $795


Fluidra Astral E35 Salt System: $ 949


50% Blue Quartz Plaster : $939


Wet Edge Signature Matrix Level 1 color Pebble Finish : $2,261


Upgrade to 18” wide Ivory Travertine coping : $637


Synthetic Grass Estimate 560 sf : $7,840


Natural Salt Finish Concrete Estimate 560 sf : $6,440


Drainage lines for deck or turf(117ft 4” line , 25ft overflow line: $1359


*NO LANDSCAPING, IRRIGATION RE-ROUTES , OR UTILITY RE-ROUTES INCLUDED