Frozen water around pump from cycling between pool to spa

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pcm2a

pcm2a

0
Aug 25, 2017
260
Mt Juliet, Tn
The woes of first pool ownership and winter! Whenever I switch from pool to spa during the summer the main pump shuts off for 30 seconds while the valves turn. Out of the pool pump, at the lid to the basket, some water would come out. My pool guy said it is releasing some pressure when the pump turns off. I never gave it another thought....until I went around there and saw that there is a good amount of frozen water over there. Every 20-30 minutes the freeze protection is cycling between pool to spa mode. So each time that happens some water comes out and then that water is freezing. Is this really normal?

Picture: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Somewhat related, does my pool really need to be cycling from pool to spa mode every 30 minutes? When it is in pool mode with freeze protection both pool and spa pumps are on. The water goes into the spa and spills over into the pool and the pool jets are also on. It seems like just pool mode would be sufficient. I looked around in the controller configuration but could't see a way to do that.
 
It is not normal for any water to come out of the pump strainer lid. The gasket either needs replaced or lubed and the lid tightened.

If the freeze protect is running for a long time is best to adjust your valves so that some water is going to both the pool and spa as well as some suction from both. Do you have automation? What type is it? Add to your signature if you do.

If you have actuated valves, you can adjust them using the toggle switches so they are all open and then put the toggle in the neutral position turning the actuator off. Then I would bypass automation and set the pump to run continuously until your freezing weather is over.

Take care.
 
The pool is automated by an aqua logic controller, what should I put in my signature for that? It does not have any chlorination automation hooked up, it is only automating pumps, heater, lights. The controller is switching from pool to spa mode every 30 minutes in freeze mode but in both modes both pumps are running.

Aqua logic controller: Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Better view of the whole pump area: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

I have several more questions trying to understand all this...

1. It seems like I should fix the water leak problem asap. Before opening the pumps basket I will turn off the pumps but should I also turn the valves for the input to the main pump? Then I can open the basket and inspect the seal then tighten it back up. Local pool store probably stocks the seal if I need one.

2. In my configuration I do not think there is any purpose for the spa pump except to push extra water into the spa when in spa mode. If that is correct is there any benefit of this pump even running during freezing conditions?

3. Your suggestion of setting the value to neutral sounds great if that will prevent the automation from flipping the valve when it changes from pool to spa mode. I see two bummers with turning the automation off. The biggest one is if there is a power outage. When there is a power outage, even a small flicker, the pool pumps remain off unless the automation is on. With the automation on the freeze protection or timers will turn everything back on. The other issue would be on days where it's freezing at night and not freezing during the day. I may not be around to manually turn things on and off.

Maybe the easiest solution is to let both pumps run on automation while setting the value so it doesn't turn into spa mode, even when the controller puts it into spa mode.
 
Just add the Aqua Logic Controller to your signature.

You turn the pump off and you can close the suction valves to remove your pump lid. Is the pump below the pool water level?

Is the spa pump seperate or a booster pump? If separate, it needs to run for freeze protection. If a booster, then the main pump is pushing water through it (or should be) for freeze protection.

You can leave the pump on the controller if you like, just set the actuators to off once you have used them to move all the valves to partially open. Even if the controller goes through the motions of pool/spa switch, the valve actuators are off so they will not move.

Hope that helps --
 
I would take the lid and seal to the pool store to see if they have one.

Must be very degraded to have water coming out of it. Does it have air being sucked in when the pump is running?
 
How would I know if air is being sucked into it. Once the pump is primed to the top it is nice and calm with no bubbles. The problem with taking the lid and seal down is that it is 14 degrees outside and I need to drive about 15 minutes to the pool store. In the 30 minutes since I had the top off when I went back out to take it off again and it was all frozen.

Inside of the lid: Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Basket: Imgur: The magic of the Internet
 
If it is not sucking air then something else is going on. I am not familiar with that pump so need to have someone else chime in.

If the ice build up is not harming anything leave it as it is until it warms up.

Sorry I am not of more help.
 

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Yeah for sure when you turn the pump off a bunch of water sprays from the lid. I've seen it do it a hundred times. They couldn't pinpoint the seal at the pool store without the lid so I'm about to take it off, lay a blanket over it and drive down there.
 
Zoomed to the closest pool store and out of a wall of gaskets they did not have one that matched. Came back home and put it back on. No worse for wear except a lot more ice had formed on the surface of the pool. No ice in the pump housing basket that I laid a blanket over.

Looks almost identical to this Hayward housing: Hayward Northstar 1998 to 2007 Parts - INYOPools.com

Update, this post sounds just like my problem too: Leaky Strainer Cover on Northstar Pump
 
I have the same issue on my pump and also on my filter o-ring. Mine will only leak when the temperature gets down in the low 20's. I think it is caused by o-ring shrinking or the o-ring hardening caused by the cold. I just let it leak and when it warms up it melts.
 
AftonJeeper said:
In the first picture is there an icicle coming down from the input union on the front of the pump? Do you know for sure that the water is leaking from the lid? It looks like it could be the union leaking.
Click to expand...
I have been investigating this new drip coming from the actuator. While the pump is running there is no drip and when the pumps are off there is no drip. By random chance I saw the issue. Normally when you switch from pool to spa mode all of the pumps turn off for 30 seconds, the actuators turn and the pumps come on. Not so in freeze protection mode. When it changes from pool to spa the pumps remain on while the actuators turn. This is when it drips. Must be hard to suck water through and close the valve at the same time.
 
Use Magic Lube on the o ring, I doubt you need a new one. It’s also normal for some filter lids to “puke” during stop. There is a huge pressure build up that needs to be released. It’s not a problem to really worry about.
As for your freeze protect, I’m assuming your hot tub is higher than the pool from your description of equipment, if so then you are best to let it cycle so both pumps come on. If it’s at the same level and sharing the same pump, then cracking all valves 1/2 way and taking them off the automation controller would work to stop your problem.
 
It’s also normal for some filter lids to “puke” during stop. There is a huge pressure build up that needs to be released. It’s not a problem to really worry about.
Click to expand...

I am struggling to understand how that can be. The lid is 'air tight'. Otherwise you have a suction side air leak.

I must be missing something ......
 
Anything is only air tight to a particular pressure, go over that pressure and it’s no longer air tight as it will escape at the weakest point. The pressure of the system running is very low compared to the pressure spike when then the pump stops abruptly.
You only get a vacuum leak when the pressure outside is greater than inside, so all things being equal if you created a vacuum in the pump that was the same pressure as the spike of the pump stopping abruptly, yes it would suck in air. But that’s not happening.
 
It's a NorthStar pump. The lid does not always make a good seal. With the pump on, the suction pulls the lid down and makes a seal.

However, when the pump turns off, the suction turns to pressure backfeeding from the filter, which pushes the lid up and water squirts out.

It's not uncommon for pump lids to squirt a little when turned off, but if the lid is secure, it really shouldn't happen.

If the pump is 2003 or newer, the oring is a SPX4000TS.

A new gasket might help. Using silicone lube will also help.
 
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