Glacier Pool Coolers vs Heat Pump Chiller - Help me decide

[Neoex]

I got the PDF for 2020, take a look!

AUTOMATION OPERATION
Turn the pool pump on. Turn the pool cooler on. Let the automated actuator on the T-fitting on the inlet side to the cooler open to let water in the unit. Let the pool cooler sump pump turn on and start draining the basin to fill the out put line with water. Then open the actuator on the suction side to let the water into the pump to prevent cavitation. Make sure you do not set the actuators. Let them open and close all the way to operate the cooler on and off. The ball valves at the unit are set at there positions permanently. Pool owner never touches the valves at the unit.

Ok so that answers my question on the IntelliValve, full open , but it seems to say "delay" opening the suction side, can I program like a 30 second wait for that?

 

[Flybriz]

Let me know if you ordered a 210, I found one in Tulsa Used for a helluva price, its just too big for my application both in gallons and the side of my house

Hey thanks! I ordered the smallest one - I’m only working with around 8,500 gallons here and limited space as well.

 

[Flybriz]

One more item of interest - The manual doesn't get too specific on timing, but it does say that you need to open up the intake valve for a bit BEFORE opening the outflow valve for the Glacier https://images.inyopools.com/cloud/documents/newer-glacier-pool-chiller-manual.pdf. Opening them at the same time can result in air getting into your system. On the forums here, Jim suggested that I set the valves to two different schedules and open them at different times. That's a fantastic idea, but the OCD part of me wants one-touch operation so I'm going to integrate an "on delay" relay for the return valve actuator: Macromatic TR-50228-10 $33.09 Time Delay Relay, 24VAC/DC, 10A, DPDT, 2VA | Zoro.com

Edit: The manual DOES get specific on timing, or at least the newer version of the manual does. Looks like they need a 30 second delay to allow the basin to fill a bit.

Edit #2: I must not be fully awake this morning, or my page isn't refreshing fast enough. I just now saw above where you asked about the delay, Neoex. Yeah, that concerns me as well, but I'm hoping I can put this whole thing on a single feature circuit, and trigger two relays. One with an immediate "ON" for the valve going into the Glacier, and the second one 30 seconds later (using the aftermarket delay relay) to power up the Glacier and open the return valve. And I can't say I fully understand why for existing installs, this gets plumbed right back into the skimmer line instead of returning to the pool. Looks to me like there would be certain percentage of the water that just stays in that loop. I guess the pump mixes it enough and sends part back into the Glacier and part back into the pool.

 

[Neoex]

I can't say I fully understand why for existing installs, this gets plumbed right back into the skimmer line instead of returning to the pool. Looks to me like there would be certain percentage of the water that just stays in that loop. I guess the pump mixes it enough and sends part back into the Glacier and part back into the pool.

I thought this EXACT thing.


Here is the exert from the install guide

4. FOURTH STEP- ELECTRICAL The Glacier Pool Cooler is adaptable and can be automated with ALL systems. Installation of a Glacier Cooler on a Pentair, Jandy, Hayward or a Compool is virtually the same. You need two open relays to make it work. First, find an open relay which will be feeding the cooler and the inlet automated valve together on this relay.The relay has 4 screws 2 lines and 2 loads as follows from left to right....Line1 Load1 Line2 Load2. Use one of the Loads as your HOT for the Cooler and the other load 2 for the actuator. This turns on and opens the automated valve and at the same time it activates the power to the pool cooler. Ground and Neutral tie into the Grounding terminal. NEXT, find another open relay to connect in the second automated valve ( this is the valve at the T-fitting at the suction side of the pump). Repeat steps above for connecting. This valve needs to open up after the first aux. relay opens. ( Failure to do so, will cause air in the lines and cause cavitation of the pool pump ). Each relay has a plug that must be plugged into an open Aux female socket to allow control through the automated system. When using actuators, you will need (Factory recommends one actuator per valve actuator control)

@MyAZPool what are your thoughts on the delay. I would like to have this scheduled, and then under the features be able to toggle "Chiller" ON (if I cannot get the auto temprature shindig going

Also could i hook this up as a substitution for this?(I found in the Pentair Documentation)
Solar Nocturnal Cooling ON/OFF: ON: Provides automatic nocturnal (nighttime) cooling during night time hours for pools that overheat in hot climates. When enabled, circulates relatively warmer pool water to the collector panels when the collector temperature and the pool temperature is hotter than the high limit setting. This process cools the pool water over time. Circulation will stop when the collector temperature is 3 degrees (default) less than the pool temperature or the pool temperature is cooler than the high limit setting.

EDIT:
I got a response from glacier see below

The Pentair ez - touch and Hayward omnilogic systems have a set point setting for temperature heating and cooling sensor. Not sure about the intellicenter what it’s capable of. I know it’s a new product from Pentair. Check with your Pentair rep.

Customer Service

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 5:32 AM wrote:
Thank you for the manual I was able to review it yesterday. I have the following question:
Now if your pool is automated our pool cooler can integrate into your system and a temperature range can be set through your automated system.

YOU MAY ALSO CONTACT OUR TECHNICAL SERVICE DEPARTMENT BY EMAILING [email protected]

Could you provide the setup for Pentair Intellicenter for this? All I could think is to do a Macro (Scheduled)

Regards

 

[MyAZPool]

I thought this EXACT thing.


Here is the exert from the install guide


@MyAZPool what are your thoughts on the delay. I would like to have this scheduled, and then under the features be able to toggle "Chiller" ON (if I cannot get the auto temprature shindig going

Also could i hook this up as a substitution for this?(I found in the Pentair Documentation)
Solar Nocturnal Cooling ON/OFF: ON: Provides automatic nocturnal (nighttime) cooling during night time hours for pools that overheat in hot climates. When enabled, circulates relatively warmer pool water to the collector panels when the collector temperature and the pool temperature is hotter than the high limit setting. This process cools the pool water over time. Circulation will stop when the collector temperature is 3 degrees (default) less than the pool temperature or the pool temperature is cooler than the high limit setting.

Neoex
A few thoughts
1. I perused the manual. There is no way to cycle the chiller on or off based on temperature (such as a fireman's switch does for a heater), that I can see. Maybe I'm missing something.
2. Whether the chiller is energized or not and the chiller bypass valve is open or not, looks to be solely based on manual user input to the system or Circuit Group (macro) scheduling.
3. I would wire the chiller to the load side of an available relay.
4. I would install a jumper wire from the load side of the Filter Pump Relay to the Line Side of the Chiller Relay. This will prevent the chiller from ever being energized without the pump running. Take a look at this post for more detailed information on jumpered relays: Jumpered Relays.
5. Now we have to do the setup config/programming.
Navigate to SETTINGS >SYSTEM CONFIGURATION > CIRCUITS. Then name the applicable Aux Circuit whatever to identify that AUX circuit/Power Relay as your chiller circuit. (In the example, I called the circuit CHILLER, and Iwill be giving other examples here but you can use whatever names you want that make sense for you). Ensure the checkbox - "Show as Feature" is checked.


6. Then scroll down to "ADD FEATURE CIRCUIT" and create a feature circuit for your chiller bypass valve.


7. Next, navigate to your right to OTHER EQUIPMENT > PANEL 1 - VALVES. Assuming that you connected the bypass valve actuator to Valve A on the mothercard, click on VALVE A. Click on the Circuit pull-down menu and select "Chiller".



8. Navigate back to SETTINGS > CIRCUITS and scroll down to CIRCUIT GROUPS and click on it to expand the window. Click on ADD CIRCUIT GROUP. Name the circuit group. In the example I called it Chill. Now, click ADD CIRCUIT and select the Chiller Aux Circuit. Click on ADD CIRCUIT again and select valve A FEATURE CIRCUIT.



It should resemble the example below. Click SAVE.


Lastly, create a schedule for your "CHILL" Circuit Group Macro. Pretty sure you know how that works but if you have any questions, let me know.

Okay, lastly, in my feeble mind, most of the plumbing illustrations in the chiller manual regarding water flow, make no sense to me. Especially the illustrations for existing pool setups. But I'm pretty dense so maybe that's the problem. Guess the installer will know about it.

But I hope the IntelliCenter setup that I have illustrated for you helps you out a bit.
r.

 

[ajw22]

One of the problems reported with the UltraTemp in chiller mode is:

When in chiller mode Pentair forgot to link the temperature differential up to the chiller portion. So if you have a chiller set point of 87 degrees, and your temperature bounces back and forth between 88 and 87 degrees - your fan will cycle on/off, on/off, on/off until the temperature is a constant 87 degrees. That will eventually burn the fan motor up.

If the automation has the chiller cycling up and down around the chiller set point it is not good for the chiller.

 

[Neoex]

So you dont think I could "repurpose a heat type like Hybrid/UltraTemp/Solar" and add this for Cooling? also thank you so much for those detailed screenshots, Ive never even seen that interface it must be a web interface ill have to find out how to attach to my system, does this take into account the second return valve that needs to open approx 30sec- 1 minute after the feed valve is opened

 

[MyAZPool]

One of the problems reported with the UltraTemp in chiller mode is:

When in chiller mode Pentair forgot to link the temperature differential up to the chiller portion. So if you have a chiller set point of 87 degrees, and your temperature bounces back and forth between 88 and 87 degrees - your fan will cycle on/off, on/off, on/off until the temperature is a constant 87 degrees. That will eventually burn the fan motor up.

If the automation has the chiller cycling up and down around the chiller set point it is not good for the chiller.

Allen,
Exactly. It is happening to another user here. That issue is shown in firmware V1.046 to be addressed and corrected (we'll see). The diff temp buttons will be replaced with +/- buttons in the Ultra-Temp setup screen.
r.

 

[MyAZPool]

So you dont think I could "repurpose a heat type like Hybrid/UltraTemp/Solar" and add this for Cooling? also thank you so much for those detailed screenshots, Ive never even seen that interface it must be a web interface ill have to find out how to attach to my system, does this take into account the second return valve that needs to open approx 30sec- 1 minute after the feed valve is opened

No, but you could add a second actuator and the same principles that I outlined would apply. I would try to setup a valve delay, but I have never found those to work that good, honestly. See if @ajw22 can look at those plumbing diagrams in the manual and see if they make sense to him. He's smarter than I am. .
r.
EDIT. Yea, you definitely need to setup your web client for setup and programming configurations. Using a mobile app is functional but not very user friendly for doing the above. Also, if you need any help with the IntelliCenter web client setup, let me know. Just go to IntelliCenter and go from there. It's super easy...

 

[Neoex]

FWIW i am on V1.040 I hit the update firmware from my intellicenter, it just sat there for 20 minutes and said please wait nothing ever happened

 

[MyAZPool]

FWIW i am on V1.040 I hit the update firmware from my intellicenter, it just sat there for 20 minutes and said please wait nothing ever happened

Anything past v1.040 has not been released to the public yet.
r.

 

[Neoex]

I have ordered mine, I will keep this thread updated as a documentary of the process, then hopefully others who want to go this route with Pentair will have a documented solution

 

[Neoex]

I got mine installed yesterday. Some *notes*

My system is a flooded systems (pool equipment is below water line)

I hooked both the Intellivalves up on the feed/return (VALVE A/VALVE B)from the chiller and its activated as a Feature. I scheduled the feature to turn on at SUNSET and off at 7:00AM. Giving me about 10-12 hours of run time.

Tuning the ball valves:
Intake/Feed side: The documentation says approx 2 o'clock but mine ended up being 2:45 ( 3o'clock being closed). If i opened anymore the pressure would make the wand arms "run", got it slowed down with basically the least amount I could open it.

Exit/Return side: The way this works is you want the return to be closed off to where the water is slowly rising in the basin. if its open to much it will start sucking air. The basin will slowly fill all the way up. almost to the point you think its going to overflow, but the float kicks on the sump pump, and it forces it into the Exit/Return (suction of the pool), now the water is low and slowly starts building up again, and it repeats.

The instructions say Open feed valve and turn power on to the Chiller and then after "some time" open the return valve. I did them all at the same time, and I saw some air hit the pump but nothing that would be of any concern, not even close to cavitation. Not sure if this has to do with my system being flooded. But there was no real concern about actuating the valves and turning the power on all at the same time. I am not sure if I can program a small delay on the return valve inside of Intellicenter or not? @MyAZPool ? can i?


No numbers on cooling yet, will document temp at end of day and wake up temp tomorrow

 

[MyAZPool]

The instructions say Open feed valve and turn power on to the Chiller and then after "some time" open the return valve. I did them all at the same time, and I saw some air hit the pump but nothing that would be of any concern, not even close to cavitation. Not sure if this has to do with my system being flooded. But there was no real concern about actuating the valves and turning the power on all at the same time. I am not sure if I can program a small delay on the return valve inside of Intellicenter or not? @MyAZPool ? can i?

Neoex
I don't know of anyway to do that currently. You can navigate to SETTINGS > SYSTEM CONFIGURATIONS > GENERAL SETTINGS and scroll down to ADVANCED SETTINGS, and insure the VALVE DELAY option is checked.

I don't find that option to be very effective or all that useful but at least try it out.
r.

 

[MyAZPool]

The instructions say Open feed valve and turn power on to the Chiller and then after "some time" open the return valve. I did them all at the same time, and I saw some air hit the pump but nothing that would be of any concern, not even close to cavitation. Not sure if this has to do with my system being flooded. But there was no real concern about actuating the valves and turning the power on all at the same time. I am not sure if I can program a small delay on the return valve inside of Intellicenter or not? @MyAZPool ? can i?

Neoex
After I got to thinking about this, I don't think the above will help out but here is another possible workaround.
This will only work with establishing and using schedules to "bake in" delays between valves (I think that is what you are trying to do).
Create a schedule to activate valve 1 feature circuit. Lets say at 0700. And off whenever.
Then create a schedule say x minutes later to activate the second valve feature circuit. And off whenever.
Then a third schedule say x minutes later to activate a pump speed feature circuit. And off whenever. This might have to be a CIRCUIT GROUP (macro) because you will also probably need to activate the POOL circuit as well.

Creating "delays" between those circuit schedules might just work out for you.

This cannot of course be used to implement what you are trying to do in a "manual" or "user-activated" mode.

Try that out in your scenario.
r.

 

[rphpool]

I hope you guys get this to work via the automation. I have a ET8 and would like a chiller also. Houston is 95-100 degrees and my 8500 gallon pool is 92. Looks like what is in post #35 might work for me.

 

[Neoex]

Ran for 11 hours took my pool from 83 to 80 over night, seems like it did nothing? i would think just the cooler night air would bring it down 3. However the true test will be after a hot day when the water is 90+ if it can get it back to the low 80s ill be satisfied. I enjoy swimming 84-86 depending on how hot it is outside and sun/cloud cover

 

[jark87]

I’ve had a Glacier for around 5 years and it works great! I’m in the Dallas area and current water temp is low 80s, even at the hottest part of the day. It wasn’t unusual for water temp to reach mid-90s prior to Glacier installation.

In regards to automation, I had the installer the circuit for a dedicated spa light, as I had no reason to have spa light independent from pool lights. I have the pump programmed to start at 3am and the chiller at 3:15am. Works for me and keeps pool cool all summer long, but there’s no temp control. Upon initial startup each year, I manually open the valve to fill the basin, as I recall something in the instructions about that. I also have to adjust the flow valve to make sure the wands spin at a “fast walk” speed.

I also start up the chiller each year when I pull the cover off - usually early April. Yes, water temp is in the 60s at this point, but I’ve found that if I get ahead of the high temps, the chiller works better. I’ve never been able to get 10-15 degree drops in temp overnight.

Last, get yourself a tarp and a couple of bungee cords to cover the chiller during winter, especially if you have trees nearby. Mine is surrounded by mature trees, which is great for shade and cooling effects, but cleaning out the basin is a PITA.

 

[jark87]

One other note - I’ve found that I max out SWCG at 35% vs. 80% prior to Glacier. It’s not just running the pump longer, as I was running the same times when I tried the PVC misters, which really didn’t work for me.

 

[Neoex]

Saturday I left it running all day, the pool never got above 86, the temp was 100 degrees with a heat index of 115. So this is TOTALLY acceptable. I left it running until this morning, the water was 79. My arms are a "walking" I wonder if I should open the feed valve a little more to get a little more flow to get my arms to "run". When we were tuning it, the water would splash out of the sides of the basin by the plastic covers (not the top) so I slowed them down. My pool is fairly small, I was expecting more than a 5-7 degree drop, but to be honest if this thing can keep me in the mid 80s, I don't really care other than the pool being enjoyable.