Glacier Pool Coolers vs Heat Pump Chiller - Help me decide

[Neoex]

So this is the first summer we have had our pool. (stats in signature) Already in early June our water is up to 93 degrees . I attribute it to the high surface area vs depth of the pool and ultimately the amount of sun it gets. I keep my waterfalls running 24 hours a day to try and keep it cool, but over night my pool only cooled to 89 degrees .

I'm not constrained by size we build extra room on the pad with the potential for a chiller when we built the pool. I have a 100amp circuit to my pad as well. I dont need any heater function because I have a natural gas heater for my hot tub and it can heat the pool extremely quickly

I am looking at 2 options:
Aqua Cal - (TC500) Heat Pump options (cool only) -

Pros: Smaller footprint, Integration into Pentair Intellcenter​

Cons: slightly more expensive, seems like it would REALLY hammer the electricity bill. 40amps of power​

​

Glacier Pool (GPC25)

Pros: cheaper cost, cheaper operating cost (dramatically from power consumption)​

Cons: unit is larger​

​

​

They both claim they work better than the other guy in "humid" conditions, which in Tulsa, Oklahoma it is fair to be considered humid. My concerns are cooling performance and noise. I feel confident the heat pump options would be just as noisy as my 5 ton ac unit which is on the same portion of the house. But how loud is the Glacier Pool unit? I ultimately want to be considerate of my neighbors whos outdoor area backs up to my fence and not create an additional nuisance for them. Also I would without a doubt want to control it through my Pentair Intellicenter, so integration into Intellicenter is a MUST, but have not been able to find anything for the Glacier

sidenote: I really don't want to add the PVC pipe sprinklers to my jets purely from an aesthetic point of view

Anyone have any insight or suggestions?

 

[ajw22]

Since you already have a heater getting a HP just for the chiller function seems overkill.

The Glacier Pool cannot be noiser then the HP. It basically does the same thing as the HP chiller function with a fan running air over a cool fluid. As long as the water splatter or misting is not a problem I think the Glacier is the answer for you.

 

[Neoex]

Thanks! Maybe someone on TFP has a glacier integrated into IntelliCenter, I would like to know how it all fits together

 

[ajw22]

Thanks! Maybe someone on TFP has a glacier integrated into IntelliCenter, I would like to know how it all fits together

@MyAZPool any insights on that?

 

[MyAZPool]

@MyAZPool any insights on that?

Allen,
According to the specs listed on the website, the glacier only draws an average of 8 amps, so it certainly can be connected to and controlled via a power relay. That means that an IntelliValve chiller bypass valve and the relay can be grouped in a macro, so that the valve will open and the cooler will energize when that macro (circuit group) is activated.
So no problem activating it with user intervention.

Now the big question is, can it be done automatically without user intervention so that once the water reaches a certain "set-point" temperature, it kicks on and then kicks off after the water cools to another set-point. I see how the aqua-cal does it, but it can be setup to be configured to the RS-485 bus through the use of a "smart bus controller".

The IntelliCenter processor certainly has the logic capability for this, but I don't believe that any consideration for a non-hp chiller has been programmed into the firmware.

Recommend that the OP call Glacier and speak with their tech support and ask them if they have made any considerations for connectivity/control via Pentair Automation Systems.
r.

 

[Neoex]

Thanks this is EXACTLY the information I was looking for, of course they say "Yes we integrate with Pentair" but I am interested in the details of exactly what you described is it automated set points like my PentairNG heater? or is it just a manual toggle I have to click on

I found this on Glacier's website but would like some details

HOW DO I CONTROL THE TEMPERATURE OF MY POOL?
Our residential coolers do not come with thermostat controls. Cooling is determined by the run time of your pool pump. If it’s too cold, cut back your hours…if it’s not cool enough, run your pump longer. Now if your pool is automated our pool cooler can integrate into your system and a temperature range can be set through your automated system.

 

[MyAZPool]

Thanks this is EXACTLY the information I was looking for, of course they say "Yes we integrate with Pentair" but I am interested in the details of exactly what you described is it automated set points like my PentairNG heater? or is it just a manual toggle I have to click on

I found this on Glacier's website but would like some details

Neoex
Yes, I agree. I too, would dig a little deeper as well and get the details.
I used to hate it when I would ask questions about this or that to superiors or trainers at work and would get an answer such as "Don't worry about it. It works good and lasts a long time". That answer just never worked for me.
Thanks...
r.

 

[Neoex]

The local rep I found in Tulsa, OK says no automation based on temperature, you can just set a schedule on the valve to open and feed the chiller, based on time. I am going to call them directly and see what answer I get

 

[Neoex]

Glacier says I can set it to turn off based off temprature. @MyAZPool do you what relay;s i would need to buy for this to connect it into intellicenter, I am trying to have all the parts ready to go for the service guy.

So far i have the GPC-25 and 2 Pentair Intellivalves,

 

[MyAZPool]

Glacier says I can set it to turn off based off temprature. @MyAZPool do you what relay;s i would need to buy for this to connect it into intellicenter, I am trying to have all the parts ready to go for the service guy.

So far i have the GPC-25 and 2 Pentair Intellivalves,

Neoex
Well, looking through the GPC OPERATOR INSTRUCTIONS, INSTALLATION AND SERVICE MANUAL, I don't really see how that is done. According to the manual, it states -
CONTROL THE TEMPERATURE OF MY POOL
Our residential coolers do not come with thermostat controls. Cooling is determined by the run time of your pool pump. If it’s too cold, cut back your hours. If it’s not cool enough, run your pump longer. Now if your pool is automated our pool cooler can integrate into your system and a temperature range can be set through your automated system. (that is all it says)

So, after reading that and coming away with more questions than answers, curiosity got the best of me and I gave them (Glacier) a call. But unfortunately, I was headed off at the pass by a "Call Intake Center", who begrudgingly stated that she would pass the message along. Hopefully, they will give me a call back and I can get the specific answers to my questions (because I am understandably curious).

However, I can only assume that they want you to connect it to the RS-485 bus via a comm port similar to the UltraTemp (that's an assumption because it doesn't say that in the manual). If so, this would be done in similar fashion with the instructions found on pp31 of the

IntelliCenter Automation System for Pool and Spa Installation Guide

I was looking for "pin-out" instructions in the manual but again. NONE. I would guess that once your IntelliCenter cools to a preset temperature based on the pool temperature sensor connected to your IntelliCenter, that it would cut power to the cooler just like a fireman's switch works but again, I can't tell from information in the manual or from the website. I assume that you are having this installed by an authorized dealer/installer? If so, I can only assume that they know.

What model of IntelliCenter are you operating (i5PS, i8PS or i10PS)? And do you have any spare power relays? If you have no spare power relays, it may not be as simple as just adding another power relay. You would also need to have the correct daughter card (that is why I am asking what model of IntelliCenter you have).

Are you planning on installing a 3-way chiller bypass valve per the manual or will the installer be doing that? Are you planning on automating that valve? If you only have 2 IntelliValves currently, than you can add two more without having to add a valve expansion module, so that's good.
Sorry if I have more questions than answers at this point.
Get back, as I am very curious how this chiller is integrated with your automation and hopefully I receive a call from a techie at Glacier (if they'll talk with me).
Thanks...
r.

 

[Neoex]

Wow!Man thank you!!! i appreciate your help`, their techie guy called me back within 24 hours, I think i have the i8ps in my ciruits i have
Pool
Spa
AUX 1
AUX 2
AUX 3
AUX 4
AUX 5
AUX 6
AUX 7

This seems like 9?

And no the authorized installer was not interested unless I paid him an additional $1,400 on top of the the price I bought it for, just for the equipment. and then wanted $1,000 to install it.

Currnetly my setup has 2 IntelliValves, so yes I would want to put another Intellivalve on after my filter as in the diagram labeled:

AUTOMATING EXISTING POOL SET-UP


So my thought was when temp gets to XX(hot) it moves the Intellivalve after the filter to like bleed some?(not sure, how much) water off to the chiller. at the same time it powers on the chiller, and it opens the return Intellivalve to allow it to dump water into the skimmer/suction line.. I am confused on "how open" the valve should be after the filter, it seems to need good pressure to power the unit but it also seems to only take in so much water at a time

 

[MyAZPool]

Neoex
Got that call back. Don't know what your experience was,

Wow!Man thank you!!! i appreciate your help`, their techie guy called me back within 24 hours, I think i have the i8ps in my ciruits i have
Pool
Spa
AUX 1
AUX 2
AUX 3
AUX 4
AUX 5
AUX 6
AUX 7

This seems like 9?

Okay, no - You have a an i8PS (I say ps because you have a spa). You got your power relays mixed up a little bit but no worries. It's 8. How many of those 8 are actually in use? That's my question.
So, yea. Just got a call back from someone there. I don't know what your experience was but mine was not pleasurable. He treated me like someone that didn't know the difference between a pump and a relay. And in the end, his remark was "You know what dude. Why don't you just buy a Pentair heat pump. You'll enjoy it". I don't think he liked my detailed and specific questions and that I would not accept his "non-informative" answers as gospel.
He was more of a salesman than anything and didn't know squat about Pentair Automation Systems and how they work.
One thing I gleaned was that they have not posted any current manuals online and he told me there is much more information on connectivity in the newer manuals that came with the unit.
r.

 

[Flybriz]

Hi Neoex, I’m in Tulsa and just ordered a Glacier over the weekend. June has certainly started off with a bang here, hasn’t it? It hasn’t shipped yet, but I found two reviews (on TFP, I believe) from others in Tulsa and they give it rave reviews... cooking their pool 8-10 degrees overnight in the middle of summer. Also, I’m told it’s about as loud as a pool pump. I’m integrating it with my EasyTouch, and I figure that the amount of cooling each night will be semi predictable. So, my plan is to just set a schedule to run X hours a night to bring the pool down to the low 80’s by morning - and adjust periodically as needed. If I get it installed before you pull the trigger, you are welcome to come by and have a look!

 

[Bvacchiano]

I have a Glacier Chiller and I love it. Takes my pool water from 92 to 83 ballpark in summer. I run mine during the day for 12 hours (initially run the first 3-4 days at night as well to start the initial chilling process). I wouldn’t put it near your bedroom window. It is reasonably loud.One is also tied into my Pentair automation so I can control it from my phone and also schedule it to run on its own. Also, I never notice a real change on my electric bill. Remember it’s basically a big fan.

 

[Neoex]

I have a Glacier Chiller and I love it. Takes my pool water from 92 to 83 ballpark in summer. I run mine during the day for 12 hours (initially run the first 3-4 days at night as well to start the initial chilling process). I wouldn’t put it near your bedroom window. It is reasonably loud.One is also tied into my Pentair automation so I can control it from my phone and also schedule it to run on its own. Also, I never notice a real change on my electric bill. Remember it’s basically a big fan.

Yeah if it comes down to it I thought if i want to enjoy my pool on the weekends Thurs/Fri/Sat I schedule it to run from 10pm to 6am, it was 93 degrees last weekend. I think the Pebble Fina I chose (being dark) is causing my heating issue

 

[Neoex]

Neoex
Got that call back. Don't know what your experience was,

Okay, no - You have a an i8PS (I say ps because you have a spa). You got your power relays mixed up a little bit but no worries. It's 8. How many of those 8 are actually in use? That's my question.

Aux 2 is my Water Falls
Aux 3 is my Lights
Aux 4 is my Air Blower
Aux 1,5,6,7 seem to be free

 

[Neoex]

Hi Neoex, I’m in Tulsa and just ordered a Glacier over the weekend. June has certainly started off with a bang here, hasn’t it? It hasn’t shipped yet, but I found two reviews (on TFP, I believe) from others in Tulsa and they give it rave reviews... cooking their pool 8-10 degrees overnight in the middle of summer. Also, I’m told it’s about as loud as a pool pump. I’m integrating it with my EasyTouch, and I figure that the amount of cooling each night will be semi predictable. So, my plan is to just set a schedule to run X hours a night to bring the pool down to the low 80’s by morning - and adjust periodically as needed. If I get it installed before you pull the trigger, you are welcome to come by and have a look!

Let me know if you ordered a 210, I found one in Tulsa Used for a helluva price, its just too big for my application both in gallons and the side of my house

 

[MyAZPool]

Aux 2 is my Water Falls
Aux 3 is my Lights
Aux 4 is my Air Blower
Aux 1,5,6,7 seem to be free

Neoex
Not sure why your installer didn't use Aux1 but no worries. Looks like you have 4 power relays available so you're good there.
If you want to automate the chiller bypass valve (I would), then you will need another IntelliValve. I assume that your two current IntelliValves are connected to the "RETURN" and INTAKE" 3-pin sockets on the daughter card. So if you add a 3rd IntelliValve, you can connect it to 3-pin socket labeled VALVE A on the mothercard.

I sure would like to take a look at that manual that you got with the GPC-25. It may answer some burning questions that I have.
r.

 

[MyAZPool]

Wow!Man thank you!!! i appreciate your help`, their techie guy called me back within 24 hours, I think i have the i8ps in my ciruits i have
Pool
Spa
AUX 1
AUX 2
AUX 3
AUX 4
AUX 5
AUX 6
AUX 7

This seems like 9?

And no the authorized installer was not interested unless I paid him an additional $1,400 on top of the the price I bought it for, just for the equipment. and then wanted $1,000 to install it.

Currnetly my setup has 2 IntelliValves, so yes I would want to put another Intellivalve on after my filter as in the diagram labeled:

AUTOMATING EXISTING POOL SET-UP
View attachment 145684

So my thought was when temp gets to XX(hot) it moves the Intellivalve after the filter to like bleed some?(not sure, how much) water off to the chiller. at the same time it powers on the chiller, and it opens the return Intellivalve to allow it to dump water into the skimmer/suction line.. I am confused on "how open" the valve should be after the filter, it seems to need good pressure to power the unit but it also seems to only take in so much water at a time

It doesn't work like that. The IntelliValve will only move if you tell it to by activating that valve Feature Circuit manually, via a user-interface (touchscreen, mobile phone app or web client), or when that Feature Circuit is included in a Circuit Group (macro) and you activate that macro or it is activated by a schedule. It will not actuate through a temperature reading. The system is not that complex. That is why I talked about human intervention to activate the valve in an earlier post. What you can do is "schedule" that valve to actuate to it's "second" position and return to its "home" position when the schedule has completed. And at the same time, activate the relay that will energize the cooler. That can be done with the use of the "macro" features (Circuit Groups). That's the only way that I know to do it. "Schedule Based" but NOT "Temperature Based" as you are suggesting.

I sure would like to see that chiller manual but it is unavailable online (I wonder why?)
r.
EDIT: BTW, that guy I talked to said to me that the chiller should always be run at night in order to get the water cooled down to an acceptable level. Through the use of some experimentation, I would assume that you could figure out just how long to run it at night in the summer to get it down to an acceptable level for daytime swimming. r..

 

[Neoex]

Yes, Thank you, everything you said makes sense, Thank you for that level of detail it is extremely helpful. As far as why he didnt use AUX 1, I am not sure, he had been installing EasyTouch for the last 10 years and I forced him to use IntelliCenter, I was his first install, I am sure everything is configured half Rear in my system. I think the Glacier system performs better at night because its a fan and its using the difference in ambient temp vs water temp to "fan off" the water. I will try to my hands on the latest chiller manual and I will post it!