Getting leak Fixed and Stain removal

delaneybob

Gold Supporter
May 22, 2021
190
Florida
Pool Size
8800
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Hi,
I am getting my pesky leak fixed in a week. I am raising Free choline a bit as we will have to drain the pool a hair to get at the nozzle that is leaking

I plan to do the following
  1. Patch the cracks in tile with epoxy/pool putty
  2. Remove stains ( in progress with a tool i bought that puts Vitamin C at pool floor)
  3. Have pool guys fix leak
  4. Pull the SWG and put a blank in and clean SWG
  5. While SWG is pulled, use a sequentant (proteam metal magic) to get rid of the metal

My SWG is way oversized and taking this opportunity to clean it (it's been a little over a year)
My questions are:
  1. at what point should i put the SWG back in- how long after the metal removal process
  2. Some have said there is metal remover where you can leave the SWG in byut I really don't wnat to do that- my fear is the SWG leaking after cleaning. Do I need to preorder new orings for proper seal?
Thanks!
 
What model SWG are we discussing?

There is no reason to remove the SWG when doing an scorbutic acid treatment to lift iron stains - Ascorbic Acid Treatment - Further Reading


How to Clean a SWG Cell​

You should only clean a SWG cell if it has visible scale on the plates.

Try and clean with the process that will do the least damage to the rare metal plates and then move to more aggressive methods if necessary.

Cleaning a SWG cell with Water​

First try and use strong blasts of water to remove the scale. One member found success using a WaterPik.

Cleaning a SWG cell by Scraping Plates​

You can scrape the plates with a stick, like a Popsicle stick, to remove the scale.

Cleaning a SWG cell with Vingear Acetic Acid​

If the scale is stubborn then use cleaning vinegar (6% acetic acid … available in Home Depot). It’s milder than Muriatic Acid and won’t damage the ruthenium surface. Highly concentrated mineral acids are not good for the transition metal catalysts.

Cleaning a SWG cell with Citric Acid​

On a molar basis citric acid will be “stronger” than either acetic acid or ascorbic acid. So it will produce a solution with lower pH due to more acid protons (H+) being released. This is why your perception is that it works better on scale than vinegar does.[5]

All acids will remove a small amount of material from the ruthenium surface because ruthenium oxide is not stable in acidic conditions. Ruthenium metal itself is highly reactive to air forming ruthenium oxide. In water, a pure ruthenium metal surface will slowly oxidize based on the amount of dissolved oxygen in the water as well as oxidation formed by hydrolysis. So, if you leave a chunk of ruthenium in highly acidic water for a long period of time, it will dissolve.

The key to cleaning calcium scale off the plates is to use an acid that is strong enough to destabilize the carbonate anion (force carbonate to become CO2) and remove the calcium without the acid also etching the ruthenium metal. The conjugate base of the acid matters as well. Chlorides and sulfates do increase the likelihood of reforming ruthenium oxides quickly enough at the ruthenium metal surface such that hydrochloric acid and sulfuric acid would be poor choices. Ascorbate ions from ascorbic acid tend to be anti-oxidants and will less likely increase the repassivation of the metal surface. Acetic acid creates acetate ions which also weakly interact with ruthenium. As far as citrate goes (the conjugate base of citric acid), I'm not entirely certain as I would have to search the literature for it. My guess is it will be more aggressive towards ruthenium than either ascorbic acid or acetic acid but much less aggressive than muriatic acid. Citrate tends to act as a chelating agents to many transitions metals like iron and cobalt so I would expect ruthenium to complex pretty readily with citrate given the many different stable oxidation states that a ruthenium atom can attain. Ascorbates and acetates are weaker chelating agents.

On balance, if you don't happen to have vinegar lying around, and the big bag of citric acid is just sitting there screaming to be used, then you can probably use it without much harm. There's really no need to make highly concentrated solutions. A few % in distilled water will very effectively soften or remove calcium scale. Then just hit it with a garden hose spray to flush it out.

Cleaning a SWG cell with Muriatic Acid​

Cleaning a SWG cell with Muriatic Acid 10:1 diluted solution will remove some of the rare earth coating from the plates and reduce the life of the cell with every cleaning.
 
Thanks but the question was how long after the Metal sequestrant- not Vitamin C. I am not doing a pool wide Vitamin c but rather with an applicator and it works very well- I have coming up with a way to do the walls so I do not affect the pool chemistry too much. The issue i had last time was the pool chemistry (namely Free Cl) took forever and ever to get back in range and it was a race against more algae and had to SLAM repeatedly

Appreciate the guidance on the cleaning.

The model is a Circupool RJ+-60- I thought it was in my profile and added it- hopefully its readable in the profile.
 
Thank you but manufacture disagrees

Where?

Turn off chlorine generator. Disconnect, bypass, or remove Nature 2, Frog, and similar system.

A SWG is not a Nature2, Frog, or similar system. Those are mineral addition systems and the sequestrants will absorb the minerals in those systems.

As it says all you need to do is "Turn off chlorine generator".


Your welcome.
 
Thanks for the clarification. I read it as bypass the SWG similar system). The ingredients in the metal magic isindeed an acid Hydroxyethylidene)di phosphonic acid - per the MDS sheet-

Perhaps the logic is the dilution won't hurt the SWG but would b einterested in the "why" its ok to have it flow thru the SWG vs flow thru with it on. Thanks
 
Thanks for the clarification. I read it as bypass the SWG similar system). The ingredients in the metal magic isindeed an acid Hydroxyethylidene)di phosphonic acid - per the MDS sheet-

That is a mild acid.

You use many mild acids, such as CYA, in the pool without any harm to the SWG.

Perhaps the logic is the dilution won't hurt the SWG but would b einterested in the "why" its ok to have it flow thru the SWG vs flow thru with it on. Thanks

The problem is not with the sequestrant flowing through the SWG.

Did you read Ascorbic Acid Treatment - Further Reading ?

It explains that in an AA treatment you take your FC down to 0. and then after you lift the stains and add the sequestrant you slowly raise your FC back up and watch for any restaining.

Chlorine causes iron to leave solution and deposit on surfaces. For the sequestrant to work you need the iron in solution. Running the SWG and generating chlorine can keep the sequestrant from working.

You should follow our AA process for best results even if you are doing spot application of the ascorbic acid.
 
Thanks for all that- and yes I have done the full AA treatment twice prior but stains return due to the constant adding of Florida hard water. The recovery of the pool FC was well...astronomically difficult. Most of the pool spots are gone and it's only been 1 week.(60% of the pool floor was stained). I have had to augment the SWG with bleach a bit to keep FC up (I don't want to run the SWG at 100%. for a long time ot try ot make up FC)

So plan is to add more salt than needed 2 days prior and raise FC to 15-20ppm the day before the pool leak repair, let the guys drain the pool a bit to get at the nozzles, then refill.

After that, add Metal Magic per instructions, restart SWG, make sure pool chemistry is good then restart any spot stain removal. I am keeping PH right around 7-7.2 through all this. until stains are gone

If this fails I will do the standard AA treatment in the spring before pool weather arrives.

Thanks again
 
Thanks for all that- and yes I have done the full AA treatment twice prior but stains return due to the constant adding of Florida hard water.

"Hard water", whatever that means to you, does not cause stains.

Iron in your water causes stains regardless of how "hard" or "soft" the water is.

Do you know if your fill water has iron in it?

What is the source of your fill water - municipal supply or well water?

If you don't get the iron out of the pool water and use a source of iron free fill water you will have a constant battle with staining.
 

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Hi- hardness means calcium and magnesium typically- which Florida is famous for . That's standard terminology as far as I know. You can go here if you want for more info

Appreciate the help - we can consider this topic closed.
 
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