Help designing new pool mechanicals

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l00semarble

Member
Dec 10, 2023
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Costa Rica
Hello. I'm building a new custom home in Costa Rica on Pacific coast. The pool will have a water feature that spills into the main pool. My house is at 1,500ft elevation so pool can be a bit cool during part of the year so I am going to add some passive solar collectors.

I intend to use all Pentair and want to use the latest, greatest most energy efficient and most intelligent systems possible.

Goals/Questions:
  • Best Variable Speed Pump for pool. (Intelliflo3 VSF?)
  • Variable speed control of water feature to be able to control volume of waterfalls back into pool. I May want to change the flow for noise or other reasons depending on how we are enjoying house at any give time.
    • 2nd pump was the original thinking. What pump? Seems most water feature pumps are not variable speed. I guess normally these don't pump through the filter so are "low head". Is this what I want?
    • Possible to consider using just the one main pump and a variable valve to control water feature? Are the Intellicenter controlled valves just on/off or can they be partially opened by Intellicenter?
  • Thermostatic control of when water is routed through passive solar collectors. I'm sure a diversion valve can be controlled with temp sensor, right?
  • Full home automation integration with Home Assistant. I assume I want the Pentair IntelliCenter to do this though there are many IntelliCenter part numbers/versions.
  • 2 zones of lighting (main pool and water feature). Each separate control including color control. (Lights planned are Pentair Micro-Brite). This goes through IntelliCenter as well I think.
I started a draft schematic to just give a visual of what I am dealing with. Anybody want to take a stab at helping me spec components and complete a design? This is a bit above the ability of the providers I am working with in Costa Rica. I may source the gear in the USA and ship it down if I can find a Pentair dealer that wants to work with me to help spec system (yes I understand warranty will be voided.)

20231210_095302.jpg


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What is the length of the infinity edge?
Is the only water returning to the pool via the water feature? No return lines on the drawing.
Will the solar panels be located at the same elevation as the pool?
Distance from equipment to pool and any elevation change between the two?
What size plumbing will be used?
 
AQUA~HOLICS said:
What is the length of the infinity edge?
Click to expand...
55ft
AQUA~HOLICS said:
Is the only water returning to the pool via the water feature? No return lines on the drawing.
Click to expand...
No there are at least 2 returns to the main pool. I sketched one from the solar heaters but this is just a conceptual sketch to help you and others visualize what I have going on.
AQUA~HOLICS said:
Will the solar panels be located at the same elevation as the pool?
Click to expand...
No they are lower. House is built on side of mountain. Pool perched at edge of steep slope. They panels will be maybe 8-12ft below surface of water depending on how we build the racking. It is important that they are out of the view.
AQUA~HOLICS said:
Distance from equipment to pool and any elevation change between the two?
Click to expand...
the pump room is directly adjacent to pool under a sun deck. So like 6ft from the deep end.
AQUA~HOLICS said:
What size plumbing will be used?
Click to expand...
I think 2" but I'm double checking. I'm not there right now.


Thank you for the response. I'm interested to hear further thoughts.

This rendering is only about 80% accurate but if helpful to visual concept of pool and water feature.

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Pump: Pentair Intelliflo XF VSF
With a 55’ infinity edge you may need the extra HP, also the engineering of the catch basin will be critical in order for the correct operation.

More than 2 return line will be needed and placed in areas to minimize dead spots and increase water movement, some of which can be elevated by how the pool walls are designed below the water surface.
 
Some quick back of the envelope calculations suggest for a continuous weir over the overflow wall there is a lot of water required assuming a meniscus of 10 mm will calculate to about 2000 litres per minute or 528 US gallons per minute. However most vanishing edges dont run this fast. More to give some perspective.

It may be helpful to have the wall to the weir slope at about 78 degrees. This encourages the water to roll down the wall rather than drop over or off it, leading to a quieter experience.
 
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A 3/8" height should be about 8.26 gpm/ft x 55 feet = 454 gpm.

www.pentair.com

WhisperFloXF® VS 5HP Variable Speed Pump

The WhisperFloXF VS 5HP Commercial Pump is the first five-horsepower variable-speed pool pump that runs on single-phase or three-phase power.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com

A 1/4" height will require about 4.5 x 55 = 247.5 gpm.

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www.pentair.com

WhisperFloXF® VS 5HP Variable Speed Pump

The WhisperFloXF VS 5HP Commercial Pump is the first five-horsepower variable-speed pool pump that runs on single-phase or three-phase power.
www.pentair.com www.pentair.com
 

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DavidLast said:
I am less sure I like the concept of the solar lower than the pool. The solar needs to drain down when not working. Normally it drains down to the pool. Is the house roof not available?
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I am not saying you are wrong but out of curiosity why is it necessary for the solar to drain down when not in use? Just so water doesn't get stagnant? If I used them frequently would this matter? Obviously in my location freezing is not a concern.

The roof has a huge skylight in the center section and the side sections will have a solar water heater and the compressors for the mini-split air conds so I don't think we would have the necessary surface area up there.
 
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You want to keep the water velocity below 6 ft/sec on the suction and below 8 ft/sec on the pressure side of the pump.[7]

Pipe Size6 ft/sec8 ft/sec
1.5"38 GPM51 GPM
2"63 GPM84 GPM
2.590 GPM119 GPM
3.0"138 GPM184 GPM
4.0"235 GPM312 GPM

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l00semarble said:
I am not saying you are wrong but out of curiosity why is it necessary for the solar to drain down when not in use? Just so water doesn't get stagnant? If I used them frequently would this matter? Obviously in my location freezing is not a concern.

The roof has a huge skylight in the center section and the side sections will have a solar water heater and the compressors for the mini-split air conds so I don't think we would have the necessary surface area up there.
Click to expand...
I am concerned about water sitting it will likely become stagnant in the pipe work and this can lead to undesirable outcomes. In practical terms when the solar starts up again there will be an inrush of cold water to any bathers in the pool. It could be that it drains to waste if must install this way, when the unit is not running.
 
l00semarble said:
Why not the Intelliflo3?
Click to expand...
That can only get to about 150 GPM, which is about 150/55 = 2.73 gpm/foot, which will give you about 3/16" of lift over the weir.

That can work if the weir is perfectly level, but I would want the ability to go higher.

The suction and returns should be at least 4" each.

The Infinity pump should be separate with no filter.

The trough should have at least 6 main drains.

I would put 4 main drains going to the Infinity pump and 2 going to the filter pump.

You can do the drains in 3 sets of 2 as shown in the diagram below.


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You want to keep the water velocity below 6 ft/sec on the suction and below 8 ft/sec on the pressure side of the pump.[7]

Pipe Size6 ft/sec8 ft/sec
1.5"38 GPM51 GPM
2"63 GPM84 GPM
2.590 GPM119 GPM
3.0"138 GPM184 GPM
4.0"235 GPM312 GPM


1702396580858.png

Blue = Main Drains.
Green = 2.5" PVC pipe.
Red = 3" PVC pipe.
Purple = 4" PVC Pipe.

I would have the 3" PVC Pipes go into the pump room before T-ing them together in front of the pump.

I think that that pump takes a 3" fitting to the outside and you can T the lines together immediately before the pump and then use a Jandy 3" two way NeverLube valve before going into the pump.

So, you won't need 4" pipe.

Put 2 Jandy 3" Check valves after the pump.

For the line going to the filter pump, you will need 1 or 2 Jandy 3" Check valves on the line before the pump and before the lines tie to the other suction lines.
 

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You can do the plumbing like this so that both pumps can pull from all 6 drains.

You can use either 6 regular main drains or maybe 3 or 4 channel drains.

The check valves will prevent the water from being pulled backwards through the other pump.

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Blue = Main Drains.
Green = 2.5" PVC pipe.
Red = 3" PVC pipe.
Black dot = Check Valve.
Purple dot = Regular Jandy 3" two-way valve.
There will be (2) 3" Jandy NeverLube Check valves after the Infinity Pump and (2) 3" Jandy NeverLube Check valves before the Filter Pump Suction Manifold.
 
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If you use both pumps at the same time, you could get up to about 350 GPM, which would give you about 6.36 GPM per linear foot, which would give about 5/16" of lift.

That is 250 GPM from the 5 HP Infinity edge pump and about 100 GPM from the Filter Pump.

You would probably never want that much flow, but you could do it.

Each 3" line would have about 117 GPM and each main drain would have about 58 GPM.

For the return lines from the Infinity Pump to the pool, I would do (2) 3" lines.

One reason for the redundant independent lines is to allow you to close off a line if it ever develops a leak and you can still operate with the other line.



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