Freezing weather and..

[mcleod]

First pool. Lordy! And it is Dang cold now. My first question has to do with the freeze protection circuit and the pump in general. It's in the mid-twenties, the pump has been engaged since yesterday, and in the basket (with the window) that's behind the returns, there is very little water. I've cleared the skimmers with no change in the volume of water. Is this an issue? Tried to turn off the pump for a moment but it fails to respond (stays on). Is this due to the freeze protection circuit? In freezing weather does one run the pup continously? Happy New Year.

 

[HermanTX]

Do you have automation system? You should be able to put it in Service Mode to manual turn on/off the pump.

Please update your signature under Settings

 

[Jimrahbe]

In freezing weather does one run the pup continously?

Mc,

Kind of the whole idea of freeze protection.. Keep the water moving and it will not freeze.

In the basket (with the window) that's behind the returns,

Mc,

I am not sure what window you are talking about?? Are we talking about the pump lid basket or ??? A pic would help a lot.

Either water is flowing, or it is not. What is your filter pressure? I know it is cold but stick your hand in front of a return for a few seconds and see if you have good water flow or not.

What kind of pump do you have? A single speed, 2-speed or variable speed?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

He's baa-aack!

Please welcome my friend @mcleod to the forum, and take good care of him. Intro pleasantries aside, he's got an emergency brewing as I write.

He's inherited a 20K vinyl in-ground with tab feeder. We've corrected his CYA with a no-drain water exchange (was 80, now 40), and I had him remove all the tabs. He was tackling the green with a SLAM. Apparently it's been warm enough in Texas to turn the pool. But now he's got freezing weather and his pump and skimmers stopped circulating.

He returned late last night only to find his pump volute empty. He troubleshot the pipes to the skimmers just now (there are two) and they appear to be blocked (they were working fine yesterday). I suspect he might not have seated his pump lid o-ring correctly. His two-wheel mechanical timer box has a freeze-protection gizmo. I'm guessing the freeze protection kicked on but the pump lost prime and then sucked itself dry. And I'm guessing now that some portion of his suction-side plumbing is blocked with ice? He's probably got a 10" frost line.

This is what he's working on now before it gets too dark and cold tonight.

He's rigging a sump pump with a splitter on the output to two hoses. I suggested he keep those hoses underwater and feed them into the two skimmer mouths. I'm thinking the hoses under water will keep them from freezing. And driving pool water into each skimmer will maybe keep them from freezing, too. Water exiting the skimmer mouths onto the surface will keep the surface moving enough to inhibit any ice forming there.

Meanwhile I suggested seeing if he could warm up the suction-side manifold enough to unfreeze the blockage, which I'm hoping is just the first few inches underground, by the pump. Space heater? Electric blanket? Pouring warm (NOT HOT) water directly into the volute?

I am definitely out of my element here, as I've never had to deal with any of this in CA. Has anybody ever tried anything like that? Any suggestions? I tried to impart the importance to mcleod of getting that pump running tonight.

 

[Dirk]

Jim, sorry, I started another thread before I saw this one. I've posted on mcleod's behalf over there, as he's got his hands full this evening. Some questions asked here are answered there:

Texas Freeze Emergency!

He's baa-aack! ;) Please welcome my friend @mcleod to the forum, and take good care of him. Intro pleasantries aside, he's got an emergency brewing as I write. He's inherited a 20K vinyl in-ground with tab feeder. We've corrected his CYA with a no-drain water exchange (was 80, now 40), and I...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Leebo]

Dirk,
Are you able to talk him through draining his pad? It sounds like he’s maybe in a jab and a partial winterization may help.

 

[Kaylee34]

Ideas:
Heat tape. Available at Home Depot or Lowe’s. Check the specs so you don’t melt anything but if there’s a thermostatic control you should be fine there.

Electric space heater. Tent the manifold and pump with a tarp or blanket and push warm air in there. Doesn’t have to be a tight tent, just enough to keep most of the warm air in. Keep warm air blowing on what you think might be frozen.

If you have a large plastic tub and an old incandescent light bulb, you can rig that also. We always kept a 40 watt bulb burning in our pump house. Nothing ever froze.

Disconnect the suction side plumbing and flush with warm water. Might help thaw.

You might be best served by opening the drain plugs on the equipment, thawing everything as best you can and leaving everything open while warming a little for the night.

People that know a lot more than I do will help.

 

[Dirk]

Lee, no, I have no idea (other than the goofy ones I mentioned) on how to deal with this situation...

You think he should drain filter and pump? How bad will an overnight freeze be to his underground plumbing (full of water). And his skimmers?

 

[Kaylee34]

Oh and if anyone has a heat gun or you can get one from HD or Lowe’s, there’s your thawing ticket.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks all for the ideas, I'll keep feeding them to mcleod as they come in...

 

[Leebo]

I’m gonna assume he’s around Houston. Looking at the weather it appears temps will be back around 75° in a day or two. If it were I I’d first cover the pad in a tarp and add a heat lamp. This will protect the vital parts and keep things out of the elements. Underground pipes are a pain to freeze in the mild temps, so don’t stress them much just yet.

 

[wireform]

To rush up the defrost process he should just tent up the suspect area (smaller is better) and use an electric heater. Give it some time it'll go.

 

[Dirk]

Thanks Lee, wireform, yes he mentioned this freeze is a short one. I'll have him tent the pad and/or manifold and heat it up. That sounds simple enough. He could crawl in there if it gets to cold while he's working!

 

[wireform]

If he has a heater with a bypass let him go for it and drain the heater core.

 

[mcleod]

Have just come in from the cold. On the phone w Dirk. Fingers a bit stiff. Will respond to one and all shortly

 

[Dirk]

Last I heard... he'd built a warmer over the suction manifold and was going to work on expanding it to the entire pad. No news since... More tomorrow, I suspect. Thanks all for the quick responses!

 

[mcleod]

I’m gonna assume he’s around Houston. Looking at the weather it appears temps will be back around 75° in a day or two. If it were I I’d first cover the pad in a tarp and add a heat lamp. This will protect the vital parts and keep things out of the elements. Underground pipes are a pain to freeze in the mild temps, so don’t stress them much just yet.

I'm in East Texas near Mt. Pleasant. Thought I was in the balmy part of TX. LOL

 

[mcleod]

Update. Pad is covered with a tarp and furniture pad. Heater in place, focused on the suction pipes and pump. Pump does not turn on. Presume it is the freeze protection over riding it.(Intermatic Model PF1202T) Don't see how to override it inorder to activate the pump. When power is on there is a hum that comes and goes. Have turned off the power to the pump. Temperature is 31 now with a high of 47. Low tonight to be 19. Currently have a submersible pump attached to two hose to churn the water. Hoses focused at the skimmers.

What to do next? Do I attempt to activate the pump?

 

[Dirk]

Anyone know how these Intermatic freeze protection components work? I would suspect they will override OFF, but not inhibit powering ON, right?

If the pump hums when power is applied, I'm thinking possible trouble with the pump. McLeod, when you turned on the pump, was it full of water? I suppose pumps can freeze.

Anyone: what are the symptoms of a frozen pump? Or a burned out pump? I believe it ran dry at one point. Will they shut themselves off when they run dry? Or just burn out?

 

[mcleod]

Anyone know how these Intermatic freeze protection components work? I would suspect they will override OFF, but not inhibit powering ON, right?

If the pump hums when power is applied, I'm thinking possible trouble with the pump. McLeod, when you turned on the pump, was it full of water? I suppose pumps can freeze.

Anyone: what are the symptoms of a frozen pump? Or a burned out pump? I believe it ran dry at one point. Will they shut themselves off when they run dry? Or just burn out?

When pump ws turned on initially a few days back it had water. May have run dry in that first overnight freeze.