Help need Recommendations

[JKFinn]

Hello Everyone,
I live in Oklahoma. I have a pool builder who just submitted his estimate to build a 22x41 gunite pool and 8x8 spa.

His quote:
- 22x41 gunite pool

• Equipment
• 140k heat pump/ chiller
• Variable Speed H/E pump
• Jandy Automation
• Salt Chlorine Generator
• Jandy sand filter
• 3 -24v Jandy led color changing lights
• 2- bubblers on tanning ledge
• In floor cleaning system
• - 8x8 spa: Tile, coping, plaster 2main drains, 8 returns. 8’ spillway into pool

Tile and coping - basic tile to choose from and includes basic brick choices. Travertine, limestone, and granite are all upgrades.


Questions:

1. Thoughts on the quote or recommendations are greatly appreciated.
2. Thoughts on the equipment... size of salt generator needed, heat pump good enough for spa or need secondary NG for really cold times? Are there things here not including that I should think about?) In floor cleaning system, good or bad?
3. Pool Finish Recommendation? Want a smooth surface finish. We considered using Pebble sheen, but PB suggested we look at eco-finish or Rebound Pool Surfaces. I can’t find a lot of information on these finishes. I would love to get your feedback and the best option for a smooth finish.
   Thanks

 

[HermanTX]

Thoughts on the quote or recommendations are greatly appreciated.

There was no mention of skimmers. It would be best to have 2 skimmers, each should be independently plumbed back to the equipment pad.
In Floor Cleaning Systems (IFCS) have mixed reviews on the forum. You can search. Some love them and others don‘t care for them at all. If you do go with it, ensure there are side returns in addition to the IFCS. this ensures you can circulate your water around your pool.

size of salt generator needed, heat pump good enough for spa or need secondary NG for really cold times?

You don’t provide your pool depths so not sure of your volume but it is best to have your SWCG be rated 2x your pool volume. The Jandy AquaPure 1400 is rated at 40,000 gals so that would be suitable for a 20,000 gal pool.

With regard to heater, a NG heater such as 200BTU or 400BTU can heat your spa fairly quickly. While the 140k can work, it may take a while to heat the spa. Do you need the chiller? If not, then focus on the heater of a higher BTU rating to heat the spa quicker.
Sand filters are fine but they do require maintenance. The other option is a cartridge filter which Jandy also makes.

Also, you need to have the PB provide model numbers of equipment to get a better review. It appears the PB is quoting Jandy equipment so is it a Jandy ePump? What is the model of the Jandy automation system? I made an assumption on the Jandy AquaPure 1400 SWCG so you need to verify that. That is the only way to understand what you are really getting.

 

[bmoreswim]

Here's an article on pool finishes. It does discuss Ecofinish. I was initially a fan of it, but I became less so due to the installation issues that can occur. When done right, it's great. If not, it can be an issue. It's also not popular so that always adds complexity to using something. You can search it on this site and find many discussions about it. Pebble finishes last longer than plaster and come with different size pebbles for various levels of smooth. Plain (or tinted) plaster is very smooth. Quartz finishes are also very smooth with quartz replacing the marble dust, and is therefore more long-lasting (in between plain plaster and pebble finishes for longevity). Surface longevity ranges from 10 years or so to 25/30? Based largely on surface type and water balance over the life of the pool.

Pool Surfaces - Trouble Free Pool

 

[PoolGate]

With Jandy equipment, the only "real" choice is the Aquapure 1400 or Nature2 FusionSoft 1400. Both have the same cell. If you have a spa, and you want that spa to be very warm/hot, the only option is a gas heater. A heat pump generally is not a good choice for a spa. Do you need a chiller in OK? I recommend a cartridge filter over the sand. IMO, sand and DE filters are archaic relics of the past. In-floor cleaning systems generally are not recommended. Get a good robot instead. I suggest the one in my sigline. Make sure your Aqualink is an RS system and not a PDA system.

Do you have a concept drawing?

 

[Jimrahbe]

JK,

Was it your idea to have an IFCS or the pool builders??? If it was the builder's idea, I'd dump it in a heart beat.

If it was your idea, then I would make absolutely sure that it is plumbed in a way that you can turn it off. Most of them are integrated into the plumbing in such a way that it is impossible to run the pool without them.. What you want is a standard pool that can run on its own, with a valve that you can turn on or off to allow the IFCS to work or not. IFCS make pool plumbing much more complex than it needs to be. Not initially an issue, it will be later on when something goes wrong. I am a big fan of low voltage electric Robots... Like this one...

I would buy this on your own and not from a pool builder..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[bmoreswim]

JK,

Was it your idea to have an IFCS or the pool builders??? If it was the builder's idea, I'd dump it in a heart beat.

If it was your idea, then I would make absolutely sure that it is plumbed in a way that you can turn it off. Most of them are integrated into the plumbing in such a way that it is impossible to run the pool without them.. What you want is a standard pool that can run on its own, with a valve that you can turn on or off to allow the IFCS to work or not. IFCS make pool plumbing much more complex than it needs to be. Not initially an issue, it will be later on when something goes wrong. I am a big fan of low voltage electric Robots... Like this one...

I would buy this on your own and not from a pool builder..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Yeesh, I missed the IFCS. +1.

 

[JKFinn]

There was no mention of skimmers. It would be best to have 2 skimmers, each should be independently plumbed back to the equipment pad.
In Floor Cleaning Systems (IFCS) have mixed reviews on the forum. You can search. Some love them and others don‘t care for them at all. If you do go with it, ensure there are side returns in addition to the IFCS. this ensures you can circulate your water around your pool.


You don’t provide your pool depths so not sure of your volume but it is best to have your SWCG be rated 2x your pool volume. The Jandy AquaPure 1400 is rated at 40,000 gals so that would be suitable for a 20,000 gal pool.

With regard to heater, a NG heater such as 200BTU or 400BTU can heat your spa fairly quickly. While the 140k can work, it may take a while to heat the spa. Do you need the chiller? If not, then focus on the heater of a higher BTU rating to heat the spa quicker.
Sand filters are fine but they do require maintenance. The other option is a cartridge filter which Jandy also makes.

Also, you need to have the PB provide model numbers of equipment to get a better review. It appears the PB is quoting Jandy equipment so is it a Jandy ePump? What is the model of the Jandy automation system? I made an assumption on the Jandy AquaPure 1400 SWCG so you need to verify that. That is the only way to understand what you are really getting.

Thank you for the reply, I did verify 2 skimmers but I’m not sure about each on a dedicated line, but will ask that. We are 8’ on the deep, I believe approx 25k. Will that still be good for the aquapure 1400? I don’t have model #s yet, but it is supposed too be a full automation control. PB is supposed to have a full spec sheet with concept drawing to me by the end of the week. Will post as soon as I receive. PB also mentioned Zodiac controller, any thoughts. Not sure if a chiller is a must have in Oklahoma. PB has a chiller and they said they would definitely recommend? I was looking at the heat pump for long term cost of ownership, but am considering a second NG for when it gets too cold or quick heat up, is this a good option? Thanks again for the advice with all this! I sure appreciate it the help.

 

[JKFinn]

JK,

Was it your idea to have an IFCS or the pool builders??? If it was the builder's idea, I'd dump it in a heart beat.

If it was your idea, then I would make absolutely sure that it is plumbed in a way that you can turn it off. Most of them are integrated into the plumbing in such a way that it is impossible to run the pool without them.. What you want is a standard pool that can run on its own, with a valve that you can turn on or off to allow the IFCS to work or not. IFCS make pool plumbing much more complex than it needs to be. Not initially an issue, it will be later on when something goes wrong. I am a big fan of low voltage electric Robots... Like this one...

I would buy this on your own and not from a pool builder..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks for the feedback. The IFCS was initially my idea to cut down on cleaning. After reading about them, I may forget it and go for a good robot instead. I’m concerned about a long term issue. Thanks for the advice and the link, I’ll check it out.

 

[JKFinn]

JK,

Was it your idea to have an IFCS or the pool builders??? If it was the builder's idea, I'd dump it in a heart beat.

If it was your idea, then I would make absolutely sure that it is plumbed in a way that you can turn it off. Most of them are integrated into the plumbing in such a way that it is impossible to run the pool without them.. What you want is a standard pool that can run on its own, with a valve that you can turn on or off to allow the IFCS to work or not. IFCS make pool plumbing much more complex than it needs to be. Not initially an issue, it will be later on when something goes wrong. I am a big fan of low voltage electric Robots... Like this one...

I would buy this on your own and not from a pool builder..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks for the feedback the IFCS was initially my idea to cut down on cleaning. After reading about them, I may forget it and go for a good robot instead. I’m concerned about a long term issue. Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[JKFinn]

Here's an article on pool finishes. It does discuss Ecofinish. I was initially a fan of it, but I became less so due to the installation issues that can occur. When done right, it's great. If not, it can be an issue. It's also not popular so that always adds complexity to using something. You can search it on this site and find many discussions about it. Pebble finishes last longer than plaster and come with different size pebbles for various levels of smooth. Plain (or tinted) plaster is very smooth. Quartz finishes are also very smooth with quartz replacing the marble dust, and is therefore more long-lasting (in between plain plaster and pebble finishes for longevity). Surface longevity ranges from 10 years or so to 25/30? Based largely on surface type and water balance over the life of the pool.

Pool Surfaces - Trouble Free Pool

Great! Thank for the article on pool surfaces, I’ll take a look. I‘m on the fence about eco-finish as well due to installation issues that can occurs. PB also suggested we look into rebound pool surfaces, but this is relatively new to the surface market so I’m not finding a lot of reviews. I appreciate your help!

 

[HermanTX]

Thank you for the reply, I did verify 2 skimmers but I’m not sure about each on a dedicated line, but will ask that. We are 8’ on the deep, I believe approx 25k. Will that still be good for the aquapure 1400? I don’t have model #s yet, but it is supposed too be a full automation control. PB is supposed to have a full spec sheet with concept drawing to me by the end of the week. Will post as soon as I receive. PB also mentioned Zodiac controller, any thoughts. Not sure if a chiller is a must have in Oklahoma. PB has a chiller and they said they would definitely recommend? I was looking at the heat pump for long term cost of ownership, but am considering a second NG for when it gets too cold or quick heat up, is this a good option? Thanks again for the advice with all this! I sure appreciate it the help.

If you are at 25k gals the AP 1400 should be fine. It is the largest SWCG that Jandy makes.

I suggest you need to think about your use of pool and spa. If you want to jump in your spa after 30 mins of kicking on the heater then you need to consider a NG 200 or 400btu.

A Jandy cartridge filter will serve you well. Just get a large one.

 

[PoolGate]

Thank you for the reply, I did verify 2 skimmers but I’m not sure about each on a dedicated line, but will ask that. We are 8’ on the deep, I believe approx 25k. Will that still be good for the aquapure 1400? I don’t have model #s yet, but it is supposed too be a full automation control. PB is supposed to have a full spec sheet with concept drawing to me by the end of the week. Will post as soon as I receive. PB also mentioned Zodiac controller, any thoughts. Not sure if a chiller is a must have in Oklahoma. PB has a chiller and they said they would definitely recommend? I was looking at the heat pump for long term cost of ownership, but am considering a second NG for when it gets too cold or quick heat up, is this a good option? Thanks again for the advice with all this! I sure appreciate it the help.

A "Zodiac" controller is most likely "Aqualink". Just make sure it is an Aqualink-RS system with full Internet access (Alexa too!). I have the Nature2 1400 and I am 29k gallons. I run the SWG at 55% which keeps me at 7 parts chlorine.

 

[JKFinn]

If you are at 25k gals the AP 1400 should be fine. It is the largest SWCG that Jandy makes.

I suggest you need to think about your use of pool and spa. If you want to jump in your spa after 30 mins of kicking on the heater then you need to consider a NG 200 or 400btu.

A Jandy cartridge filter will serve you well. Just get a large one.

Great, thank you! I’m considering the heat pump/chiller for the pool and NG 200 for the spa. Also, I told PB I want to switch to the cartridge filter. I sure appreciate it!

 

[JKFinn]

A "Zodiac" controller is most likely "Aqualink". Just make sure it is an Aqualink-RS system with full Internet access (Alexa too!). I have the Nature2 1400 and I am 29k gallons. I run the SWG at 55% which keeps me at 7 parts chlorine.

great, I will double check. Thank you!

 

[Wolfepack88]

Every time I read the feedback you all give I am so impressed with the knowledge and straight forward advice you provide!!

 

[JKFinn]

I received the spec sheet with equipment model numbers from our PB. I did tell him to switch to cartridge filter vs sand. Also, questioning the qty. of lights. He has 2 in the pool 1 in the spa all 12W. I believe these are the nichless lights. Our pool is 22x41 including tanning ledge. The lights will be on the long side. I was thinking we would need more like 4 of the 24W? Also, I noticed he forgot the SWG, so I will have that added. Let me know any feedback you have on this...anything we should add or omit. I am attaching a pic from my window with markup for the pool/spa to give an idea. PB supposed to get me the rendering, but this will work until then.
Thank you all. Your insight has been beyond helpful. Does this equipment list look good for my pool? Should I change any brands/models. Recommendations are greatly appreciate! thanks

 

[JKFinn]

With Jandy equipment, the only "real" choice is the Aquapure 1400 or Nature2 FusionSoft 1400. Both have the same cell. If you have a spa, and you want that spa to be very warm/hot, the only option is a gas heater. A heat pump generally is not a good choice for a spa. Do you need a chiller in OK? I recommend a cartridge filter over the sand. IMO, sand and DE filters are archaic relics of the past. In-floor cleaning systems generally are not recommended. Get a good robot instead. I suggest the one in my sigline. Make sure your Aqualink is an RS system and not a PDA system.

Do you have a concept drawing?

No concept drawing in hand, we looked at it live on the PB pc. I will get a hard copy from him. I am going to scrap the IFCS and go with the robot. The chiller is a want and heat pump so we can use the pool longer more economically. I am co soldering adding a NG heater for the spa. I did get the spec sheet from the builder today. And posted it. Let me know if you have any thoughts. Thank you so much!!

 

[HermanTX]

Thanks for the equipment list. So it appears you have a pump for your deck jets and the main pump for filtration. PB did include the 400BTU NG Heater and the Heat Pump.

When you get into pool specs, ask that you have 2 skimmers and have each independently plumped back to the equipment pad.

You should ask the PB to provide you a plumbing diagram as he has specked out a number of Jandy NeverLube valves so be good to see where he got everything positioned.

Ensure the pool lights are positioned on the side closest to the house so they project away from the house across the pool.

 

[JKFinn]

Thanks for the equipment list. So it appears you have a pump for your deck jets and the main pump for filtration. PB did include the 400BTU NG Heater and the Heat Pump.

When you get into pool specs, ask that you have 2 skimmers and have each independently plumped back to the equipment pad.

You should ask the PB to provide you a plumbing diagram as he has specked out a number of Jandy NeverLube valves so be good to see where he got everything positioned.

Ensure the pool lights are positioned on the side closest to the house so they project away from the house across the pool.

Hi, I did verify 2 skimmers with home runs and 8 returns. 3 on each side 2 on the deep end. He has one 2.7 VS pump for the pool and one for the spa. He has a 1.85 VS for 8 deck jets and 2 bubblers. He has 2 12w nichless lights for the pool. After looking at jandy s lighting guide it looks like i need more like 4-5 24w lights for the pool? He thinks 2 are bright enough, but can add for $500 each. Do you think the lights are all better on one side or some on the side one one the end. I will attach a couple of drawings with marks for the lights. Thanks again for all of your feedback!

 

[HermanTX]

He has 2 12w nichless lights for the pool. After looking at jandy s lighting guide it looks like i need more like 4-5 24w lights for the pool? He thinks 2 are bright enough, but can add for $500 each. Do you think the lights are all better on one side or some on the side one one the end.

There are some basic guidelines for number of lights but it really is subjective on what works for you and what works for the pool. You can have a bubbler with a light if that helps with lighting the sun deck. It may cost more than just a plain bubbler but it does look nice with the light directly under the water (bubbler). I recommend having a light in the spa. Then the 1 or2 on the wall you have denoted.