Future First-Time Owner Operator

[UGottaBKidding]

Hello all. Buying house in NW Chicago burbs. BH (Best Half) wants a heated pool for next summer, so targeting install spring 2025.

Sponsored pool at Son's place in Florida. No hands on time for me, but he sure seems to do a lot of work to maintain with plenty of relatively long trips to the "pool store", and plenty of expense. Not exactly what I want to sign up for? Literally stumbled across TFP, and so far, glad I did. Will be looking for plenty of advice from those that know, versus those that sell.

So far looking at:

12' x 24 foot oval (258 sq ft surface; 1,157 cubic ft; 8,655 gal) insulated wall (Radiant; Ecotherm?) with heater. Semi-in-ground so coping matches existing deck. Planning saltwater, unless convinced otherwise?

Pumps?
Heaters? Gas? Heat pump?
Water quality controller? Is it worth the cost?
How can mechanicals be "hidden" and still accessible?

Already know I'll need a good water test kit...

Just starting the journey. Thanks in advance for patience. If I'm a total pain, say so.

Jeff..

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!

I suggest you read through Pool Care Basics - Trouble Free Pool and even look at a few of our videos TFP-TV - Trouble Free Pool

 

[Newdude]

but he sure seems to do a lot of work to maintain with plenty of relatively long trips to the "pool store", and plenty of expense. Not exactly what I want to sign up for?

We have absolutely *zero* of that. He needs to join too. We'll happily teach you both how to roll on the cheap and easy.

Check this link out. Scroll the whole way through. Just a massive collection of regular Joe/Jane folks who are killing it with little effort. We'll get you there too.

How Clear is TFP Clear?

Welcome to TFP !!!!!

*also, Radiant is a Caddilac of the pool world. I don't think you can go wrong with them. It may be more than you need, but it'll live a long and luxurious life.

 

[Texas Splash]

Looks like Jeff is about to do some shopping. Ha. You can do a search here on the forum for pool shelters or shade and you'll several ideas.

Welcome to TFP!

 

[Newdude]

Pumps?

Jandy / Hayward and Pentair are 'the big 3'. You want a large variable speed pump. That's more important than the brand IMO. Larger pumps move more water at the same RPM, requiring less RPMs, saving electricity and eventually literally paying for themselves.

I'm equally a large cartridge filter fan. Sand and DE will get the job done just as well, but again the key is to go big. Larger filters need less cleaning and they last a generation. The upsize cost is peanuts over 20+ years for the work it'll save you.

Heaters? Gas? Heat pump?

Gas heaters excell at extending the season, but can be costly to use during the season for much less gain.

Heat pumps struggle and cost their most when it's cool, but excel at warming an already warm pool.

In an ideal world, we'd all have one of each. Most of us have to choose which way we'd prefer to use it and deal with its negatives.

Water quality controller? Is it worth the cost?

We have oodles of members and none have found an accurate system. Some forge on anyway, or just like having toys, but if you want it done right, regular life rules still apply. DIY.

How can mechanicals be "hidden" and still accessible?

A small rubbermaid shed, a structure with doors or a lean-to type setup with removable lattice. Lots of ways to skin this cat.

Already know I'll need a good water test kit

Read this post and the following post for a full breakdown of the preferred kits.

Looking to buy a test kit, need advice...

I am looking to buy a test kit. My pool details are provided below: 13,500 Gallons Pebble Finish Jandy 2.7 HP VS FloPro Jandy 200 Sqft Cartridge Filter Jandy TruClear SWG Jandy 103k BTU VersaTemp Heater K-2006C-SALT Test Kit (Planned). I have researched this topic briefly and am interested in...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[UGottaBKidding]

Welcome to the forum!

I suggest you read through Pool Care Basics - Trouble Free Pool and even look at a few of our videos TFP-TV - Trouble Free Pool

Thanks. Already started to peruse all over. Really thought I already knew at least something... only to find I really know absolutely nothing!

 

[Newdude]

only to find I really know absolutely nothing!

Trust me. I blazed that trail FAR and WIDE on behalf of those behind me. I even keep it regularly trimmed. I'm a good friend like that.

 

[UGottaBKidding]

We have absolutely *zero* of that. He needs to join too. We'll happily teach you both how to roll on the cheap and easy.

I will get him to join, but timing is everything and he likely won't "believe" me until I show him. How would I know after all? I don't have a pool! It's definitely in his future, he just doesn't know it yet.

Check this link out. Scroll the whole way through. Just a massive collection of regular Joe/Jane folks who are killing it with little effort. We'll get you there too.

Ha! Already did. Photos are good, but live and in-person is so much better. Just hoping I won't let you all down!

*also, Radiant is a Caddilac of the pool world. I don't think you can go wrong with them. It may be more than you need, but it'll live a long and luxurious life.

From what I've found, insulated pool walls aren't widespread and common, so it looks like my options are going to be limited. Wife want's it heated so up here (northern Illinois) insulated seems a requirement. The one in Florida? Not so much.

Don't know for sure but seems that some have maybe installed foam boards inside of pool walls under the liner? Just seems a bit cheesy to me when there are purpose built models available. Long life is good. Don't mind spending the money if it's going to last.

And thanks for the Welcome!

 

[Newdude]

From what I've found, insulated pool walls aren't widespread and common, so it looks like my options are going to be limited

I don't believe the hype. It's true to a point but insulation only works with a constant heat source. Once both sides acclimate or close to it, it's a moot point.

Where it might help is if you get a couple of cool days and the insulated walls slow down the heat loss for the short term, so there's a little less to make up when it warms up again on day 3. But the R Values are low, (last i saw anyway) so I don't see it making or breaking anything.

but live and in-person is so much better.

I dunno. I have some pretty awesome gifs.






Instead of the pool needing anything because TFP for the win, I made the skimmers suck up the sparkles this day. I have to keep myself busy doing *something* and it ain't poolcare.

 

[UGottaBKidding]

Jandy / Hayward and Pentair are 'the big 3'. You want a large variable speed pump. That's more important than the brand IMO. Larger pumps move more water at the same RPM, requiring less RPMs, saving electricity and eventually literally paying for themselves.

I'm equally a large cartridge filter fan. Sand and DE will get the job done just as well, but again the key is to go big. Larger filters need less cleaning and they last a generation. The upsize cost is peanuts over 20+ years for the work it'll save you.

That's kind of what I've gathered from the world wide web and Google as far as the big 3. I'm certainly in favor of over-sizing, but at some point how big is too big? Pool isn't huge. If I'm calculating right, total volume is about 8600 gal. How fast/often is optimal turnover?

Over-sized filter? Absolutely. Again, when do they become too big?

Gas heaters excell at extending the season, but can be costly to use during the season for much less gain.

Figured we'd go gas, mostly because pool gas usage will be opposite furnace gas usage, so expecting more consistent throughout the year? Whereas heat pump electric would be running at the same time as house AC. I'm sure ComEd approves, but I don't exist to make them rich!

We have oodles of members and none have found an accurate system. Some forge on anyway, or just like having toys, but if you want it done right, regular life rules still apply. DIY.

Understood. Not looking for a "set-it and forget-it", but more something to monitor reasonably close so I don't feel like I always have to be "chimping". Who knows, after you all have trained and educated me, such toys might be completely unnecessary!

A small rubbermaid shed, a structure with doors or a lean-to type setup with removable lattice. Lots of ways to skin this cat.

Want to see what kind of "designs" the contractor(s) can come up with to integrate into the final "landscape". Aesthetically pleasing, with easy access.

Read this post and the following post for a full breakdown of the preferred kits.

Again, already did. Made my choice, for myself and "Da Boy" in Florida. When we were there for a week, I never saw him perform any kind of water tests, so he's getting a gift next time we're there. Won't say for sure, but I'm going to bet once I show him how easy it is, and how much better, he'll be a new member.

 

[UGottaBKidding]

Looks like Jeff is about to do some shopping. Ha. You can do a search here on the forum for pool shelters or shade and you'll several ideas.

Yes, yes I am. Going to be interesting to see if the Wife agrees with my "wants" versus her "needs".

And thanks for the Welcome!

 

[UGottaBKidding]

I don't believe the hype. It's true to a point but insulation only works with a constant heat source. Once both sides acclimate or close to it, it's a moot point.

Hence the heater. Don't want to waste that heat directly early or late in the season straight out to the 55 degree night.

Where it might help is if you get a couple of cool days and the insulated walls slow down the heat loss for the short term, so there's a little less to make up when it warms up again on day 3. But the R Values are low, (last i saw anyway) so I don't see it making or breaking anything.

From what I've seen, 2" foam with some kind of metal on each side (steel; aluminum?); R10. Which isn't horrible considering most home walls are R19. Water retains heat (or cold) much better than air. Will likely only be useful early and late season. Though if it gets sweltering, may help to keep the pool cooler as well?

If we end up going this route, which I'm heavily leaning toward, I'll collect some temp data and post. Then we'll all know, yet again, whether I'm just an idiot.

In our case too, it's probably going to be "semi-in ground"? and seems the walls are better to be backfilled? Guessing here, but the Radiant and Ecotherm can both be semi-in ground or in ground, as well as above ground. Assuming it's because the walls are structurally able to handle the earth around and in contact with them?

I dunno. I have some pretty awesome gifs.

Undeniable. Absolutely gorgeous.

But I still can't jump in to the GIFs...

 

[UGottaBKidding]

Instead of the pool needing anything because TFP for the win, I made the skimmers suck up the sparkles this day. I have to keep myself busy doing *something* and it ain't poolcare.

My Wife will kill me if I make the skimmer suck up the sparkles. She'll probably want to feed them!

Interesting that I read here about aerating to raise pH and mentioned to my wife that we might have to get some kind of "fountain", to which she said she was already going to have a fountain. Good to know it will have a practical use other than to annoy me!...

Yes, that's the objective, to keep busy doing anything without it having to be poolcare. You all are giving me fresh breath that I won't be spending my summer making sure my wife can have her pool time. I'll just know she will.

 

[Newdude]

How fast/often is optimal turnover?

Turnover is a junk stat. If you have an oak tree directly over the pool, you need multiple turnovers. If you have an oak tree over the pool but the wind blows it all to your neighbors yard, you need very few turnovers. That's just the difference between you and your neighbor. Imagine the myriad of possibilities across the land and across the season ? Everybody needs more in the spring and fall and much less mid season.

But if the industry picks a high enough number of turnovers as a requirement, they'll pat themselves on the back that they were right for everyone.

3HP gets dialed down to move the same water at a lower RPM for energy savings. Plenty of small pools have high flow requirements with heaters / cleaners / waterfalls / etc.

Whereas heat pump electric would be running at the same time as house AC. I'm sure ComEd approves, but I don't exist to make them rich!

Lol. HPs should consume less energy during the season. Their energy consumption spikes when it's cool kinda like an AC does in August, but in reverse. Using a HP during the regular season on the other hand is like using an AC in April or September.

Gas heaters are a constant energy draw, whether you need the help to overcome large delta or not. They're worth it when you want to extend the season more than a couple of weeks because the HP falls short there. At that point they are energy hogs, but at least you're getting something for it.

Over-sized filter? Absolutely. Again, when do they become too big?

300 sq ft carts would likely be plenty big, but not a waste.

after you all have trained and educated me, such toys might be completely unnecessary!

I barely lift a finger so that's exactly what I consider them.........toys. Some folks live their toys, I'm not against it at all. But if you get it to improve maintenance, but then need to keep tabs on the Sutro (etc), you might as well be keeping tabs on the pool in the first place.

Assuming it's because the walls are structurally able to handle the earth around and in contact with them?

Correct. They are built like tanks and semi or fully buried above grounds are beefier. I salute them while believing much of the insulation talk is a marketing gimmick.

Interesting that I read here about aerating to raise pH and mentioned to my wife that we might have to get some kind of "fountain"

Just the opposite. The PH will rise on its own and the fountain will accelerate it. Get one because you want one but only run it when you are out there to enjoy it. No need to have it work against you the rest of the times. And case and point that small pools don't necessarily change the large pump needs if the system is just as complicated as a large pool.