Help me pick the right SWG unit please!

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yubbie2

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Apr 1, 2017
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Houston, TX
Alright, I've drunk the Kool-aid and I'm ready to get a SWG.

Let's review: ~27,000 gallon plaster pool (maybe as high as 30k, maybe as low as 25k. Weird shape and hard to measure). 2 return jets, 1 filter basket inlet. Bottom drain (~9.5 feet) either clogged or shut off. So only moderate circulation, but my Dolphin robot cleaner seems to shake things up enough daily. 1.5HP Pentair single speed pump which I run for 10-12 hours a day - about 6 years old, and I'll likely replace with a VS if this one dies and I can't rebuild it. Old school 220v Intermatic manual timer.
Been using 12.5% bleach I get from a local chemical supply company, but it's a pain in the rear to deal with, remember to do, etc. I've been told I need to start wearing clothes without bleach spots on them :) The pool is FULL sun in Houston, TX, so bleach demand is generally pretty high, interspersed with our yearly 500-year flood so lots of rain too.

I'm down to choosing between 4 models:
CircuPool RJ-45 Plus ($1243 at discountsaltpool)
CircuPool RJ-60 Plus ($1393)
CircuPool EDGE-40 ($913 !!)
Hayward AquaRite T-15 ($1329 at Amazon)

Early reviews on this site seemed wary of CircuPool, but now they seem pretty positive. Hayward is seemingly the 'gold standard', but you pay for that privilege and they seem to have the worst warranty of all and the highest cell replacement cost. I can't quite figure out why the EDGE is so much cheaper than the RJ series. Is it because you can only adjust in larger increments? Even the EDGE replacement cells are way cheaper than the RJ series.

I know 'larger is better', so that would generally push me towards the RJ-60 plus. But if it were between the RJ-45 and the EDGE-40, which would win and why?
 
A 60 sized cell is good. You need to decide if you are going to change the pump(i would). Try to stick with one brand, mix and match dont play well with automation if you decide to do it later on. Im a Pentair guy.
 
No automation in my future. No room for jets, fountains, or anything nice. No funding either. Lol. I’ll replace the pump when I need to - the funding committee is going to need to be convinced about the SWG move as it is :)
 
yubbie2 said:
Alright, I've drunk the Kool-aid and I'm ready to get a SWG.

Let's review: ~27,000 gallon plaster pool (maybe as high as 30k, maybe as low as 25k. Weird shape and hard to measure). 2 return jets, 1 filter basket inlet. Bottom drain (~9.5 feet) either clogged or shut off. So only moderate circulation, but my Dolphin robot cleaner seems to shake things up enough daily. 1.5HP Pentair single speed pump which I run for 10-12 hours a day - about 6 years old, and I'll likely replace with a VS if this one dies and I can't rebuild it. Old school 220v Intermatic manual timer.
Been using 12.5% bleach I get from a local chemical supply company, but it's a pain in the rear to deal with, remember to do, etc. I've been told I need to start wearing clothes without bleach spots on them :) The pool is FULL sun in Houston, TX, so bleach demand is generally pretty high, interspersed with our yearly 500-year flood so lots of rain too.

I'm down to choosing between 4 models:
CircuPool RJ-45 Plus ($1243 at discountsaltpool)
CircuPool RJ-60 Plus ($1393)
CircuPool EDGE-40 ($913 !!)
Hayward AquaRite T-15 ($1329 at Amazon)

Early reviews on this site seemed wary of CircuPool, but now they seem pretty positive. Hayward is seemingly the 'gold standard', but you pay for that privilege and they seem to have the worst warranty of all and the highest cell replacement cost. I can't quite figure out why the EDGE is so much cheaper than the RJ series. Is it because you can only adjust in larger increments? Even the EDGE replacement cells are way cheaper than the RJ series.

I know 'larger is better', so that would generally push me towards the RJ-60 plus. But if it were between the RJ-45 and the EDGE-40, which would win and why?
Click to expand...

Start soapbox, these are my opinions based on researching this stuff WAYY to much. It's biased towards the way I went, obviouslty:

Wait until the end of the season. At the prices that Circupool raised all of their stuff up to right after I bought mine, they are probably not worth it. I have heard that they have done this in the past and the prices went back down. But the increase on my Universal 40, BTW was +16% right after I bought it. And the difference between that and other Hayward GoldLine clones (and I think all of them might not even be clones, they are probably all from the same factory) is now about $250 instead of $125.

The Hayward AquaRite T-15 is basically the same unit and the Circupool Universal 40. I thought they might be the same but I have gone through the publicly available schematics for the GoldLine power boards and they are identical to what I probed out on the Circupool unit minus the RS-422 line driver being missing on the Circupool. The processor board is laid out differently as well so the LED's run Horizontally instead of vertically, but the circuitry seems the same to the point of even having a Remote LED on the front panel with no official Remote capability. I would almost bet money if I were to put in a power board from a T-15 and hooked it up to RS-422 I could be able to control my unit. Or if I ran TTL serial to the right point on the Circupool I might also gain that functionality.

That brings up control. All you can control on the Hayward SWCG is percentage of generation, and I think you can turn it on and off and turbo boost. I don't think you can even read back the temperature from the unit. So honestly if you are so lazy you can't go out and flip a switch or turn a knob then you would want automation on the unit. The SWCG's once dialed in are very set and forget... so meh on automation IMHO.

Like I said the Hayward unit is Chinese just like the Circupool and there are at least three other places you can get a unit like mine. It was worth DSP/Circupool's reputation for warranty support at $100 more, but at $250 more, since you can get aftermarket Hayward cells just about anywhere.. the 80% of the cost of a replacement cell is probably not worth paying for the warranty. I don't know if I can recommend them at the price level they currently are at!

Hayward T-15 cell is equivalent to the Ui/Si-40 Circupool cell. Circupool makes a replacement cell for the Haywards. There might be slight differences in the units just to make it difficult to mix and match these cells -- that I will probably have to deal with in three or four years.

For the Edge and Core units... they might be unique to CircuPool but the certainly don't manufacture them. I think the RJ series is actually dated (like mine Universal) and you would be better off going Edge or Core. They seem to have variable switching power supplies to the cell rather than varying on and off duty cycle. But I think the main reason the RJ+'s are as expensive as they are is because they technically have the bells and whistles that the Edge and Core (but not the Universal! It functions JUST like a Hayward GoldLine!) seem to lack like percentage control. I think it's mainly marketing because it's the most feature ridden unit.

Now for the Pentair units. They have a good reputation but their controller (if I am reading this correctly) is built into the cell and the system I think becomes a throwaway at the end of the cell life.. you have to buy most of it. Hayward, Cricupool and other clones all have the cells separate and can be replaced until the controller fails. In the case of the Hayward, boards are readily available if you are a geek like me and you probably can still fix one. I am actually looking for a dead T-15 setup cheap locally because I think I can repair it.... as a backup to the Ui 40....

So that is all I know about the cells. I can say for something that just electrolyzes water these things sure are over priced. The market must be a lot smaller than I thought because I don't know why these are not half the price they are now. I think the market is open to a good cheap unit, honestly. I was seriously considering buying a T-15 clone cell and building my own controller for it, but I decided not to because of liability and time constraints... The ones like mine are Linear power supplies and relays for freaks sake. This is why the edge to me was appealing.. the switching supply in the 21st century is sure tempting. I didn't go that way because of lack of third party options for the unit and the fact I think I can fix my unit with Hayward parts which will always be available if I had to.

End Soapbox.

You'll love having one though. You can have a bad couple of weeks and come back to the pool maybe only being a little positive on CSI which can be corrected immediately. I have had this happen and I am in the middle of this again... It's not set and forget but it's as close as you can come practically.

At 27K you will want the 60K unit unless you have a VSP and are willing to run close to 24/7. You can do that with the 40K/45K units (which if you look... the Ui 40 has almost the same output as the RJ-45+). If you don't mind running the pump I calculated over time that the 40K units are going to be cheaper to run but you will replace cells more often. And are they that much cheaper? No not really, with some exceptions the Circupool line is priced so the $ per lbs of chlorine over the lifetime is about the same--- except for a premium for the Core and RJ+'s.
 
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...you might honestly want to do the VSP pump first..... You will get immediate returns on your electric bill, whereas with the SWCG you are paying upfront for convenience (but a lot of it!) and the chlorine for the life of the unit. All past calculations claim it's cheaper overall than using bleach or pool liquid chlorine. I figured it was slightly when I bought mine. With the prices going up... maybe not....
 
VSPumps are not straight forward saving. Once you slow down the pump your power consumption reduces but so is pump efficiency due to pumping losses. You will end up running pump longer hours to compensate, if you still want to turn over pool water once a day.
When you model VSP and hydraulics of the swimming pool, it works out you better to install smaller pump that pump less water but operate at full RPM, while operating in it's max efficency. This way pump cost you less as it's smaller and not VSP model as well as you save on power.
Installing SWCG on the opposite hand have minimal negative effect on hydraulics but start saving money the moment it's turned on. However, when you consider cost time to service it, salt, electricity and replacement parts, ROI is closer to 5 years in metropolitan area, not 2 years like most people believe
 

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I am the kind of person who wonders "what you you automate on a pool" everything is super easy to do by hand in a minute or less but that's just me. I think more complex means more things to break!

I run my pump 24/7 like I did before a VS and my over all power bill dropped around 25%. I also have the Circupool Edge 40 and run it 24/7 on 1/4 power and it keeps my FC around 6.5 in a 28K pool. The Edge runs at lower power 24/7 vs on/off internal timer which I like.
But like others have said its worth it..My final straw was the last time I added pucks I twisted the lid and jumped back and the fumes still burned my eyes for 2 minutes and that can't be healthy.
 
This is a great discussion everyone. I truly appreciate all the opinions. In between these replies I was out in the shed pouring and spilling 12.5% bleach and getting super ****** off :)


I’m definitely not going to mess with my pump until I need to. It works fine, I overpaid for it since the idiot pool guy installed it right when we moved in (rookie pool owner mistake), and electricity is super cheap where we are ($0.09/KWH). I’m not concerned with electric savings for the most part if we’re talking dollars per year or even month

I like the cost of the EDGE-40, but worry I’d be pushing the limit of the system with only 40k gallons of capacity. Pentair feels like an expensive inkjet printer to me - hard to repair and you just need to scrap the whole thing when any part of it breaks.

The advantage of the RJ60 system is it’s currently priced at RJ45 + $4. I’ll do some research and see if I can find historical price data. While I’m not in an urgent situation to buy it, the sooner I get it the sooner I can benefit from the reliable FC levels and avoid bleach stains everywhere.
 
yubbie2 said:
This is a great discussion everyone. I truly appreciate all the opinions. In between these replies I was out in the shed pouring and spilling 12.5% bleach and getting super ****** off :)


I’m definitely not going to mess with my pump until I need to. It works fine, I overpaid for it since the idiot pool guy installed it right when we moved in (rookie pool owner mistake), and electricity is super cheap where we are ($0.09/KWH). I’m not concerned with electric savings for the most part if we’re talking dollars per year or even month

I like the cost of the EDGE-40, but worry I’d be pushing the limit of the system with only 40k gallons of capacity. Pentair feels like an expensive inkjet printer to me - hard to repair and you just need to scrap the whole thing when any part of it breaks.

The advantage of the RJ60 system is it’s currently priced at RJ45 + $4. I’ll do some research and see if I can find historical price data. While I’m not in an urgent situation to buy it, the sooner I get it the sooner I can benefit from the reliable FC levels and avoid bleach stains everywhere.
Click to expand...
I have a 28k pool and although I run my pump all day at 4psi I am at 2/8 bars and FC stays between 6 and 7.
When I installed it after a vit C treatment so CL was 0 with vit C and in 18 hours Wide open FC went to 12 :)
Better to over size but for 23k I think the Edge will handle it easily
 
Yo @yubbie2 ... this makes for an interesting discussion when we don't have to convince you that you have to have IT! I understand the not getting the VSP option. In my situation it would take 5 years to break even.. I'm going to wait until the old one breaks AND there are some utility company rebates.

I vote the RJ-60 from what I have read of others. I got the Hayward back when they were really the only game in town.. its nice have a way to just replace the cell when it goes...
markayash said:
I am the kind of person who wonders "what you you automate on a pool" everything is super easy to do by hand in a minute or less but that's just me. I think more complex means more things to break!
Click to expand...
Automation, we don't need no stinking Automation... All automation would do for me is save me from the 30ft walk to the pool to turn on the heater or check the SWG. I think I can afford that amount of exercise when I just spent the last 2 hours slothing about in my spa.
 
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mguzzy said:
Yo @yubbie2 ... this makes for an interesting discussion when we don't have to convince you that you have to have IT! I understand the not getting the VSP option. In my situation it would take 5 years to break even.. I'm going to wait until the old one breaks AND there are some utility company rebates.

I vote the RJ-60 from what I have read of others. I got the Hayward back when they were really the only game in town.. its nice have a way to just replace the cell when it goes...

Automation, we don't need no stinking Automation... All automation would do for me is save me from the 30ft walk to the pool to turn on the heater or check the SWG. I think I can afford that amount of exercise when I just spent the last 2 hours slothing about in my spa.
Click to expand...
The Rj-60 is nice but $1400 vs $915
Your call 100% but I like the Edge. I like the fact it generates 100% of the time at lower power. Runs cool and has no moving parts I know of
 
Both of these devices practically will have a three to five year payback, and honestly I think that is their lifespan in practical terms. But if you can just replace the cell, those typically are $250-350, and that means the second time you are saving real money... That is why I probably would skip the Pentair completely....

The SWCG is a super convenience feature tho...
 
Rattus Suffocatus said:
Both of these devices practically will have a three to five year payback, and honestly I think that is their lifespan in practical terms. But if you can just replace the cell, those typically are $250-350, and that means the second time you are saving real money... That is why I probably would skip the Pentair completely....

The SWCG is a super convenience feature tho...
Click to expand...
For price per dollar your Universal is the choice..
I was spending $150 a year on CL but what got me was the chlorinator would run out and I noticed it when the pool was cloudy..Then I had to buy a bunch of liquid and spend a week fixing it brushing etc..Was ready to fill it in
With the SWG I am hoping that never happens again!
 
Having a lid come off around a turn on the way home on a HASA Chlorine bottle (luckily in the old car and I had stuff in the car to immediately clean it up) will make you decide on doing the SWCG really quickly, agreed.
 
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