Heater won't fire

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S

snachs

0
Jul 19, 2015
23
West Chester, PA
First full year with pool. Learned so much here already I'm feeling very comfortable with the daily routine. Great weather here last week and we enjoyed the pool 5 days in a row. Used the heater to warm up the spa on 4 of those days and then on the 5th, fired it up and nothing. Went over to the heater and smelled gas. I assume the pilot didn't fire.

Before I call in the pros and drop tons of loot, I figured someone here might point me to something obvious and easy. Here are some pics of the equipment. It says not to light the pilot so I did nothing more then take photos.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!



IMG_2885.jpgIMG_2886.jpgIMG_2881.jpgIMG_2883.jpg
 
Where does it say to not light the pilot light? Newer heaters have an automatic pilot or lighting procedure. Older heaters you MUST light the pilot light manually. Looks like your model could have either set up. Do you know if it has electronic ignition? To me, it looks like a manual ignition valve, but it's very difficult to tell without a part number from the valve housing.
 
I see a lot of loose rust on the floor of the heater. My first inclination is that the burner tubes may need to be cleaned. If you are smelling gas, then the unit is trying to fire. However, it does not look like an electronic spark ignition unit (not real familiar with Raypacs though) If it is a standing pilot unit then you would not smell gas as the thermocouple will not let gas flow at all when the pilot is not lit.

We really need to figure out what type of ignition source this unit is. Paul may know more about this one than me.

Dan
 
This unit is a spark ignition thus a call for heat will send a signal to the ignitor to spark and light the unit. Do yo hear it sparking/clicking?

I see from the display your unit is in REM(remote) mode. Do you have automation attached to this to control the temp and the on/off?
 
This is an electronic unit (thin blue wire near pilot tube). Unfortunately, with the smell of gas, and the condition of that heater (pics). I cannot offer any advice other than to either replace, or call your local tech for service of the existing.

I would trust no advice given without actually being hands on here... or rather there.
 
Unless the manifold is rusted out on the unit, not sure where the smell of gas could be coming from. Is it possible that the manifold is rusted out on the end, maybe. Yes the unit looks rusted but no more so than many of the older units I look at daily.
 
Thanks for all the replies! It is indeed electronic from what I have read. I found the manual online from an older post here. I'll clean it all up this weekend and blow some air around the burner tubes to see if that does the trick. Beyond that, I think I'll just have to bite the bullet and call in the pros.
 
Update and follow-up questions.

I cleaned up the rust. When I banged on the pilot area gently, tons of rust fell out. I put the system mode in service so I could turn it on outside and listen for clicking and indeed after a few attempts at cleaning - it fired up!

Question - The arrows in the photo here point to burner tubes that are hanging down in the back. There were lots. I managed to get a few back in place but many seem to not have the shelf to support them (rusted out) The one on the right actually fell down completley when I was tinkering but I got the front anchored up again.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.hipchat.com/514/388047/9wTmOXfPLytRD37/upload.jpg

Am I putting my family at danger? I realize this heater will need to go but since I got er working again, I'd love to delay things till the next problem but of course not if I am putting people at danger or if I am risking a significantly larger issue.

Thanks as always for all the amazing advice here!
 

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One thing i noticed while leering at your pictures is that there seems to be quite a bit of rust, particularly below the firebox area. Which would indicate either condensate, or a leak. You would be able to identify a leak by a well defined rust trail leading away from under the heater.

You can get condensate if you are heating through the "wet zone" regularly. The wet zone is usually about a handful of degrees where the exchanger tubes will sweat real acidic water. The exact temperature and range at which it starts and ends is going to vary with respect to the dew point at that time. This usually only happens once a year, when you initially begin to heat your pool for the season. The more impatient you are, the more likely you will get it. When i say impatient, i mean if you simply must heat your pool when the water is still 60 degrees. If you can wait till it naturally, or solar heats to 75-80 degrees, you may avoid the wet. Now having said that, getting back to regularly heating through the wet zone would mean you are the type that wants to swim every weekend, but you dont want to heat the pool during the week. IOW, not maintaining the water temp all week. So you begin to heat and wet, every Friday, then the water cools off Sun through Fri. Not very practical, or likely.

The other way you can have problems with rust is if your venting is incorrect. Incorrect venting causes the heater to run hot or just plain over heat. This seems to make the sheet metal (in my experience) more susceptible to rust.

If possible, hire a guy who is sharp on venting as well as installs. Ask him if there seems to be anything out of the ordinary with your PRESENT INSTALL, not necessarily your PRESENT HEATER with respect to venting AND gas line size/run.
 
What I have found is that if you add a manual bypass and open it more in the cooler times you will get less condensation off of the heat exchangers. I do see lots of these older units with rust on the bottoms like this as it is common with the older units. The newer units have a stainless steel bottom plate on that eliminates them rusting thru but still the cause is the condensation.

The other thing most people don't also do is once a year pull off the pagoda top and pull out leaves and what not that has gotten inside and is sitting on top of the heat exchanger. Cleaning this can prevent many things.

These units are made very well and the venting is fairly adequate for what they do. Now if you get into a situation where you are installing indoors or if you have the issue of down draft, then you would want to consider changing/adding a stack or vent line for indoor use. However, I very rarely see or install the wind stacks on these units as they are not very prone to down drafts.
 
Here is a pic of the whole equipment pad. https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.hipchat.com/514/388047/edLPeQTfMb9VO3U/upload.jpg

I just moved in 11 months ago so no history from me using it much. I am more of the fire it up for a few hours vs maintain heat type. Mostly because we fire up the hot tub vs heat the whole pool. The pool is full sun and sits between 77-80 now and I believe got close to 83 on it's own later in the summer.

I found all the paperwork from the previous pool owner and it appears as if all this equipment is original to the install in 2001 (I need to update my signature) I don't think they were around much the last few years to use or maintain this either. I'm constantly lowering my Ph so I wonder if they just used automated chlorine and ignored other numbers for quite some time. Anyhow - 15 years ain't bad from what I read for the life of the heater.

The landscaping is all very mature but I keep on top of it pruning back the hedges to avoid a fire hazard and choking off the air. I'm also leaning towards replacing it with the current model of the Raypak - we really only heat the pool for parties but love having the hot tub heat up in 15 minutes flat. I am tempted to consider a heat pump or solar because it would be nice to have the pool consistently a few degrees warmer but I believe I'd lose the hot tub speed heat that I enjoy.

So the current thinking is replace with the Raypak and consider adding solar to the system down the road. I'm also trying to think about the whole equipment pad since I suspect I'll be replacing the pump soon as well - it's a single speed. I'm not sure how filters work - I replaced the filters themselves and the rest seems like just basic housing, so I assume that unit can last for quite some time more... We basically want to make sure that whatever we do today, we'll be happy with for 15 years and won't preclude us from doing a logical next step in the coming years as other equipment dies.

My research is limited to the past few days though so I'm open to any advice. I'm reading old threads here as much as I can...
 
wait...why would the need to replace the entire unit?? If the control system is working, and there are no water leaks in the water fins..couldn't they pull out the old burner/manifold and replace with a new one? I know this part is TOTALLY replaceable on a Hayward (I replaced one)..and it's good as new. I don't know much about the Raypaks, but I'd assume the manifolds are replaceable too.
 
If the bottom is rusted out then you have no place to secure the burner tray and the holes most likely go all the way thru and you now you do not have a totally enclosed cabinet. So if something happened, you could have flames escape the unit and possibly cause a fire. Plus the ignitor assembly also needs to be replaced.

But if someone wants to put $500+ into a 10 year old unit and "maybe" get another year, have at it. In this case with a rusted out floor panel, I wouldn't advise it. You would be better off saving that money and investing it into a new unit.
 

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