GFCI Breaker Tripping

[FLOMOPOOL]

Hi Gang - need your excellent help (again) - thanks so much.

2017 Hayward Super Pump SP2615X20 (2 HP, single speed) running on 230 volts.

Was working fine for the last 8 years including yesterday. I go out this morning at 8 am to make sure pool is all good but pump was not on.

GFCI breaker in pool subpanel was tripped, I assume when the timer went to start up the pump this morning. I reset the breaker and flipped the manual lever on = trip. Reset timer so it would run across on tripper = nothing, no start and no trip.

Brand new Intermatic T104M Mechanical Time Switch and brand new Siemens QPFB 20-amp 2-pole GFCI breaker (model Q220GFP).

Impeller rotates fine.

We had some pretty heavy rain and high winds last night here in Dallas.

Perhaps rain/moisture has gotten into the motor, likely via the cooling slots near the back of the motor where all the electrical connections are located - possible ?

If not that simple answer, what else might it be and how to I diagnose ?

Unfortunately it's raining here again now but I was thinking in the morning I would pull the motor's back cover and hit the end with hairdryer to dry it all up - good idea ?

Thanks again very much for any help/insight/thoughts on this, I really appreciate it.

 

[ajw22]

Moisture in the pump tripping the GFCI.

See what happens once things dry out.

Once it starts tripping the GFCI it will only get worse.

Plan for a new motor or pump.

 

[FLOMOPOOL]

Roger that.

Will dry out in the morning and report back here.

Pump housing and internals are all new but motor is original and has seen better days.

 

[FLOMOPOOL]

What is the difference between the Siemens QPF GFCI breaker and QPFB GFCI breaker ?

They are definitely shaped differently and the pigtails are big time different.

Which one is best for the new Code-required GFCI protection of the pool pump motor ?

 

[ajw22]

QPF and QPFB CBs are functionally the same.

QPFB is a smaller size than QPF.

QPFB only comes in 15A - 30A sizes, while QPF goes up to 60A.

I think Siemens is transitioning to QPFB for 15A to 30A GFCI breakers.

 

[FLOMOPOOL]

Thanks so much ajw22.

Yes, I had read that Siemens GFFI spec sheet but I got confused. I hope you can help me understand.

My QPFB is a 20A breaker but it has two 20A poles, so is it really a 40A breaker ? I guess I don't quite understand how the amperage is rated for 2-pole breakers. Similarly, the breaker for my pool in my main service panel is a 2-pole 40A. Now that breaker does feed the pool subpanel which includes, in addition to the 20A 2-pole pump motor breaker, a 20A breaker for the pool lights and a third 15A breaker for the outdoor receptacle (GFCI) near the pool. So the bigger 40A 2-pole in the main service panel is because there are 3 breaker sin the pool subpanel right ?

Also, the spec sheet says the smallest amperage of the larger QPF breaker is 35A, but I do have a 20A QPF breaker on hand, again, it is a 2-pole. This is the breaker that was in the pool subpanel for the pump motor before I switched it out for thee QFPB breaker. That switch out was okay right ?

Thank you again for helping me understand how the pool electrical works.

 

[ajw22]

My QPFB is a 20A breaker but it has two 20A poles, so is it really a 40A breaker ? I

Nope.

It is a 20A breaker.

If either pole exceeds 20A it will trip.

Similarly, the breaker for my pool in my main service panel is a 2-pole 40A. Now that breaker does feed the pool subpanel which includes, in addition to the 20A 2-pole pump motor breaker, a 20A breaker for the pool lights and a third 15A breaker for the outdoor receptacle (GFCI) near the pool. So the bigger 40A 2-pole in the main service panel is because there are 3 breaker sin the pool subpanel right ?

No.

You do not do an electrical load analysis by adding up the breakers.

The breakers can be very oversized for the actual devices.

Every device has a maximum load. To determine the size of a shared breaker, you need to add up the actual device amp specifications.

Then, the NEC says no breaker shall be loaded with more than 80% of its rating.

So, a 40A breaker can have a maximum of 32A devices connected to it.

A 20A breaker can have a maximum load of 16A.

Also, the spec sheet says the smallest amperage of the larger QPF breaker is 35A, but I do have a 20A QPF breaker on hand, again, it is a 2-pole.

Siemens is transitioning, and there are still QPF breakers available in the smaller amperage.

This is the breaker that was in the pool subpanel for the pump motor before I switched it out for thee QFPB breaker. That switch out was okay right ?

Yes.

Thank you again for helping me understand how the pool electrical works.

Welcome.

 

[ajw22]

Also circuit breakers are there to protect the wires from starting a fire. CBs are not there to protect the devices.

The wires must be the minimum size for the circuit breaker amperage.

 

[FLOMOPOOL]

Turns out the problem was not moisture in the pump, it was with the wiring.

1. The ground wire, which has a u-shaped end connector, was loose; and

2. One of the hot wires, which was connected using the screw there was also loose.

The loose hot wire was a little more of an issue. Between taking it off and putting it back on each time when working on the pump (and over time vibration I assume), the threads on that copper connector plate had become so worn down that the screw and wire not only became loose (leaking voltage and tripping GFCI), but also the screw would not tighten back down. So I snipped the end hook off of the wire and used a blade terminal connector, since the connector plate has 2 blades on it.

All that done, go to fire her up - the tell-tale hummmmm, but at least no more GFCI tripping. Replaced the start capacitor and good as new again.

Moral of the story - those hot wires are always hard to hook to their connector plates using the screws, so save yourself both time and aggravation and attach blade terminal connectors to the end of each wire and use the connector blades.