Hello from 1st time pool owner

[Kraiger51]

Hello all,

We went and did it and moved into a house with a pool. Looking forward to getting some pool time soon but first things first - I need to make sure the pool is operating optimally. Pool was built in 2000 and looks to be solid, with no leaks. There was some deferred maintenance, so in went a water-fill float and electric vacuum. The Aqualink remote panel wasn't working so I upgraded to iAqualink for control via tablet/phone. There are still some issues I need to contend with. Short list:

- install new cell to activate the Aquarite SWG system
- filter pressure is near 20psi, so my first time filter clean is upcoming.
- water looks clear and sparkling, but pool chemistry (via Aquachek test strips) appears to show the following (all values approximate):
Hardness: 500
TC: 10
FC: 20
PH: 7.2
TA: 40
CYA: 150-300

SWG system has been offline for quite a while and pucks had been used, a practice I stopped last week.

Went to Leslie's last week and sample analyzed as:
Hardness: 500
TC: 10
FC: 10
PH: 8
TA: 120
CYA: 150

I have a Taylor K-2006 test kit arriving this week, so looking to get a stable set of readings going forward.

I'm in Southern California, so with our water restrictions I'd rather not drain the pool, at least not until the time when I resurface the pool (in 1-3 years), so I want to do my best with the pool chemistry until that time. I will do more aggressive filter backwash to maximize fill water potential.

So, two requests for feedback:
1) My goal is to get the SWG working. I have a new cell arriving (old one is broken). I'm trying to get the pool balanced as much as possible prior but given the high CYA level, so I've been working on the pH levels primarily.
2) Every couple days green algae starts to form on the walls. I brush and can see the "dust-up." To combat this, I'm adding chlorine bleach. I'm wondering if an algae treatment would be useful at this stage. I'd like to SLAM, so I hope the Taylor kit will get me a more accurate CYA level to better judge how much chlorine I'll need.

So glad I came across TFP and appreciate thoughts and feedback.

 

[pabeader]

Welcome!

As you already know, without a good test kit, you are flying blind. Taking that into account, FC for SLAM should be around 40% of CYA level. That is why your algae keeps coming back. You aren't maintaining a high enough FC to kill it. But without the test kit you really don't know for sure.

 

[kimkats]

HI and welcome! You are going to LOVE it here! I am glad to hear you have the test kit on the way.

With you have some green showing it's head you might want to go ahead and order these refills:

TFTestkits.net

TFTestkits.net

TFTestkits.net

TFTestkits.net

These are the tests you will do the most for the SLAM you will need to do to clear that algae monster out. At least you do not have the Loc Ness Monster living in there!

Let us know as as you get and use your kit.

On the home page you will see a side bar (left side) that says "extended directions". This will help you do the tests.

Kim

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! Keep us updated and let us know if you have anymore questions.

 

[Kraiger51]

Thanks! Definitely need that test kit. I'm wondering how high the CYA is, to point me in the direction of how much bleach I'm going to be using.

Do you think any of this impacts my ability to get the SWG up and running? Or, should I take care of the SLAM first and then connect the SWG?

 

[domct203]

Thanks! Definitely need that test kit. I'm wondering how high the CYA is, to point me in the direction of how much bleach I'm going to be using.

Do you think any of this impacts my ability to get the SWG up and running? Or, should I take care of the SLAM first and then connect the SWG?

Welcome to TFP.

A SWG is designed to maintain a clean pool, and you should SLAM the pool using manual doses of liquid chlorine, aka bleach.

Here is the SLAM procedure:

How to SLAM your pool

If the pool $tore's CYA of 150ppm is accurate at all, you would need to raise to, and maintain a FC of 60ppm for the duration of your SLAM. In your 39K gallon pool, it would require almost 23 gallons of 8.25% bleach (thirty 96oz jugs) to go from 10ppm to 60ppm FC.

If your test kit reveals the same for CYA, you should really reconsider waiting on that water exchange, or look into Reverse Osmosis treatment. To lower a CYA of 150ppm to approx. 40ppm you would need to exchange 75% of your pool water (about 29K gallons) with fresh (no CYA) water.

Also, when FC is at or above 10ppm, the pH test will not be accurate, and read higher than it really is. Let your FC drop below 10ppm and get your pH to 7.2 prior to the SLAM.

You didn't show a test result for salt, do you know how much is in the pool?

 

[Kraiger51]

Thanks. That's a bunch of chlorine. Wonder if I'll get flagged for suspicious purchase buying so much of it

Salt level: When I went to Leslie's, they tested my water at 1000ppm salt level.

I received the test kit (K-2006) today. Here are the results:

CYA: 200+ (ugh)
FC: 32.5 ppm
CC: null (didn't change color when I added reagent - ran twice)
PH: 7.4
TA: it didn't change from green to red. It went from green to blue and then abruptly to yellow. Blue to yellow was at 10-11 drops => 100-110.

I realize that the easiest solution would be to drain, but with SoCal water restrictions, I'll have to check to see how feasible it is. The water looks really clear and clean, but the chemistry results show out of balance. At this stage, I think my plan will be:
- test CYA levels a few more times, to build confidence in the result.
- test FC daily. Don't add chlorine (from bleach) until levels drop to 10ppm. If today's FC result of 32.5 is real, I guess I'll be waiting a while...
- Once FC is down to 10ppm, test PH to manage to 7.2. I'll also test PH at various days, depending on the FC level.
- While I'm doing all the above, I'll do extended backwashing of the filters in a ant-like attempt to dilute the water.
- Once FC and PH are at ideal levels, I'll take several CYA measurements to determine chlorine target for the SLAM. In meantime, I'll keep combating the algae with brushing.

Thanks again to everyone for their feedback and support. It's a bit frustrating having to deal with this but at least the pool looks great. Plus, I'll have an opportunity to work on fixing various items that are installed but not functioning, like pool lights and heater.

 

[Swampwoman]

Welcome, Kraiger, and cheers to your new pool.
I find it a bit odd that the salt is so low when the cya is so high considering there was an swg on site. There must be a previous-owner story there

Let us know what you find out about draining. SWGs are great but they work best at TFP recc levels, eg 80 cya and running 4-6 FC. I'm a bit concerned that if you can't lower the CYA you'll have ongoing issues with optimal levels and operation time. SWGs are rated to add a specific "max" amount of FC in a 24-hour period. Too mch cya would make the recommended FC level of 4-6 at 80 ineffective at actual sanitation.

See the [fc/cya][/FC/cya] for reference.

But long-term trouble-free operation of swg will truly require that partial drain. If you can't, you may wish to consider having a Reverse Osmosis treatment done to reduce the cya...but you have to be algae-free for same. It might be worth checking into that.

 

[kimkats]

The TA test turning to yellow instead of red is due to the high FC. Treat the turning to yellow the same as if it turned to red and use that level.

You do have to balancing to do. I like the idea of Reverse Osmosis as stated above if at all possible.

What was your CH?

Kim

 

[domct203]

Wow, that is a very high CYA level. How did you get 200ppm? Did you use the extended test to get that number?

From the Extended CYA Test directions:

If your CYA level is 90 or higher, repeat the test adjusting the procedure as follows:

• Fill the mixing bottle to the lower mark with pool water.
• Continue filling the mixing bottle to the upper mark with tap water.
• Shake briefly to mix.
• Pour off half of the contents of the mixing bottle, so it is again filled to the lower mark.
• Continue the test normally from step 3, but multiply the final result by two.

When doing the CYA test, you need to be outside on a bright sunny day, keep your back to the sun and hold the comparator block by the top of the pH tube side at about waist level, and keep it in your shadow. The trick is to get as much indirect light into the tube as you can, without being directly in the sun to prevent glaring reflections. Remember, you can always pour the sample back into the mixing tube and do the test multiple times to confirm your readings.

With a TA of 110 and a pH of 7.4 I think I would hold off on letting FC drop. You are already seeing algae, we don't want to give it a chance to get out of control.

I highly recommend you address your CYA level with either water exchanges or RO treatment. Your minimum FC level is always 7.5% of your CYA level, you should never let your FC go below minimum. The recommended daily target for a manually chlorinated pool is 12-15% of your CYA. Seeing that you have algae, you should really SLAM the pool to eliminate it, but shock FC level needed to kill the algae is 40% of your CYA level.

FC / CYA Chart

Right now, if the CYA of 200ppm is correct, your minimum FC is 15ppm, and shock level for a SLAM is 80ppm. If that algae gets a chance to really bloom it will be extremely difficult and quite expensive to get rid of it.

You should focus on keeping the FC at 12-15% of your CYA while you address the CYA & get your SWG running. If RO treatment is not an option for you, keep doing multiple small drains and refills to start chipping away at the high CYA, maybe use the pool water for irrigation and use the irrigation water to add to the pool. You can also catch rainwater from your house gutters and use that. Immediately brush any algae you may see to expose it to the FC. If you keep finding algae spots increase FC to 20% of your CYA to help slow down it's reproduction while you are addressing CYA.

Once the SWG is running the daily target will be much easier to maintain as long as the algae stays at bay, and once we get the CYA under 100ppm it will be much easier and cost effective to eliminate any algae.

 

[Kraiger51]

Welcome, Kraiger, and cheers to your new pool.
I find it a bit odd that the salt is so low when the cya is so high considering there was an swg on site. There must be a previous-owner story there

Yup - the SWG was offline and not being used. The cell needed to be replaced. It was during this time, likely months, that pucks were used to chlorinate. I guess you could say the pool was pucked to death

- - - Updated - - -

The TA test turning to yellow instead of red is due to the high FC. Treat the turning to yellow the same as if it turned to red and use that level.

What was your CH?

CH, according to Leslie, was 500. Tap water was also tested and IIRC, was around 150.

Re: TA, Thanks for the info. I figured that with chemistry so unbalanced that some reagent tests will react differently vs. normal.

 

[Kraiger51]

Wow, that is a very high CYA level. How did you get 200ppm? Did you use the extended test to get that number?

I used the K-2006 test, both at normal and dilution level. The CYA is in excess of 200, since the diluted test (x2) didn't reach the 100 level. At that stage, I figured I have extremely high CYA.

I'm going to run another test later today on FC, pH and TA. I'm keen to start building a history of the pool chemistry with a consistent test kit and maintenance schedule.

It sounds like any kind of stable, long-term chemistry makeup of the pool will have to start with reducing CYA, so I'm going to do an ongoing process of partial drain and fill over the winter season to bring it down. During this process, I'll be monitoring the FC levels to keep it in the 12-15% range of CYA. My first ray of hope will come when I get the CYA level down to where I can actually see the result in the test...

In the interim, should I make any adjustments to the TA or pH?

Note: reason I'm not looking at doing a complete drain at this point is that I'd really like to look at resurfacing at the same time, plus pool deck and landscape work. Ideally, this work would all be started in the next 1-2 years, so my goal is to get the pool to manageable levels at this stage, knowing that I'll be doing a complete drain in the future and then I can start with a clean slate at that time.

 

[kimkats]

Let your FC get down to just under 10 then run the PH and TA test and adjust from there.

Kim

 

[domct203]

Be very careful if you let your FC drop below 10 to check pH & TA. You are already seeing algae, letting the FC drop below the 7.5% of CYA could let the algae get a good hold on the pool.

 

[xyz]

If your water and sewer rate determinations are like mine, draining and filling small amounts over the winter will maximize your water use, maximize your sewer rates, and maximize your expense. Here, they calculate your sewer by averaging dec, Jan, feb, and assuming you are not watering much. If it is the case in Irvine, you would be much better off draining 80% of it now and refilling. Look at your rates, I was surprised it only cost me ~175 bucks.

A friend did the reverse osmosis, and was thrilled with result.

 

[Kraiger51]

Thanks! I'll make sure to keep the chlorine at elevated levels until CYA is reduced.

I measured again today:
CYA 200+ (level was at the "CYA" text on the measure)
FC 29.5 ppm
pH 7.4

Water looks clear and algae was lightly forming on parts of steps.

Question: if I put the solar pool cover on, how would that affect the pool chemistry? In our sunny weather, I would estimate pool temp would increase from 70 degrees to 80+ degrees.